Noted.

No spelling it with an 'R' doesn't really help....unless you are saying you pronounce it with an 'R' sound as well.

What I have always understood is that sticking an 'R' in the spelling is an English thing to indicate a long 'A' sound - sort of like AHHH instead of A

That's right Fluffs. I only pronounce it that way. I don't spell it with the R in 

The problem is that both 'ar' and 'aa' to me indicates the same sound. So saying 'we pronounce it marster and 'they pronounce it maaster leaves me flummoxed as both those spellings produce the same sound, in my book.

*Gives up*

Ha ha ha we not still going over this??  LOL

FLUFFY - its the way Americans say it as opposed to the classic English pronounciation

Yeah?

I pronounce master as 'Mar stir', but a similar word as 'Mass debate'.

If that helps. 

Fluffy is saying that your 'marster' and 'maaster' spellings are pronounced the same.

I agree. 

The Merkins say it more like Mazda. 

Arrrrr as opposed to aah

Any better?

No! 

The 'Arrrrrr' sounds like a West Country burr, but the 'arrrrr' and 'aah' have the same vowel sounds.

Like Maastricht.

This is getting tricky - lol

Its like when English people say can't

With an 'r' sound

Yes, just like that, but not with lots of rrrrrrrrs! 

I say 'can' with a short vowel sound, but 'can't' with a long one.

i.e. like carn't.

Yep thats it !!!

I can understand when i trained as a teacher why i never read the book "Accent, dialect and the school"

Far too complicated for me

I know that's what you're meaning, what I was trying to point out was that TO ME the way that you were trying to explain it was NOT demonstrating a difference in sound.

Thank you Blizzie, that is exactly it. There is no difference in the sound there for me.

PS I thought Merkins were hats!

Close, but no cigar! 

Unless Bill Clinton's around. 

We say that here in the East Mids and we also call ice lollys suckers 

Och aye, that's a common expression.

We say 'on me tod' dahn sarf too. 

We also say 'on me/yer jacks' as in 'on my/your jack jones' - alone.

FLUFFY - its CARRRRRN'T as in erm . . . .

Let me get back to you . . .

FAVE GEORDIE DIALECT WORD  . . .

Hockle - mean saliva or spit

So are you saying you pronounce can't with an 'R' sound? 'Cos I pronounce 'erm' with an 'r' sound , So if I pronounced the one the same way as the other, there would be an 'r' sound.

Ha ha ha

(i hate you)

You don't seem to be grasping my problem here.

Phoneticised English doesn't help a lot because  English and Scottish pronunciation is different in many areas. So, in some cases, the same group of letters can produce a different sound. Even though we theoretically speak the same language.

I can usually understand people no prob but the Irish was really really strong (drunk) Irish so as the night wore on I was having more trouble. But boy was it fun

I doth dew know wot you mean cos . . .

The can't in Scottish and Irish is defo where Americans get their pronounciation of CAN'T

Where as English pronounciation has a strong R sound after the letter a

I'm grasping your problem and that's what this whole thread is about, is it not? Dialects and differences in pronunciation within a shared language (English in this instance). Renton says he hears things one way, you say you hear things another. He says he hears a difference, where you say there is none. There's not much of an argument here, or a problem, just a collection of shared and different experiences 

Although my association with  the English is not great or frequent, I have to say that I have never noticed this 'rrrr' tendency in those I have had dealings with.

Originally Posted by Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing:

You don't seem to be grasping my problem here.

Phoneticised English doesn't help a lot because  English and Scottish pronunciation is different in many areas. So, in some cases, the same group of letters can produce a different sound. Even though we theoretically speak the same language.

I'm grasping your problem and that's what this whole thread is about, is it not? Dialects and differences in pronunciation within a shared language (English in this instance). Renton says he hears things one way, you say you hear things another. He says he hears a difference, where you say there is none. There's not much of an argument here, or a problem, just a collection of shared and different experiences

I didn't see it as an argument as such, just that I was trying to grasp what difference Renton was trying to demonstrate. However, this post by Renton "Whereas English pronounciation has a strong R sound after the letter a" has cleared it up.

Just shows though that we non-English can speak the English language better than the English themselves. WE don't stick 'Rs' into words where there aren't any!

*hides from Renton*

I'm glad 

YAY - we got there

Arms Aloft 

Ive got a strange accent. Im soft west end Glaswegian with a lot of southern English. So the Scottish think im English and the English think im Scottish.

I'm from Clydebank originally and now live in Lanarkshire. I've been mistaken for an Aberdonian and an Australian.

My husband moved around a lot as an RAF child then spent many years in the South before he returned up North to his roots. His accent is undefinable really - I call him a mongrel.

I tried to explain this to our french friends when they asked about his accent - I looked up mongrel in the French dictionary - it translates as bastard 

I'm not sure how to explain my accent....though I was mistaken for a south african a few days ago when putting on my telephone voice...