Nice one! Now that kind of behaviour really is "selfish" - why do women like her think the rest of us should pay for her to sort out her family planning? Mental..

ah yes, I remember her

I'm 36 and have no kids, however, I don't feel like I'm too old, I just think I should need to consider it in the next few years (if I ever get maternal)

For me there are alot of things to be taken into consideration such as how to support a child etc, I wouldn't want to give up work completely and wonder if I could afford it TBH with childcare and the rest of it...it's a shame that alot of people bring Children into the world and have no intention of ever working and expect to be supported.

The thing is, I have never been that maternal, though I am beginning to think about it more as I'm getting older....it really is a big decision (for me anyway), I'm scared of getting too old and then getting maternal but don't want to bring life into the world just for the sake of it

I'm a bit like you too DiD

It really is one of the biggest decisions I think i could ever make, and that decison will be partly based on pratical things such as finances etc.and whether I could actually offer a child everything he/she needs emotionally as well....I'm sick of feckless teens pumping them out and epecting the state to keep them.  My Parents instilled a work ethic into me, you don't work, you don't have, simple as...sadly, that's not the case for many these days, it makes me want to weep....

This is a prime example of what I mean....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2875689/Keith-MacDonald-has-seven-kids-by-seven-different-girls.html

It is the biggest decision you will ever make.

That's why I was glad it was made for me. Not much you can do about it when you are holding a positive test.

I reckon I would have put it off for ages otherwise.

You know angelic, I do sometimes wish the decision had been made for me too

yes, same here... I have never really felt ready, or wanted them yet.. though admittedly, its not as terrifying now as it was say 5 years ago Though, I have been left wondering if I'm getting a bit past it now I mean I'm 27 now, I might feel ready by 30?

You're all individuals. You're all different.

Something I'd like to ask Hilary Mantel is, if 14-year-olds are to be encouraged to have babies, can I assume she and others of the same view will be willing to cough up all the extra tax needed to pay for it? Because I certainly won't.

14-year-olds don't work, have never paid taxes into the system and therefore shouldn't expect anything back in the way of child benefits, family tax credits, etc. Why on earth should I pay for them to breed?

omg sazza 27?  thats sooo past it

dafty

when i was younger i thought i always wanted to have 2 or 3 kids by the time i was 30, when i got to 30 i would say 35 etc. etc. i was 40 last week and still have none and don't want any - it just never felt like the right time

saying that, my best friend had her first child aged almost 37 and her second last year aged 39 - she says she is glad she left it til she was older - she has had a good career but is not too old to be a great mum (her OH is a couple of years older) in fact, the first baby was due on his 40th birthday but was born a week later

thats how its made me feel

Everyone's different tho mate, there are alot of factors that decide if the time is right to have a child or not, age is just a small part

I'm glad I did it the way I did (not that my son was 'tried for') but that has alot to do with how my life is now too...I have split from their Dad, the option of meeting someone else I would want to have children with at 36 is pretty slim....you have everything infront of you and are ejoying your life as it is now...its all good x

Flippineck, Saz, it's not exactly "grey waffle" time yet

grey waffle!!! omg, hahahaha!!

Thanks ika, I sometimes think by the time I decide whether I want any or not I'll be too old Mind you before now I definitely didn't... just don't tell B ok

Hahaha!! Careful Sazza, feeling broody is such a strong feeling, when it gets hold of you, watch out
I still get the odd wave of it....I bawled like a tit watching that programme on C4 last night, just seeing how the couples were once their babies were born, realising that I share those memories with someone wh doesnt really deserve them...then it's like 'I wont have any more babies...wahhh'

Then I remember pre eclampsia and no sleep and it all fades away...

there ya go, hang onto that Also remember diva tantrums and whatnot

Diva tantrums....once experienced never forgotten

awww, that couple who'd had the IVF were really sweet... but she'd been there for 4 days or summat

hey, if I ever have any, you are more than welcome to baby sit

getting a dog cured any residual broody feelings for me.

I don't envy the sensible people for whom this is a decision.   I cannot imagine when in my life I would have felt it was a good time to have a baby.  

I'm glad now that I was irresponsible & pregnancy was something that happened to me rather than something I decided to do!

I love bubbas...spesh when they're new and you can sniff their wobbly heads...

puppies smell better

The cagefighters might let you... 

I didnt think of that

Saz, DiD, Karma, Barney...I never thought I'd want to have a baby, especially as I got older, but I had a tiny maternal pang just before I hit 38 and fell pregnant with Hetty immediately. I cannot believe how maternal I am with her, she's the best thing that's ever happened to me and I'm honestly glad I left it until later. I'm much more relaxed and patient than I would have been in my twenties and we're going to be able to give her more, both in terms of financial security and our time. I never made any decisions about waiting, it just happened this way. My only concern is that because of our age we won't be around as long for her but that gives us an incentive to keep fitter and healthier to make sure we're here for her as long as possible. If women were not meant to have babies when they were in their 30's and 40's then their bodies wouldn't let them.

I don't particularly agree with this but I have heard people say (Queenie included ) that if older woman were not supposed to have babies then they wouldn't be able to but then if 14 year olds were not supposed to then their bodies wouldn't let them either

What do people think of that then?

I'd just like to clarify I'm not saying that older woman shouldn't have kids but if that's an argument for older women what about younger women?

Just playing devil's advocate I reckon you should have them when you feel is best.

And when you can afford them.
And when you're mature enough to be a proper parent to them.
Which rules out most 14-year-olds.

But the vast, vast majority of 14 year olds would be unlikely to be in long term and committed relationships.  Whilst no-one can deny that relationships do break down, surely it is better for a woman to decide to have a baby when she is at least intending to make a life long commitment to the baby's father, even if it doesn't turn out that way?

Oh I agree Growly I'm not sure I worded my post correctly. What I mean is surely 14 year olds shouldn't be able to have kids if they are not supposed to? I'm sure it made sense years and years ago when life expectancy was lower but nowadays I don't agree much like everyone else.

I was just wondering how this can be used as a point for older women and not younger

I think that was the point of the article.

We have set up society, so that education is the norm up until 16, 18, or into your early twenties, and then women are expected to follow a career path for the next 'however many' years. She is saying that this doesn't take into account women's natural desire to have babies and we tend to view those who do have babies early, as wasting their lives, and/or education.

There's no doubt that our ancestors would have been capable of running their caves and looking after children at a very early age. Our insistence that children stay in education until a certain age has changed society, but we shouldn't be surprised that some young women follow their natural instincts, still.

Then again, our cave-dwelling ancestors couldn't expect to live much beyond 25-30,
so they had to get the sprogging done as early as possible. I don't care how much these girls (or Hilary Mantel) want to blame it on 'natural instinct'. Most of us have evolved a bit since those times.

*leaves thread, realising she no longer meets the criteria required to have her kids*

Watchoo on about, Dittybird?

I'm not so sure Bliz, I  strongly suspect that what is behind Mantel's view is that she found out she couldn't have children 'cos of her endometriosis and therefore wishes that she'd had them earlier, when she could. If that's the case then I hardly think it's a valid argument for saying girls are ready for kids at 14. And why 14? If she's saying it should be ok to have kids from when our periods start then I should have started having them at 10
I do sympathise with Mantel, I found out at 29 that I couldn't have children due to gynaecological probs. Do I wish I could have had them - of course I do, it really, really saddens me that I couldn't. Do I wish that I'd had them as a teen with no way of financially supporting them, (unless I'd been with a much older guy who would do so,) and at a time when I wasn't mature enough to look after them - no way.
I can see some of Mantel's points but really can't go along with the promotion of the idea that it's ok for 14yr old girls to have children.

aw nuffin really....  have just had a hissy fit with me dad... I am wanting to give my brother a slap, my son is being an arse and the dog is barking at a bloody sparrow.

so I got a bit arsey for no reason in here!

 

I know its a discussion on ideals as opposed to individuals x x