quote:

Originally posted by slimfern:

quote:

Originally posted by Bagel Queen:

quote:

Originally posted by slimfern:
It is a shame when we realise that the person we hold in great esteem has flaws..but everyone has them....Even my Dad.. (although he would never admit it)

I have too many flaws to mention and I have fallen off a many a pedastal but hey ho

Is that before or after the 'Many a drink'..

I dont drink fern...not had a drop for over 15 years, had to give it up and the flaws I had then were BIG flaws

quote:

Originally posted by Veggieburger:

quote:

Originally posted by hal:

That is very good analysis rekaf.....that is what I wondered sometimes, was there no one there to tell him its wrong to sleep in the same bed with children he's not related to,(even related to ...is a no no most of the time after a certain age), his brothers, mother etc.

And then all that plastic surgery....why? why? why?

I was also chatting about this last night with some friends and agree with you both.
We came to the conclusion that when you are that famous you must be surrounded by a group of 'yes men' who will just agree with you or seek to facilitate whatever behaviour you indulge in.

Regardless of whether you have sexual designs on children or not, sleeping with them like he admitted he did was inappropriate in the least

Hi Veggie! Of course you're right. Its not the norm to do that. But I do believe (again imo)that because he wasnt doing anything he shouldnt have been, he naively thought it ok. He thought a lot of odd things ok; Like having the chimp, etc etc. Its just a very sad ending for someone who never led a "normal" life. I also think his father has a lot to answer for when it comes to the plastic surgery.

quote:

Originally posted by Veggieburger:

quote:

Originally posted by hal:

That is very good analysis rekaf.....that is what I wondered sometimes, was there no one there to tell him its wrong to sleep in the same bed with children he's not related to,(even related to ...is a no no most of the time after a certain age), his brothers, mother etc.

And then all that plastic surgery....why? why? why?

I was also chatting about this last night with some friends and agree with you both.
We came to the conclusion that when you are that famous you must be surrounded by a group of 'yes men' who will just agree with you or seek to facilitate whatever behaviour you indulge in.

Regardless of whether you have sexual designs on children or not, sleeping with them like he admitted he did was inappropriate in the least

you are probably right there veggie, and when you are told you can do no wrong 24/7 you end up believing it, and it may have been the case that if you actually stood up and say 'no' then you are thrown out and replaced with someone who says 'yes'.....money talks.....

quote:

Originally posted by Bagel Queen:

quote:

Originally posted by slimfern:

quote:

Originally posted by Bagel Queen:

quote:

Originally posted by slimfern:
It is a shame when we realise that the person we hold in great esteem has flaws..but everyone has them....Even my Dad.. (although he would never admit it)

I have too many flaws to mention and I have fallen off a many a pedastal but hey ho

Is that before or after the 'Many a drink'..

I dont drink fern...not had a drop for over 15 years, had to give it up and the flaws I had then were BIG flaws

oops just got it..doh! thats a big flaw of mine..not getting jokes till after

I liked some of his songs...

quote:

Originally posted by Rekaf:

quote:

Originally posted by Veggieburger:

quote:

Originally posted by hal:

That is very good analysis rekaf.....that is what I wondered sometimes, was there no one there to tell him its wrong to sleep in the same bed with children he's not related to,(even related to ...is a no no most of the time after a certain age), his brothers, mother etc.

And then all that plastic surgery....why? why? why?

I was also chatting about this last night with some friends and agree with you both.
We came to the conclusion that when you are that famous you must be surrounded by a group of 'yes men' who will just agree with you or seek to facilitate whatever behaviour you indulge in.

Regardless of whether you have sexual designs on children or not, sleeping with them like he admitted he did was inappropriate in the least

you are probably right there veggie, and when you are told you can do no wrong 24/7 you end up believing it, and it may have been the case that if you actually stood up and say 'no' then you are thrown out and replaced with someone who says 'yes'.....money talks.....

His family at least? or are they all still gaga for money till the end?
They protest his innocence, when in the eyes of common sense, should not one of them said somefink.

quote:

Originally posted by Rekaf:

quote:

Originally posted by Veggieburger:

I was also chatting about this last night with some friends and agree with you both.
We came to the conclusion that when you are that famous you must be surrounded by a group of 'yes men' who will just agree with you or seek to facilitate whatever behaviour you indulge in.

Regardless of whether you have sexual designs on children or not, sleeping with them like he admitted he did was inappropriate in the least

you are probably right there veggie, and when you are told you can do no wrong 24/7 you end up believing it, and it may have been the case that if you actually stood up and say 'no' then you are thrown out and replaced with someone who says 'yes'.....money talks.....

yeah, that is exactly what we thought. In that world it's either my way or the highway. If you don't want to do whatever it is then there will always be someone else who will.
And I would imagine that the hangers on around him thought "It's your funeral mate" (no pun intended btw) if you get into trouble for your lifestyle.

But even so, paedophilia is one of those 'out there' crimes that everyone who does not practice it is really appalled at. If there really was serious misconduct going on I can't believe that more of the staff wouldn't have come forward over the years

I really don't know what to think tbh.

Totts - one of my mates put forward that argument yesterday. That if you are doing nothing wrong then why should you change your lifestyle just to accomodate people who think you are. It's their problem not yours etc.

I just think that he should have realised that he was setting himself up.
And there is a more serious point to his having children sleeping in his bed like that.
Those children were being conditioned to think that that kind of behaviour was normal. That would, imo, make it more likely that they would sleep in the bed of some other non related adult - and then they could be abused.

I can understand the boy's family allegedly accepting £20 million....if they had been advised they would be up against the best lawyers money can buy and stood not a hope in hell of winning.

I find it more suspicious that the money was allegedly offered in the first place.

MJ hung himself on the Martin bashir interview. And a lot of people who had previously given him the benfit of the doubt, found themselves unable to do so.

quote:

Originally posted by pretty~cocoa~eyes:
This world is a wicked place full of heartless people... It saddens me a great deal... Hopefully the Jacksons dont see these blogs...

That's your world. My world is an amazing place, full of amazing things. You're not a Jehovah Witness, are you? You seem to have a very bleak outlook on life.

I doubt the Jacksons are busy reading blogs just now. I'm sure they have more important things to do and I expect they've heard it all before while he was alive. That's showbiz for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Little Miss Spurs:
I also think that taking money instead of getting justice for your own child, if you truly believe such a crime was committed would not even enter your head. No matter how much you were offered.

If a crime was commited then they got an enormous, life-changing amount of money and a devastating revenge. That beats the sterile notion of justice in my mind, and I think most victims and their supporters want revenge rather than justice.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by pretty~cocoa~eyes:
This world is a wicked place full of heartless people... It saddens me a great deal... Hopefully the Jacksons dont see these blogs...

That's your world. My world is an amazing place, full of amazing things. You're not a Jehovah Witness, are you? You seem to have a very bleak outlook on life.

I doubt the Jacksons are busy reading blogs just now. I'm sure they have more important things to do and I expect they've heard it all before while he was alive. That's showbiz for you.

I have read through some of this thread (not all of it). the way i see it is ......there really is a difference in sharing a bed for sleeping and a bed for sex. Why does it always follow that if you share a bed with someone that there is automatically sexual intent/desire/behaviour?

IMO ......there's nothing nicer than snuggling down with my grandchildren or brining them into bed with me if they've woken up upset or disturbed by a bad dream

I really dont claim to know what happened in MJ's bed but .............sharing a bed doesn't automatically make you a paedophile.

Loius Thereaux says MJ has a cinema at Neverland which had bedrooms with windows overlooking the screen, instead of reclining chairs in an auditorium like most cinemas. What's that all about?

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Loius Thereaux says MJ has a cinema at Neverland which had bedrooms with windows overlooking the screen, instead of reclining chairs in an auditorium like most cinemas. What's that all about?

Having the money to do it I would think. It's only like watching TV in bed isn't it?

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:
I have read through some of this thread (not all of it). the way i see it is ......there really is a difference in sharing a bed for sleeping and a bed for sex. Why does it always follow that if you share a bed with someone that there is automatically sexual intent/desire/behaviour?

IMO ......there's nothing nicer than snuggling down with my grandchildren or brining them into bed with me if they've woken up upset or disturbed by a bad dream

I really dont claim to know what happened in MJ's bed but .............sharing a bed doesn't automatically make you a paedophile.

I agree that bed doesn't necessarily mean sexual activity but you snuggling down with your grandchildren is not the same as your grandchildren snuggling down with a 40 odd year old man who barely knows them is it?

quote:

Originally posted by Queen of the High Teas:

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:
I have read through some of this thread (not all of it). the way i see it is ......there really is a difference in sharing a bed for sleeping and a bed for sex. Why does it always follow that if you share a bed with someone that there is automatically sexual intent/desire/behaviour?

IMO ......there's nothing nicer than snuggling down with my grandchildren or brining them into bed with me if they've woken up upset or disturbed by a bad dream

I really dont claim to know what happened in MJ's bed but .............sharing a bed doesn't automatically make you a paedophile.

I agree that bed doesn't necessarily mean sexual activity but you snuggling down with your grandchildren is not the same as your grandchildren snuggling down with a 40 odd year old man who barely knows them is it?

I see your point but I dont think for one moment he was a 'normal' 40 year old ........he was a child at heart. personally I dont think he barely knew the kids involved ......they were like his mates .........if he barely knew them how in the hell did their parents let them stay over?

I'm sorry as I didn't avidly follow the MJ court case and I could be well out of order here but ...........hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I can't see him as a paedo myself - just a sad individual who was reliving a childhood that he never had.

The man is dead there are a lot of heart broken people out there People should back off

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:
I see your point but I dont think for one moment he was a 'normal' 40 year old ........he was a child at heart.

It's not what was in his heart but what was in his pants that counts. He may well have been mentally stuck in his childhood but he had the body of a 40 year, including the sex drive I expect. That's not to say it was pointing at boys, of course, just that his mental quirks are hardly a defence or explanation on their own.

quote:

Originally posted by madkitten:
The man is dead there are a lot of heart broken people out there People should back off

I really dont see why to be honest. I'm not being disrespectful in any way but ..............are we not free to discuss? Heartbroken people dont have to read it .............alternatively non heartbroken people may like the option to debate it.

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:

quote:

Originally posted by madkitten:
The man is dead there are a lot of heart broken people out there People should back off

I really dont see why to be honest. I'm not being disrespectful in any way but ..............are we not free to discuss? Heartbroken people dont have to read it .............alternatively non heartbroken people may like the option to debate it.

A bit of respect wont harm just for a while

I think it's dead disrespectful to try to make people respect someone just coz you like them

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
He may well have been mentally stuck in his childhood but he had the body of a 40 year, including the sex drive I expect.

Exactly ........he may well have had a sex drive but thankfully it's the minority that sexually crave children ..............personally I believe that he was looking for 'mates' to relive his childhood with no sexual intent. I will accept that I may be naive but that's how I see it.

I have got no sodding idea who I am supposed to respect or not respect and why

*Has nervous breakdown*

quote:

Originally posted by madkitten:
A bit of respect wont harm just for a while

It didn't do this bloke any good ...

http://www.break.com/userconte...AIRPLANE-489730.html]Respect

People earn respect when they are alive, not recieve it unquestioningly when they die.

quote:

Originally posted by madkitten:

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:

quote:

Originally posted by madkitten:
The man is dead there are a lot of heart broken people out there People should back off

I really dont see why to be honest. I'm not being disrespectful in any way but ..............are we not free to discuss? Heartbroken people dont have to read it .............alternatively non heartbroken people may like the option to debate it.

A bit of respect wont harm just for a while

In the grand scale of things .........I dont see this thread as doing much harm.

There is a BB appreciation thread of MJ but ...............it's topical - it's good to discuss IMO.

This whole respect thing can be taken too far ..........where else do we go to discuss the legend/enigma that was MJ?

quote:

Originally posted by Ennis Del Beadle:
I have got no sodding idea who I am supposed to respect or not respect and why

*Has nervous breakdown*

Just respect everyone who has ever died. I think that covers it.

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:

quote:

Originally posted by Queen of the High Teas:

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:
I have read through some of this thread (not all of it). the way i see it is ......there really is a difference in sharing a bed for sleeping and a bed for sex. Why does it always follow that if you share a bed with someone that there is automatically sexual intent/desire/behaviour?

IMO ......there's nothing nicer than snuggling down with my grandchildren or brining them into bed with me if they've woken up upset or disturbed by a bad dream

I really dont claim to know what happened in MJ's bed but .............sharing a bed doesn't automatically make you a paedophile.

I agree that bed doesn't necessarily mean sexual activity but you snuggling down with your grandchildren is not the same as your grandchildren snuggling down with a 40 odd year old man who barely knows them is it?

I see your point but I dont think for one moment he was a 'normal' 40 year old ........he was a child at heart. personally I dont think he barely knew the kids involved ......they were like his mates .........if he barely knew them how in the hell did their parents let them stay over?

I'm sorry as I didn't avidly follow the MJ court case and I could be well out of order here but ...........hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I can't see him as a paedo myself - just a sad individual who was reliving a childhood that he never had.

I don't profess to know the truth about it, I doubt we'll ever know what really happened there tbh. But I do think that when all is said and done he WAS an adult and should have known better. You're right, I don't think he was normal, but that's kind of the point. If an ordinary Joe who lived down the road acted like a man child, I would be very surprised to see people wanting their kids anywhere near him, let alone sharing a bed. I know I would never have let my child sleep in a bed with him or any other adult they weren't immediately related to. I don't see why the fact that he was rich, famous and talented should make him be judged any differently to others. Don't get me wrong, I'm not for one second saying I think MJ was a paedo. I actually don't. But I do think he got away with some very questionable aspects of his life simply because of who he was.

quote:

Originally posted by electric6:
I think it's dead disrespectful to try to make people respect someone just coz you like them

Who siad i like him??? respect for the people who are upset

quote:

Originally posted by fz:
People earn respect when they are alive, not recieve it unquestioningly when they die.

Very true. i can't see why it's off limits to discuss all aspects of MJ's life ...................should we just pretend it was all about the music?

quote:

Originally posted by Ennis Del Beadle:
I have got no sodding idea who I am supposed to respect or not respect and why

*Has nervous breakdown*

respek me innit

oh gawd I feel like I am in groundhog day ...*puts respect on by A franklin*

quote:

Originally posted by fz:
People earn respect when they are alive, not recieve it unquestioningly when they die.

Respect for the dead without hypocrisy is possible.

Just keep stump within certain time limit.
Of course glorious it is for those who had already earned that respect whilst they are still alive.

quote:

Originally posted by fz:

quote:

Originally posted by Ennis Del Beadle:
I have got no sodding idea who I am supposed to respect or not respect and why

*Has nervous breakdown*

Just respect everyone who has ever died. I think that covers it.

Jeffrey Dahmer

quote:

Just respect everyone who has ever died. I think that covers it.

Yes LOl I had to respect Jade

one thing I DO know is that at THIS moment in time the bloke in question doesnt give a TOSS about who does or doesnt respect him.

quote:

Originally posted by Bagel Queen:
oh gawd I feel like I am in groundhog day ...*puts respect on by A franklin*

it's either deja vu or a glitch in the Matrix Bages

At least Ennis will be spared the next 20 pages by his breakdown

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Queen of the High If an ordinary Joe who lived down the road acted like a man child, I would be very surprised to see people wanting their kids anywhere near him, let alone sharing a bed. QUOTE]


Absoloutely ........................but people keep harping on about - if it was the bloke down the road he'd never have got away with it .Got away with what exactly ............sharing a bed with a kid - it's not against the law is it?

And for the record I obviously wouldn't have let my kids have any part of that ..........some parents did ........maybe they had ulterior motives .............who knows?

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by Little Miss Spurs:
I also think that taking money instead of getting justice for your own child, if you truly believe such a crime was committed would not even enter your head. No matter how much you were offered.

If a crime was commited then they got an enormous, life-changing amount of money and a devastating revenge. That beats the sterile notion of justice in my mind, and I think most victims and their supporters want revenge rather than justice.

Sorry, imo thats total nonsense. No parent if they had anything about them would take money instead of justice. Noway. No how. Never.never.never. I have had this conversation with many of my friends and colleagues. We all have children We ALL without exception said the same. We would not accept a penny IF our child had been abused.

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:
I have read through some of this thread (not all of it). the way i see it is ......there really is a difference in sharing a bed for sleeping and a bed for sex. Why does it always follow that if you share a bed with someone that there is automatically sexual intent/desire/behaviour?

IMO ......there's nothing nicer than snuggling down with my grandchildren or brining them into bed with me if they've woken up upset or disturbed by a bad dream

I really dont claim to know what happened in MJ's bed but .............sharing a bed doesn't automatically make you a paedophile.

and in MJ' case, I believe that to be true!