quote:

Originally posted by MrsB:
Halls of Residence like the students have should be sufficient...room for desk, bed and spare clothes...and a shared kitchen!!!

That's all very well, until you have to fit a family in there.

Unless you only want single people with no kids in parliament!

quote:

Originally posted by Lockes no 1 fan:

quote:

Originally posted by bozzimacoo:
don't forget high interest rates

mmmm was that 15% or 16%

sorry lockie, that was refering to jennys post:

I don't know if you are talking to me, but people are employed in order to help the finances of the company they work for. Now, whether that company is a government department, or county council department, or Woolworth's, or Curry's doesn't make any real difference.

If the company is earning less money than it pays out, it cannot act as if it is a charity and keep people on because they will not be "glib" about letting them go. If they don't have enough money to pay all the people, then some people will have to go, in order for the company to stay in the black, and not collapse.

Now, the hundred-year-old Woolworth's was not in this position. It had to let EVERYBODY go because it just did not have the money to recover. Other companies are letting SOME people go, in order to try and recover.

If companies keep people on just because they feel sorry for them and detest the stigma their employees will feel if they go on the dole, the companies will collapse completely, like Woolworth's.

This country is heading for bankruptcy, like Woolworth's. If it does not save money, it will become bankrupt. And if it becomes bankrupt, it will not have the money to fund the dole queues, or the NHS, or education. Everything will have to be paid for privately, like it was before the development of our magnificent welfare state in the 1940s.

It will become like some of those former Eastern Bloc countries, like Bulgaria or Romania. No pavements, bad roads, a shoddy health service, low wages, bad housing, because there will just not be the money to pay for it all which we take for granted today.

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
I reckon we've still got a fair few fixed rate mortgages due to switch to SVR in the next year or two. That could rack up a lot of mortgage defaults for people mortgaged to the hilt or whose jobs are a bit risky. That could create a bit of a domino effect as those defaults will go onto the bank balance sheets and enough of those could endanger the banks again.

And our contributions to the EU coffers are due to rise sharply after the next General Election, a little straw in the wind maybe that Gordon thinks he's not going to win.

What's a billion or three here and there under New Labour? They'll just borrow that too from our kids and grandkids in the unlikely event that they retain power. Of course, if we pull out of the EU then it'll cost us a bloody fortune at the start I reckon and there will be quite a few jobs, 100s of Ks or possibly a million, lost in the changeover.

quote:

Originally posted by jennywren:

quote:

Originally posted by love greek sunsets:

quote:

Originally posted by jennywren:

quote:

Originally posted by love greek sunsets:

I saw a Greek sunset only last night!

you lucky thing

I'll see another one tonight, and next week. I live in Greece and agree with you, Greek sunsets are beautiful. In fact, I might go down to my favourite spot in a couple of hours, and watch one!!

now I do feel jellus, where abouts are you if you want to share?

quote:

Originally posted by bozzimacoo:
It will become like some of those former Eastern Bloc countries, like Bulgaria or Romania. No pavements, bad roads, a shoddy health service, low wages, bad housing, because there will just not be the money to pay for it all which we take for granted today.

Sounds just like Leeds or Warrington to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:

But I'm not talking about spending money you dont have (ie. credit cards). I'm talking of spending money legitimately earned ........ we need people to spend to ensure we get out of the recession hence the lowering of VAT. Putting people on the dole isn't going to encourage spending and it's public money that pays for it.

People who have cash to spend (not loans or credit cards) will spend in the same way they always have. They will go shopping and buy handbags and CDs, pots of paint and grass seed. They will go to restaurants and buy insurance.

But these people will also Save For The Future. Now, it is The Future which is the problem. Because pensions are almost down the drain and becoming increasingly unsafe, those that have spare cash are more likely to save for their own future, to supplement their whittled-down pensions, than they are to spend on paint and handbags.

In the meantime, those who are losing jobs or having their wages cut, or who are losing their homes through negative equity, will have less money to spend.

What this ideal is saying is, the rich, or those with spare cash, should spend their way through the recession to save the country from bankruptcy, rather than save for their own futures.

Is that not another form of stealth tax?

quote:

Originally posted by Blizzie:

quote:

Originally posted by MrsB:
Halls of Residence like the students have should be sufficient...room for desk, bed and spare clothes...and a shared kitchen!!!

That's all very well, until you have to fit a family in there.

Unless you only want single people with no kids in parliament!

But why do they need to move their families to London?? Surely their main home should be in their constiuency....

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
I reckon we've still got a fair few fixed rate mortgages due to switch to SVR in the next year or two. That could rack up a lot of mortgage defaults for people mortgaged to the hilt or whose jobs are a bit risky. That could create a bit of a domino effect as those defaults will go onto the bank balance sheets and enough of those could endanger the banks again.

And our contributions to the EU coffers are due to rise sharply after the next General Election, a little straw in the wind maybe that Gordon thinks he's not going to win.

What's a billion or three here and there under New Labour? They'll just borrow that too from our kids and grandkids in the unlikely event that they retain power. Of course, if we pull out of the EU then it'll cost us a bloody fortune at the start I reckon and there will be quite a few jobs, 100s of Ks or possibly a million, lost in the changeover.

I just think Daniel J that we have to re-build our home markets, produce goods here, keep our people employed, keep money circulating in our domestic markets and trade on a worldwide basis, which is the thing that most people voted for over Europe in the first place, to trade with them, not give away our fishing grounds and our ability to make our own laws.

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

quote:

Originally posted by jennywren:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

quote:

Originally posted by jennywren:
This is the worst situation the country has ever been in, bar the 1930s crisis.

My Mum and Dad would disagree and would draw your attention to 1940. Luckily Churchill kept his nerve even though the scratters kept banging on about him being unelected.

World War II was caused by the global economic crisis of the 1930s and could be seen as an extension of it. The war itself wasn't an economic crisis and can't be compared with today's peacetime crisis.

No it wasn't.
Apart from that I am replying to someone who said worst crisis.
If you want a worst economic crisis since 1930 then think North East 1979 onwards. Thatcher etc etc. We haven't recovered from it yet.

That was the North-east but it wasn't national. Thatcher has a lot to answer for.

quote:

Originally posted by bozzimacoo:

quote:

Originally posted by Lockes no 1 fan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bozzimacoo:
don't forget high interest rates

mmmm was that 15% or 16%

sorry lockie, that was refering to jennys post:

no worries I still got my point across

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:
But I'm not talking about spending money you dont have (ie. credit cards). I'm talking of spending money legitimately earned ........ we need people to spend to ensure we get out of the recession hence the lowering of VAT. Putting people on the dole isn't going to encourage spending and it's public money that pays for it.

It's public money keeping lots of people in jobs at the moment, including the public sector. Parts of the public sector are cost centres. The government is spending way way more than it receives in tax revenues at the moment.

Also, it might be in everyone's best interests as a whole that people spend the money they earn but it's an entirely rational decision for individuals to not spend if they think their jobs could possibly be at risk.

I got up to page 13 then spilled a full cup of tea all over my keyboard, mouse and lap.


I don't even know if the computer is still working (keyboard must be) so um...testing?

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by jennywren:
And that is one of the reasons this recession has not even begun to bite yet.

I reckon we've still got a fair few fixed rate mortgages due to switch to SVR in the next year or two. That could rack up a lot of mortgage defaults for people mortgaged to the hilt or whose jobs are a bit risky. That could create a bit of a domino effect as those defaults will go onto the bank balance sheets and enough of those could endanger the banks again.

Indeedy.

According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

All politicians as a general rule (all rules having exceptions) are corrupt. At least that's how I see it.

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:

quote:

Originally posted by forgetmenot:

spot on, raise your voice and keep repeating it, people have forgotten to easilly about thta evil thatcherism, or are to young to remember.

I am old enough to remember the Thatcher years. Evil? Evil, in what way? What about the Labour years before she came into power, or have you forgotten those halcyon years?

Oh yes! I remember bread being 17p one week (out of my £15 weekly wage) and rising to about 23p the next week. Might not be quite the right figures, but it was a huge rise, and, put simply, I could not afford to buy bread under Labour. I was a Labour voter then, but never since. And I've never been so hungry since, either.

Crunchy! hahahaha

quote:

Originally posted by MrsB:

quote:

Originally posted by Blizzie:

quote:

Originally posted by MrsB:
Halls of Residence like the students have should be sufficient...room for desk, bed and spare clothes...and a shared kitchen!!!

That's all very well, until you have to fit a family in there.

Unless you only want single people with no kids in parliament!

But why do they need to move their families to London?? Surely their main home should be in their constiuency....

Because they spend most of their time at Westminster, either in Parliament or in the offices where the country is actually run, in Committee Rooms.

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

oh the daily mail it Must be true

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
I reckon we've still got a fair few fixed rate mortgages due to switch to SVR in the next year or two. That could rack up a lot of mortgage defaults for people mortgaged to the hilt or whose jobs are a bit risky. That could create a bit of a domino effect as those defaults will go onto the bank balance sheets and enough of those could endanger the banks again.

And our contributions to the EU coffers are due to rise sharply after the next General Election, a little straw in the wind maybe that Gordon thinks he's not going to win.

What's a billion or three here and there under New Labour? They'll just borrow that too from our kids and grandkids in the unlikely event that they retain power. Of course, if we pull out of the EU then it'll cost us a bloody fortune at the start I reckon and there will be quite a few jobs, 100s of Ks or possibly a million, lost in the changeover.

I just think Daniel J that we have to re-build our home markets, produce goods here, keep our people employed, keep money circulating in our domestic markets and trade on a worldwide basis, which is the thing that most people voted for over Europe in the first place, to trade with them, not give away our fishing grounds and our ability to make our own laws.

Spot-on, Squiggle.

quote:

Originally posted by jennywren:

quote:

Originally posted by MrsB:

quote:

Originally posted by Blizzie:

quote:

Originally posted by MrsB:
Halls of Residence like the students have should be sufficient...room for desk, bed and spare clothes...and a shared kitchen!!!

That's all very well, until you have to fit a family in there.

Unless you only want single people with no kids in parliament!

But why do they need to move their families to London?? Surely their main home should be in their constiuency....

Because they spend most of their time at Westminster, either in Parliament or in the offices where the country is actually run, in Committee Rooms.

But thousands of families spend the week apart because of work commitments....they don't have the luxury of second homes...why should they???

I know why they are in London!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Ogilvy:
All politicians as a general rule (all rules having exceptions) are corrupt. At least that's how I see it.

British politicians are poodles compared to those in some other countries.

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

Absolutely rubbish. Total Lies. I read the Daily Mail and this is JUST NOT TRUE. If this is your idea of a joke I for one do not find it funny.

quote:

Originally posted by MrsB:

quote:

Originally posted by Blizzie:

quote:

Originally posted by MrsB:
Halls of Residence like the students have should be sufficient...room for desk, bed and spare clothes...and a shared kitchen!!!

That's all very well, until you have to fit a family in there.

Unless you only want single people with no kids in parliament!

But why do they need to move their families to London?? Surely their main home should be in their constiuency....

Because they are expected to sit in Parliament, or attend cabinet meetings, or run the country even, and living hundreds of miles away could make it a little difficult, either for their work, or their family life.

That's why the system of second homes was set up.

Shame that it became a way to feather those nests, for some, but a system is needed, if we don't want to limit our choices of politicians.

We don't want to go back to only having those with 'family money' in parliament.

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:
I just think Daniel J that we have to re-build our home markets, produce goods here, keep our people employed, keep money circulating in our domestic markets and trade on a worldwide basis, which is the thing that most people voted for over Europe in the first place, to trade with them, not give away our fishing grounds and our ability to make our own laws.

Why should the rest of Europe trade for what we have if we're outside of Europe? What do we produce that's unique? We'd probably have to sell it cheaper too and we'd be at the mercy (as we are anyway) of exchange rates only without a European lever. I bet we'd have less negotiating power with the WTO although I'm not that familiar with what we do there. We'd have less standing generally in the world, I expect.

Also, the EU is based on a principle that decisions are made at the appropriate level of competence. That's upheld in the Lisbon Treaty. We have the ability to make our own laws now and that shouldn't really change at the national/regional level. It just means we would have to negotiate as an entirely separate country with a much larger body that has the power to influence our way of life from the outside instead of with us from under an umbrello. In other words, we get back our nominal sovereignty and give up our actual power.

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

Absolutely rubbish. Total Lies. I read the Daily Mail and this is JUST NOT TRUE. If this is your idea of a joke I for one do not find it funny.

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

Absolutely rubbish. Total Lies. I read the Daily Mail and this is JUST NOT TRUE. If this is your idea of a joke I for one do not find it funny.

Surely ANYONE could see that his tongue was firmly in his cheek there?

Oh dear

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

Absolutely rubbish. Total Lies. I read the Daily Mail and this is JUST NOT TRUE. If this is your idea of a joke I for one do not find it funny.

P.S. I'm a youth of today.

quote:

Originally posted by electric6:

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

Absolutely rubbish. Total Lies. I read the Daily Mail and this is JUST NOT TRUE. If this is your idea of a joke I for one do not find it funny.

Surely ANYONE could see that his tongue was firmly in his cheek there?

Oh dear

so firmly it was peeking out

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:
I just think Daniel J that we have to re-build our home markets, produce goods here, keep our people employed, keep money circulating in our domestic markets and trade on a worldwide basis, which is the thing that most people voted for over Europe in the first place, to trade with them, not give away our fishing grounds and our ability to make our own laws.

Why should the rest of Europe trade for what we have if we're outside of Europe? What do we produce that's unique? We'd probably have to sell it cheaper too and we'd be at the mercy (as we are anyway) of exchange rates only without a European lever. I bet we'd have less negotiating power with the WTO although I'm not that familiar with what we do there. We'd have less standing generally in the world, I expect.

Also, the EU is based on a principle that decisions are made at the appropriate level of competence. That's upheld in the Lisbon Treaty. We have the ability to make our own laws now and that shouldn't really change at the national/regional level. It just means we would have to negotiate as an entirely separate country with a much larger body that has the power to influence our way of life from the outside instead of with us from under an umbrello. In other words, we get back our nominal sovereignty and give up our actual power.

You actually believe we have power in Europe now the way things are We import more from Europe now than we export. They would miss us greatly as an export market. We have great trading links with the wider Commonwealth. If we are manufacturing again then its up to our salesmen to go out and find markets for our goods.

quote:

Originally posted by electric6:

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

Absolutely rubbish. Total Lies. I read the Daily Mail and this is JUST NOT TRUE. If this is your idea of a joke I for one do not find it funny.

Surely ANYONE could see that his tongue was firmly in his cheek there?

Oh dear

obviously not

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

Not necessarily porsches. Three porsches or one ferrari in red.

quote:

Originally posted by electric6:

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

Absolutely rubbish. Total Lies. I read the Daily Mail and this is JUST NOT TRUE. If this is your idea of a joke I for one do not find it funny.

Surely ANYONE could see that his tongue was firmly in his cheek there?

Oh dear

Oh dear indeed try making a similar joke about the Guardian and see how you get on then.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:
I just think Daniel J that we have to re-build our home markets, produce goods here, keep our people employed, keep money circulating in our domestic markets and trade on a worldwide basis, which is the thing that most people voted for over Europe in the first place, to trade with them, not give away our fishing grounds and our ability to make our own laws.

Why should the rest of Europe trade for what we have if we're outside of Europe? What do we produce that's unique? We'd probably have to sell it cheaper too and we'd be at the mercy (as we are anyway) of exchange rates only without a European lever. I bet we'd have less negotiating power with the WTO although I'm not that familiar with what we do there. We'd have less standing generally in the world, I expect.

Also, the EU is based on a principle that decisions are made at the appropriate level of competence. That's upheld in the Lisbon Treaty. We have the ability to make our own laws now and that shouldn't really change at the national/regional level. It just means we would have to negotiate as an entirely separate country with a much larger body that has the power to influence our way of life from the outside instead of with us from under an umbrello. In other words, we get back our nominal sovereignty and give up our actual power.

surely though we are in a unique position in europe since we have a massive and diverse commonwealth we could trade with which has been sidelined in the euro love in, and there is nothing to prevent us from still being part of the eec whilst withdrawing completely from the political process, we could easily become the commonwealths gateway into europe which would benefit us whist we also benefited from being politicly independent.

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by electric6:

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

Absolutely rubbish. Total Lies. I read the Daily Mail and this is JUST NOT TRUE. If this is your idea of a joke I for one do not find it funny.

Surely ANYONE could see that his tongue was firmly in his cheek there?

Oh dear

Oh dear indeed try making a similar joke about the Guardian and see how you get on then.

oh do grow up......its a NEWSPAPER FFS

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by electric6:

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:

quote:

Originally posted by Crunchy Nuts:
According to my Grandad's the Daily Mail that I was browsing through the other day, the conservatives have been going without expenses that they had a right to claim, just for the good of the country in this current climate because that's the kind of warm hearted people they are
But the Labours have been setting up private facebook groups on their swanky laptops (claimed for of course along with their 800GBps internet and egyptian porn site subscriptions) to boast about how much they've claimed and have set up a little league table in one of these groups which works in 1 point per thousand claimed with the winner winning 3 porsches (claimed for of course) They've even been tweeting Barack Obama and Demi Moore, telling them all about it. All right under the noses of all the poor people of this country

Absolutely rubbish. Total Lies. I read the Daily Mail and this is JUST NOT TRUE. If this is your idea of a joke I for one do not find it funny.

Surely ANYONE could see that his tongue was firmly in his cheek there?

Oh dear

Oh dear indeed try making a similar joke about the Guardian and see how you get on then.

squiggle what does ur sig say?

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:
Oh dear indeed try making a similar joke about the Guardian and see how you get on then.

I didn't write it in the first place

Come now the lad was only having a laugh...

quote:

Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:
I just think Daniel J that we have to re-build our home markets, produce goods here, keep our people employed, keep money circulating in our domestic markets and trade on a worldwide basis, which is the thing that most people voted for over Europe in the first place, to trade with them, not give away our fishing grounds and our ability to make our own laws.

Why should the rest of Europe trade for what we have if we're outside of Europe? What do we produce that's unique? We'd probably have to sell it cheaper too and we'd be at the mercy (as we are anyway) of exchange rates only without a European lever. I bet we'd have less negotiating power with the WTO although I'm not that familiar with what we do there. We'd have less standing generally in the world, I expect.

Also, the EU is based on a principle that decisions are made at the appropriate level of competence. That's upheld in the Lisbon Treaty. We have the ability to make our own laws now and that shouldn't really change at the national/regional level. It just means we would have to negotiate as an entirely separate country with a much larger body that has the power to influence our way of life from the outside instead of with us from under an umbrello. In other words, we get back our nominal sovereignty and give up our actual power.

surely though we are in a unique position in europe since we have a massive and diverse commonwealth we could trade with which has been sidelined in the euro love in, and there is nothing to prevent us from still being part of the eec whilst withdrawing completely from the political process, we could easily become the commonwealths gateway into europe which would benefit us whist we also benefited from being politicly independent.

Well said and we do have a tradition of being Allied with the most powerful nation in the world, which is more than you can say for some members of Europe.

quote:

Originally posted by squiggle:
You actually believe we have power in Europe now the way things are We import more from Europe now than we export. They would miss us greatly as an export market. We have great trading links with the wider Commonwealth. If we are manufacturing again then its up to our salesmen to go out and find markets for our goods.

Undoubtedly we have power.

I'm about to finish my lunch break but I'll leave a final thought. How do we make the transition from EU member to non EU country? I think it would cost us an absolute fortune and throw loads of people onto the dole queue. We could plan it over some years I suppose but now is surely a terrible time. The last thing we need is uncertainty as far as the sovereign wealth funds and the other international lenders are concerned who are keeping us afloat at the moment.