quote:

Originally posted by subatomic partygirl:

quote:

Originally posted by sciencewasrobbed:

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Originally posted by subatomic partygirl:

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Originally posted by sciencewasrobbed:

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Originally posted by subatomic partygirl:

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Originally posted by sciencewasrobbed:
The grandparents will in all likelihood bring up the kids now... Great They did such a good job the first time...

Whatever happened to the mother? Debbie someone, wasn't it?

I think she was paid off and handed the kids to Jackson after they were born. There were noises that she wanted custody now, but think she is being paid off again..

Are they even his kids, Sub? That's the thing... not one of them look like him..

I've only seen one pic of them without the veils. You do have a point. Who knows? (Well, he and Debbie do).

Just incase you wanted to see sub,

Blimey, they really don't look like him, do they? They do have a look of each other though.

Thanks for that SWR.

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Originally posted by Cagney:

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Originally posted by mrsstipe:

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Originally posted by Cagney:
I've had the jokes all weekend. People/family members texting me even though they know I was a HUGE fan. THAT is disrespectful. I don't find one of them funny. I'm not demanding anyone respects him themselves but I am demanding they respect my right to feel sad and not want to read crass jokes. The "get over it" "god he was only a singer" "it's not like you knew him" comments. AGAIN disrespectful to me and I feel it's the same on a forum. If someone is telling you how sad it makes them feel then nobody should go into a thread posting jokes and telling them to get over it etc. There is a time and a place.

Aw Cagney, family & friends can be funny like that, I've had it myself when I was sad about a death that they didn't find important.

I think I was vocal enough that they now know not to do it again

I've felt a bit deflated since it happened. Not weeping and wailing...just deflated. Does that make sense? His music has so many memories attached to it for me. My friend is getting married soon and we were due to start learning the Thriller dance for her wedding reception

I told my friends/family that if they want to slag him or make jokes find someone else to listen. Same on the forum IMO. Find a thread where there are likeminded people

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Originally posted by subatomic partygirl:
Ta, Cagney. Do you happen to know how old the kids are?

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Originally posted by hal:
poor man..was he really ever a man?

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Originally posted by bozzimacoo:

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Originally posted by hal:
poor man..was he really ever a man?

he was a human being that was born male.

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Originally posted by Cagney:

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Originally posted by subatomic partygirl:
Ta, Cagney. Do you happen to know how old the kids are?

12, 11 and 7. All still very young

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Originally posted by Cagney:

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Originally posted by subatomic partygirl:
Ta, Cagney. Do you happen to know how old the kids are?

12, 11 and 7. All still very young

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Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Sending you texts was a bit out of order in my opinion as that's a one-to-one thing. This is a public forum with a diverse audience. Not the same thing at all. Threads are public and open for comment. I choose whether I comment, other forum members don't do that for me, and I won't be censored by what they personally think is appropriate. That's the moderator's job. If it's not an abusive comment then it falls into the realms of forum over-sensitivity to me if people want to censor it.

quote:

Originally posted by Cagney:


But if you see a thread titled "for MJ fans" isn't it common decency to NOT go into that thread and make derogatory comments? If that's what some want to do then make a thread titled "for non MJ fans" and leave the comments there. No?

Grief should never be belittled whether it is a family member or a music idol. A death can bring about all kinds of bad memories for people. You don't necessarily need to respect the FM but surely to kick someone when they are feeling down is not on. Best to say nothing IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:

quote:

Originally posted by Cagney:


But if you see a thread titled "for MJ fans" isn't it common decency to NOT go into that thread and make derogatory comments? If that's what some want to do then make a thread titled "for non MJ fans" and leave the comments there. No?

Grief should never be belittled whether it is a family member or a music idol. A death can bring about all kinds of bad memories for people. You don't necessarily need to respect the FM but surely to kick someone when they are feeling down is not on. Best to say nothing IMO.

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Originally posted by Cagney:

It's not rocket science eh?

IMO it's antagonistic.

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Originally posted by pussycatj:
[It's never dignified when people are scarabbling to make money is it?

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Originally posted by Garage Joe:

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Originally posted by pussycatj:
[It's never dignified when people are scarabbling to make money is it?

Have to do it all the time GJ, but I think i'm quite dignified

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Originally posted by Liverpoollass:

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Originally posted by Cagney:

It's not rocket science eh?

IMO it's antagonistic.

Nope it's not.

Yeah I feel it is antagonistic too, but hey ho forum life eh?

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Originally posted by Cagney:

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Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Sending you texts was a bit out of order in my opinion as that's a one-to-one thing. This is a public forum with a diverse audience. Not the same thing at all. Threads are public and open for comment. I choose whether I comment, other forum members don't do that for me, and I won't be censored by what they personally think is appropriate. That's the moderator's job. If it's not an abusive comment then it falls into the realms of forum over-sensitivity to me if people want to censor it.

But if you see a thread titled "for MJ fans" isn't it common decency to NOT go into that thread and make derogatory comments? If that's what some want to do then make a thread titled "for non MJ fans" and leave the comments there. No?

Grief should never be belittled whether it is a family member or a music idol. A death can bring about all kinds of bad memories for people. You don't necessarily need to respect the FM but surely to kick someone when they are feeling down is not on. Best to say nothing IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Cagney:

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:

quote:

Originally posted by Cagney:


But if you see a thread titled "for MJ fans" isn't it common decency to NOT go into that thread and make derogatory comments? If that's what some want to do then make a thread titled "for non MJ fans" and leave the comments there. No?

Grief should never be belittled whether it is a family member or a music idol. A death can bring about all kinds of bad memories for people. You don't necessarily need to respect the FM but surely to kick someone when they are feeling down is not on. Best to say nothing IMO.

It's not rocket science eh?

IMO it's antagonistic.

quote:

Originally posted by Cagney:
But if you see a thread titled "for MJ fans" isn't it common decency to NOT go into that thread and make derogatory comments? If that's what some want to do then make a thread titled "for non MJ fans" and leave the comments there. No?

Grief should never be belittled whether it is a family member or a music idol. A death can bring about all kinds of bad memories for people. You don't necessarily need to respect the FM but surely to kick someone when they are feeling down is not on. Best to say nothing IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by sciencewasrobbed:

quote:

Originally posted by Cagney:

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Originally posted by Liverpoollass:

quote:

Originally posted by Cagney:


But if you see a thread titled "for MJ fans" isn't it common decency to NOT go into that thread and make derogatory comments? If that's what some want to do then make a thread titled "for non MJ fans" and leave the comments there. No?

Grief should never be belittled whether it is a family member or a music idol. A death can bring about all kinds of bad memories for people. You don't necessarily need to respect the FM but surely to kick someone when they are feeling down is not on. Best to say nothing IMO.

It's not rocket science eh?

IMO it's antagonistic.

I am sorry if my posts re the kids seemed offensive.... apologies..

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Originally posted by sciencewasrobbed:

quote:

Originally posted by Cagney:

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:

quote:

Originally posted by Cagney:


But if you see a thread titled "for MJ fans" isn't it common decency to NOT go into that thread and make derogatory comments? If that's what some want to do then make a thread titled "for non MJ fans" and leave the comments there. No?

Grief should never be belittled whether it is a family member or a music idol. A death can bring about all kinds of bad memories for people. You don't necessarily need to respect the FM but surely to kick someone when they are feeling down is not on. Best to say nothing IMO.

It's not rocket science eh?

IMO it's antagonistic.

I am sorry if my posts re the kids seemed offensive.... apologies..

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by Cagney:
But if you see a thread titled "for MJ fans" isn't it common decency to NOT go into that thread and make derogatory comments? If that's what some want to do then make a thread titled "for non MJ fans" and leave the comments there. No?

Grief should never be belittled whether it is a family member or a music idol. A death can bring about all kinds of bad memories for people. You don't necessarily need to respect the FM but surely to kick someone when they are feeling down is not on. Best to say nothing IMO.

There are also dedicated MJ sites or even PMs if people want private 'grief' chats with just like-minded people. Common decency is really just another name for social censoring. For instance, it's common decency in my world to respect the principle of innocent until proven guilty before the law but a surprisingly large swathe of the forum don't seem to have that common decency. So be it, it's a forum afterall. I'm happy to argue the toss each time.

I don't buy the piggy-backing in the argument of personal, unrelated grief onto celebrity deaths and censoring others on that basis either. That piggy-backing smacks of emotional manipulation to me, unconsciously or otherwise. I doubt if I'm the only one but when I've encountered family deaths, I've found that everyone seems to be joking about death or making insensitive comments. I just deal with it internally rather than make a public issue out of it as I know I'm sensitised at that point. For sure, a celebrity death might be a conduit for repressed emotions from other deaths but that's a personal thing.

Celebrity grief isn't the same as grief one feels when someone close dies. Personal grief can take years to quell. I bet most people renting their clothes now over MJ will have got happily drunk this weekend or will be getting on with their normal lives in a day or two. It's just a hightened emotional moment, possibly leaving a residual sadness for a few days, and a bit of nostalgia when his songs are played.

quote:

Originally posted by The Secretary:
Am I missing sumat?

Sorry to start another MJ thread, but if I see 'have some respect' one more time, I might have to peel my face off (not as a tribute).

Some people didn't like him. A fact not changed by him snuffing it. Get over it.

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Originally posted by Garage Joe:

Sorry Conspiracy Theory, which may or may not include requests for further post mortems, accusations of wrong-doing, mystery, comedy, tradgedy etc.

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Originally posted by Daniel J*:
What's going on here now is a fight for the centre space where 'normal' people hang out. Is the celebrity grief normal? The indifference normal? Whose common decency is really common, or decent? Whose not rocket science is logical and obvious rather than just a mere opinion?

quote:

Originally posted by Heather:
No child abuse joke is funny.

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Originally posted by Sky:
I highlighted that particular part of your post (above) because of its irony....as in "guilty before proven innocent"..it seems to be the main (excuse?) or reason certain individuals display a disliking for MJ...it seems they've acquired "evidence" hidden from the rest of the world..

quote:

Originally posted by Sky:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Daniel J*:
For instance, it's common decency in my world to respect the principle of innocent until proven guilty

I agree with your illustrated view re. the differences between "celebrity" deaths and "close" related deaths, but i've also noticed how some FMs who favour MJ less than others, have even tried to coerce the MJ fans into showing some "respect" to another FMs sad loss! whilst i acknowledge the sad losses of others who aren't "well known"....it should be logically understood WHY MJ (and other popular people) ARE acknowledged - because they're well known! NOT because they're considered more important!

I highlighted that particular part of your post (above) because of its irony....as in "guilty before proven innocent"..it seems to be the main (excuse?) or reason certain individuals display a disliking for MJ...it seems they've acquired "evidence" hidden from the rest of the world..

quote:

Originally posted by Lockes no 1 fan:
I dont care who respects MJ or disrepects him everyone is entitled to view their OWN opinion on him........what I find quite sickening is that during a general discusion on the issue the day after he died the op decided to enter the thread telling sickening jokes about the child abuse issue.....So I think thats why people may have told you to show some respect.......not because MJ had died but them jokes are disrespectful in themselves and not funny.

quote:

Originally posted by pretty~cocoa~eyes:

quote:

Originally posted by Lockes no 1 fan:
I dont care who respects MJ or disrepects him everyone is entitled to view their OWN opinion on him........what I find quite sickening is that during a general discusion on the issue the day after he died the op decided to enter the thread telling sickening jokes about the child abuse issue.....So I think thats why people may have told you to show some respect.......not because MJ had died but them jokes are disrespectful in themselves and not funny.

I agree with you, it sickens me that people still this even after his death...

quote:

Originally posted by Irish-Princess:

quote:

Originally posted by pretty~cocoa~eyes:

quote:

Originally posted by Lockes no 1 fan:
I dont care who respects MJ or disrepects him everyone is entitled to view their OWN opinion on him........what I find quite sickening is that during a general discusion on the issue the day after he died the op decided to enter the thread telling sickening jokes about the child abuse issue.....So I think thats why people may have told you to show some respect.......not because MJ had died but them jokes are disrespectful in themselves and not funny.

I agree with you, it sickens me that people still this even after his death...

I still believe MJ was guilty, and I am adamant that had he just been your average Joe Bloggs then he would have had the book thrown at him and would be rotting in a prison cell. In Martin Bashairs interview Michal Jackson said to him, 'I think it is special to share a bed with a young boy' For crying it loud that is almost evidence enough in itself! That aside, he is a great music artist and he should be duly remembered for this, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the stuff should be forgotten.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

There are also dedicated MJ sites or even PMs if people want private 'grief' chats with just like-minded people. Common decency is really just another name for social censoring. For instance, it's common decency in my world to respect the principle of innocent until proven guilty before the law but a surprisingly large swathe of the forum don't seem to have that common decency. So be it, it's a forum afterall. I'm happy to argue the toss each time.

I don't buy the piggy-backing in the argument of personal, unrelated grief onto celebrity deaths and censoring others on that basis either. That piggy-backing smacks of emotional manipulation to me, unconsciously or otherwise. I doubt if I'm the only one but when I've encountered family deaths, I've found that everyone seems to be joking about death or making insensitive comments. I just deal with it internally rather than make a public issue out of it as I know I'm sensitised at that point. For sure, a celebrity death might be a conduit for repressed emotions from other deaths but that's a personal thing.

Celebrity grief isn't the same as grief one feels when someone close dies. Personal grief can take years to quell. I bet most people renting their clothes now over MJ will have got happily drunk this weekend or will be getting on with their normal lives in a day or two. It's just a hightened emotional moment, possibly leaving a residual sadness for a few days, and a bit of nostalgia when his songs are played.