I'm even more confused now . You appear to be contradicting your earlier post. I wish we hadn't missed the 'big reply' that you lost 

I used to be religious and enjoyed Christmas for the family get togethers, good food, lots of booze and excitement of kids.


Now I'm an Atheist and enjoy Midwinter celebrations for the family get togethers, good food, lots of booze and excitement of kids.

I was a sunday school teacher once and wrote Xmassy plays and everything...

OK, I was religious and lazy!

Oh you would have loved it 

Tell me where I've contradicted myself please?

One example of this insensitivity occurs in some residential homes.

I have seen elderly people keeping their own counsel, suddenly have a paper hat plonked on their head by a not-very-understanding member of staff. Then they are cajoled to smile, or sing-along, or whatever it is they are doing.  Are the staff doing this for themselves?
Christmas is a time when many elderly people drift back with their thoughts and perhaps feel like weeping.
But some over-enthusiastic member of staff won't allow it!
That is wrong.
A sensitive carer would understand.

Chrstmas for me has always been about family. Now the kids are older its just another day with my mums dinner and loadsabooze. I used to enjoy the buzz but now it all starts way too soon and i'm sick of it before december even begins. The tree was up in my local supermarket before bon-fire night.

My mum works in residential home Brisket and I agree with what you say. She speaks out about it every year but as she says herself it's not worth her job to be riling the bosses 

On one hand you're saying you respect peoples religious beliefs on the other you are telling them they don't have a monopoly on xmas even though xmas (as we know it now) is in fact based entirely on some religious myth.

Just seemed a bit odd. I'll shut up now, before you tell me to

Many of them don't. That falls into the 'you can't please all the people all the time' category for me. The staff are probably told to cheer up the elderly at that time of year.

Just to be clear, and someone mentioned it on page 1, Christmas was originally a midwinter celebration, , with lots of feasting and probably a fair few jars, long before the church moved Jebus' birthday to that time of year.


Even when I was religious, I understood that we had hijacked it and given it a new name.

I have no delusions at all as to why Christmas exists. We need to celebrate. That's why we have Christmas, Birthdays, Easter, New Years Eve, we need specific times about when we should celebrate and how we should do it. 'Why' never features. Prince William marries some posh bint and we all get a day off. Lots of reasons. Nobody asks why.

We're not sheep though, or robots. That must be somebody else

Some managers tell their staff that, certainly.
Other managers (I think the wiser, more understanding ones) do not. They would offer a comforting and understanding word. What they should not do is "impose" - they should display empathy, not authoritarianism.

Prom,  ,  I hope my post did not sound like a generalisation. I believe I said "some residential homes".
But I was describing what I have actually witnessed in a number of different institutions,  and I was not generalising.

I agree but how do you implement that without dampening the spirits of some to grant privacy to others? No matter which way you slice it, some people will be happy, some people will be unhappy. It's the curse of a communal environment more than what may seem insensitivity on the part of the carers don't you think?

I respect peoples beliefs I just don't want them forced on me. I don't preach to people so don't preach to me kinda thing. I don't believe in what some see as the true meaning of Xmas so I can celebrate it any way I like. If that offends then I can only apologise.....not because of my beliefs (or lack of them) but because I've upset another person. 

You started this btw and if you're a fellow Weegie like I think you are then you should know it's a no win thing.

It absolutely is. If it's any comfort, in a 'offend the religious nutjob' competition  I'll beat you hands-down 

I misunderstood your last post, my apologies. My mistake, not yours

Actually, Prom, I think it can be both.

Prom - I offend people every day. People are over sensitive these days. I'm not one of them 

It can of course. I propose interviewing elderly people in care homes and asking 'are you a xmas hat sort of person or a bah humbug person or just a plain old the past hurts too much to think about it person' then seperating them all into various xmas and non xmas cubicles that should do the trick 

Me neither mate 

Indeed, I wasn't suggesting you didn't understand.My point is that nobody has the right to object that people aren't respecting the 'true' meaning of Christmas, only the use of the name, maybe, and nobody should feel bad about celebrating it.

Prom, you may have missed out those who wish to feel nostalgic - those for whom the past holds fond memories, and who now remember it with a "happy kind of sadness" (to quote a song.)


(Edit: Referring to your post 3 places above ^^^ timed at 2.01)

No I understand that completely but it's unrealistic to expect carers to identify the individual needs of all those who depend on them is all I'm saying.

But carers who can recognise individual needs, is precisely what one is looking for in a good carer.

I agree it is unrealistic to expect all carers to have this ability and sensitivity, and to display it to all those who depend on them.  Nevertheless that is what one seeks.  Ideally.  Pleasingly some carers do have these sensibilities. Sadly, some do not.


Enjoyed chatting Prom.  Goodnight.

I used to love the Nativity at school, but I was always in the bloody choir. The one year I got to play a part (and thought I was gonna get the star role of Mary) - I ended up being a friggin sheep

I did believe all that star guiding and 3 geezers following it gubbins. I remember not being very impressed at the gifts they came bearing, thought it was a bit of a piss take to travel all that way with gold, frankincense and myrrh when what would Jesus and the 'rents do with it? Surely keys to a new house or a few months down payment at one of the inns would have been more appropriate with new baby in tow?

And I believed in Father Christmas as well. My mum was telling me today that when I was 6 I insisted I saw him on the garage roof with a spanner on Christmas eve and then he flew off with his reindeer. It was probably a bladdered wannabe burglar in seasonal costume

If you had asked this question 10 years ago my answer would have pretty much mirrored other's. A time for celebration, family, lots of friends, food and presents,
But I view it differently now.
Christmas changed for me about 2 years ago when it represented commercialism and gluttony. I had always been a huge xmas fan but I tired of it.....

It was Xmas 2008 that I decided to leave my marriage.Fed up with the constant cooking, cleaning, abuse, twisting of conversations to suit his purpose and the shouting, I had an epiphany.
Why was I here and what was stopping me going.,..... I vowed I would go and although it took me another 6 months to leave the house,from that moment my marriage was over. 
So I put up with the noise, the confusion, I cooked a fabulous xmas lunch knowing it would be the last I cooked in that house and I smiled and laughed.

Last year I went the other way - barely any cards sent, no presents, apart from my girls and I fully expected to be having xmas on my own... that would have been fine, I would have bought marvellous food from M and S and watched TV.

But in the event I had the best xmas ever....I learnt that you don't need presents lots of cards and a a house groaning with food and drink to have a good time.
You just need to be with the right person.

I had the best Xmas ever last year... this year I am  buying more presents for friends and familty. I will send cards.
But it will not be OTT. Just simple well meant gifts and I am using cards that I had leftover from last year.

So Prom in answer to your question, Xmas for me means reflection, being with someone you love and watching the rest of the country debauche themselves. :_


Sorry that was a bit of a missive..

i only tolerate xmas because of my family.. apart from that i hate all the crap tele (apart from dr who) and we spend faar too much on presents and food ... not keen

I always loved Christmas until my husband passed away five days before Christmas for the obvious reasons it is a sad time for me, I always try put on a good front on Christmas day for the sake of my family, I know my husband would not want us to be feeling sad he would want us all to be happy 

We don't spend loads on presents for the kids....its all about being together and having a good time....we don't have the TV on much (though Dr Who is a must watch).  I always buy some sort of new game though for the 'kids' (22,19,17 and 11) which everyone plays.

Great epiphany Issy. 

same here Minus the kids part

Thanks SB.

It really was a defining moment - I had a duster in one hand and the polish in the other,

I rang my sister and said " I am soooo out of this marriage!"

I went to see a financial advisor the next week because ex told me we would not be able to afford houses on our own if we split up and he would have to rent...
She told me I was more than able to manage on my own....

I was sorted!

Especially xmas food, it's gonna have gone off by then

I can't even get a turkey till Christmas Eve (or the day before) cos i have nowhere to stash it.

which is why the whole 'true meaning' thing is a bit bolloxy really

I always get mine Xmas eve - pre ordered. 

I'm actually better off getting a frozen one cos at least then I can get it a bit earlier and defrost it for a day or so (in the bath sometimes) before i stick it in the oven Christmas Eve night.

This year though we're going to the in-laws so i won;t have to do one at all though i might buya crown for when we get back the day after Boxing Day

Truly inspiring.  Financing a home as the sole wage earner is one of the biggest obstacles women face when deciding to leave an unhappy marriage.   Glad it has turned out so well for you.

Xmas for me used to mean a time for family and friends where we all made time to get together and have a good laugh unlike other times of the year when it wasn't always so easy to do .. and for some of the family and friends it also had religious meaning as I came from a catholic background. . I'm lapsed tho so wasn't into that part..  having the little time off work meant everyone could make more of an effort to  get together to catch up with each other properly ..

Now it is just a time of yr which reminds me of the past and what once was, and also of all those people now long gone. .it is a very lonely time if you have no family and all friends have moved away.. Xmas day is also the anniversary of my mother's passing and she was the last of my close family to go.. the fact the media and everywhere you look shoves 'the family' and get togethers/parties etc. in your face with no escape from it [crap TV] and, add to that the fact it all starts even earlier than ever, just makes for a longer and more rotten time of year for me personally. .roll on 1st of Jan I say

So for me Xmas means  Bah Humbug and proud of it ..so sorry if Bah Humbuggers upsets some people . . most have a jolly good reason for feeling a bit Bah Humbuggy . .and if we have to put up with all the Happy Xmas peeps then surely there is room for a few Bah Humbuggers too 

How funny ...........the same happened to my sister .........she had been married for 22 years (most of them unhappy) we'd had endless conversations over the years about her leaving but they were in financial dire straits and it was difficult to even contemplate.

She said it was seeing other people enjoying themselves and putting on the pretence that did it for her too. I too received that same phone call over Christmas - she was gone by March. Believe it or not another factor was Princess Di leaving Charles - she said to herself - if she can do it so can I. I think she (my sister) was one of the first in our family (a large extended one)..
to get divorced.

As you say Christmas is a time of heightened emotions and can be either fantastic or truly awful. Incidentally it is now 20 years on - she remarried eighteen months ago and has never been happier.

As for me ........................I used to simply love everything about it but over the years it gets a bit jaded. Everyone comes to me every year and it's a lot of work preparing for it all - the endless build up grates on me a bit - but when it's all here and I have all my family together under one roof I simply love it.