I don't agree that only the very wealthy should have the right to an education, however the Tories do, hence these plans.  Then again the Tories think only the super rich have a right to healthcare so they are privatising the NHS through the back door.

They know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Everything's up for sale, come and get it if you can afford it.

yeah...  I joined there in the aftermath of the privatisation...   our office was divided from the customer complaints department by some exhibition board things...  the complaints dept was run by old boy engineers...  I used to have a laugh with them as well.

I have never worked anywhere since that has a trolley come round mid morning, a subsidised canteen & a trolley in the afternoon - trolley laiden with food & snacks & urns of tea & hot milk!

I chose to leave rather than face a disciplinary for having rude conversation with my (by that time) boyfriend on the Customer Service System message system (some twat in the DISU grassed us up, and mgmt wanted to make an example of us)

In any case, don't these supposed "Degree in David Beckham" things turn out to be modules or dissertations for Sport Science or Sport Physio? But not after the tabloids have got the story.

TBH I'm not really bothered about it - I have loads of debt now and I haven't lost a seconds sleep over that.  It isn't "proper debt" therefore if I ever find myself in a situation where I am not earning enough I won't have to pay anything.  If anybody ever asked me if I was in debt my answer would be no - as I'm not in any real debt.  Hope that makes sense


Yeah, that does make sense PP. However the fact that it's no sweat off your back doesn't mean that to others starting off in lower paid professions like teaching and social work in areas like the London and the South East it can make the world of difference to their standard of living.

That's the right mentality RR....It is a debt,personally I despise debt and the sooner I could pay it off the better.

The way you go on PP annoys me, you berate and judge people on other threads for 'living on credit' and spending above their means etc, the usual cliques however you not only do the same but go on like, 'I don't see it as a loan', 'Its written off after so long anyway' and its convenient you have finished your degree so none of this effects you. on rule for one and another for your average uneducated Joe Bloggs.

How do I do the same??  I took out a loan and I am paying it back according to the terms and conditions I signed up to and I will continue to do so - I am not living above my means but well within them.  People living above their means are the ones who take out credit who do not have the ability to pay the money back according to the terms and conditions they signed up to.

Hmmm...I built a career with no qualifications but am now in a position to pursue a degree. Didn't want to when I was in my teens or 20's, just didn't interest me at all. The degree I'm doing isn't directly connected to what I do for a living but I'm very interested in the subject.

Anyone I've spoken to who pursues Uni education has said it requires a lot of dedication, so I would think even a Beatles degree isn't going to be an easy thing to do. Also, employers love to see higher education on CV's, no matter what age you are or in what subject as it demonstrates that you can apply yourself. It does give a good impression of a potential candidate.

Yeah, that does make sense PP. However the fact that it's no sweat off your back doesn't mean that to others starting off in lower paid professions like teaching and social work in areas like the London and the South East it can make the world of difference to their standard of living

I am currently in a very low paid job and the amount I pay back really is negligible.  However further to the point you make - with the new rules the threshold would be increased therefore people in lower paid professions would be better protected.

the lad that lives next door to my parents is at Cambridge "reading" Ancient Greek Scripture

anyone know what job you get at the end of such a degree?

Teaching's the only one I can think of Ditty.

the lad that lives next door to my parents is at Cambridge "reading" Ancient Greek Scripture

anyone know what job you get at the end of such a degree?


He can teach others about 'Ancient Greek Scripture'  Seriously, I can see a place for niche specialisms that aren't necessarily practical because it helps to situate knowledge in a cultural and historical way.
I agree with Karma that being in higher education is as much to do with the discipline of studying something than what is learnt along the way.

My daughter studied Classics at uni. She did it for the love of the subject as much as anything.

She wants to work in human resources... go figure

Yep or a lecturer or a Uni tutor...there could be other courses he's doing to get to the degree that can also apply to a number of career paths. While we're on the subject of education, can anyone tell me why the hell I am going to my son's school with him next week to talk about his GCSE options? He's only 12?!

My opinion on education is becoming increasingly unpopular with the public, but I reckon education in itself is a good thing.  No matter what, even if it's a luxury like ancient Norse literature   Not saying that alll kids should go into HE, it's not for everyone and artificially inflating the figures (because there is bugger all else for kids to do) was daft.

But I believe in for those that have the aptitude and want it. Not just for people like Osborne who found PPE to challenging, swapped to History and ended up a towel folder at Selfridges.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm 

K, he has to pick them now.  He'll start being taught his "options" next year.

He's not beholden to take every one as an exam in yr 10 or 11 though.

Bloody hell Karma

Might have something to do with this:

GCSE exams "should be taken at 14"

My ex did Ancient Greek and he's an actor. We can't all split the atom or discover penicillin.

No, you pick them now so you can be taught them.  if that makes sense.

Say he has a choice of French, Spanish or German, he picks which one now so he can study it (and do course work) for the next few years then sit his exam in year 10 (if he's dead good at it) or year 11.

Edited to add, though that's all gonna be out the window if Gove gets his way coz it'll all be scrapped for the Baccalaureate.

Unless we improvise.

I like that the gods of being-a-smug-git-on-the-internet have made my "sneer at Osborne" post full of typos.

Life, always reminding me I'm a bit shit

Ello woman! xx

When I've had to look at CV's in the past, depending on the role that was being filled, I/we'd always look for experience and education and what the candidate was interested in. Going back to the Beatles thing again....if I was working for Music Week or Universal and a candidate was pursuing a Beatles degree, that would say to me that this person not only has a passion for the band, but also an interest in people in general, how they interact with each other, the music industry and how it works and contracts and negotiation.

Getting a degree will not automatically mean that someone will walk into a high paying job in that subject, either. A lot of people still have to start at base level and work their way up, gaining experience in a working capacity before being put in charge of a team or reaching senior or management status or salary.

Hey Karms  How's the course going?

Oooh ta for the GSCE advice I didn't want to go in and meet his teachers next week and not look like I know what they're on about. (Cos I'm usually dead snooty when I speak to them on the phone and wanted to carry on the facade )

sh*t!    I thought the chances of someone on here having studied it, and me upsetting someone were virtually zero!

Sorry Suzy....  no offence, and it was a genuine question, I have wondered if there was a related career...   I assume the lad will get something through Oxbridge Jobs ...  Consultancy based or something

Great! I've passed all 3 TMA's so far, just working on the 4th at the mo. Really enjoying it

No probs K re. GCSE stuff.

I'm not offended ditty...I never got what it was all about either tbh. I kinda understand that people who are into things like that might study it because it keeps a tradition alive or keeps it the realms of a greater body of knowledge. Same as history or archaeology I suppose. 
Good stuff Karms

Karma Is K the first of the lot having to stay on till 18 or is that Alfies' lot?

For the ones that now have to stay on there's little point in doing the GCSEs at all...they might just as well go straight to A Level...seeing as the GSCE was as a market of how well kids had done when finishing their compulsory education....scrap them if they're not now finishing it.

As an aside they reckon doing the knowledge is the equivalent of doing a degree....My husband was well pleased to hear that seeing as he got slung out of school before being able to do any exams at all.

Does anyone know when the first lot that have to stay on is?

basically...   my boy is in year 8 now...    will he be in the leaving at 18 group, or the last of the leaving at 16 group?

I think he's the first of staying to 18.

Yeah K's in year 8, in his first high school (before moving to this one) he had to stay on till 18 so I presume it's across the board. Even now though he just wants to go out and work, he learns much better in his own space and in his own time. He doesn't see the point in wasting time studying subjects that he has zero interest in. Rather opinionated, is my boy. Can't think where he gets it from

oh he's gonna love that!


I can hear the "its not fair's" already!

Dits, you wanna be come and sit in my house for the day

I was the very last year to leave at fifteen. I simply couldn't wait to get out and earn money (there were still lots of jobs in those days) ...............since hitting age 27 - all I ever want to do is learn more and more . I sooooooooooooooooooo regret forcing my mum and dad to sign those papers to allow me to leave. All the things I cold have learned free of charge!

I suppose it's no good telling kids that though (I didn't listen to anyone).

only if the boys aren't there! 

My boy is like yours Karma...   he wants to get out and work....  apprenticeship or similar work placed training would be ideal for him.

He wants to work in IT..    programming type side of things..

Soozy, why not look into home learning? It's never too late! I'm with the OU on a part time course and it's grand.

K wants to be a street racer But he is also interested in designing and making PS3/PC games so I'm trying to sell the benefits of that at the moment as opposed to getting chased by the old bill at 3 in the morning

Sooz...   my boy loves to learn, but has a very tight focus..   basically when he gets into something, its that and nothing else.. ..     

his learning style is a very practical one, and often self led/taught.   He's a bit like me with some of his school work..   he asks "why do I need to learn this" alot...    I used to do that too.

Very different from my daughter who loves a bit of academia. 


I think if my boy finds his niche he'll do really well..     

meanwhile its my job to keep him from the dark side til he gets there (a 24/7 job...  the dark side calls to the boy...  )