It is, isn't it, Dame?     I'm still reading all the links....    'do as I say, not as I do (did)' doesn't come close.

Funnily enough, JB, you were the first person I though of when I read it!

EDIT:   not that I think you're a venal pigmy moral dwarf.... despite what I've heard  

David Cameron is to announce a review of every government policy following last week's riots, to ensure they are bold enough to fix a "broken society"

Should we be worried do you think?

And this pisses me off!

He will include children without fathers, schools without discipline and communities without control in a long list of what he believes has gone wrong in parts of the country.

It's got NOTHING to do with children without fathers! Cheeky git!  It's about parents who don't give a crap, give their kids no guidance, and couldn't care less where they are or what they get up to! It's got NOTHING to do with how many parents you have! 

If you have two parents who couldn't give a crap you're no better off are you???

Maybe he needs to come and see some of these children without fathers and see how plenty of them are well brought up, have high aspirations, and are even more apalled then most adults at what has occured over recent days! I've got a teenage boy right here who for hasn't seen his Dad in 18 years who could show Cameron a thing or two about morals!

Idiot

He's made me ranty   and it's not even lunchtime yet Yogi!

IMO, the issue has nothing to do with lone/single parents, it's about the couldn't-give-a-damn parents.

Eggsackerly.

Totally agree Ducks!

I have an 18 year old who hasn't seen her "Dad" in 15 years...   who could also teach him a thing or two.

He's a [insert sweary word]...  saying what he thinks people want to hear, looking all chinless & determined, spouting bollox about complex issues that he has absolutely no understanding about! 

Where's Soozy?

 

This has just been tweeted by Sky news:

33-year-old man charged with starting fire which destroyed Reeves Furniture Store in Croydon during London riots

 

The replies to this on Twitter make all of us here look like card carrying tree hugging lefty sandal wearers

Cheers Veggie - I'll look into it. My mums friend sends her a copy of the Croydon Advertiser every week - this weeks edition will make interesting reading I should think!

Stoopid quote box

& yeah... he could do with a bit powdering to remove the shine

I'm not excusing those kids or what went on. I would prosecute the parents tooif any of them are under senior school age - but that's because I am an eeeeebilll witch. However............

Call me Dave needs to look at his colleagues (of all parties) and his city mates first.

And while he is at it he can take a good long look at the eebil Thatcher, because a lot of what has gone wrong over the last 30 years can be laid at the door of her, Reagan and the Neo Cons.

And while they are all at it, seeing as they are big on biblical quotes and prayers etc, here's one for Call me Dave.

"Get the plank out of your own eye  before you look for the splinter in someone elses"

What a shame that this thread has deteriorated into yet another bash the government thread.  What about 13 years of Labour government?  Or is it only Conservative and Liberal governments that can make mistakes? 

What we need to do is to get behind everyone who is trying to put this situation right and attempt to mend what we can all see is a tragic breakdown of some elements of our society into greed and lawlessness, and the bling culture.

And yes, in my opinion, you stand a far better chance of raising children to respect their society if you do have a mother and father to look up to.  OK this isn't always possible and many mums do a heroic job raising decent boys and girls on their own.  But especially with boys it is my belief that a dad that can provide a real role model to respect and emulate is a head start.

Something is badly wrong and unless we all, as a society, are prepared to admit that and try to regain standards of decency and honesty, then we don't stand a chance.

That goes without saying Squiggle. It would be fantastic if every child had the perfect male AND female role model. I don't believe there is a single parent on this earth who wouldn't want the ideal mum, dad, lets all live happily ever after scenario for their children...... but as you say, it isn't always possible. We don't live in an ideal world, not every father is a good role model, and I'm afraid that no male role model is far far better than a bad one.

I don't have an issue with politicians saying it would be ideal if each child had a decent mum and dad, of course it is! I just have an issue when they say there is something wrong if they haven't, and it is their simplistic attitude towards single parents that I object to. Two parent families don't hold the moral high ground..... families with decent children do...and regardless of the beliefs of some politicians..... there are many many decent children from single parent backgrounds.

David Cameron, and others who say similar ill thought out comments concerning single parents, need to catch up and realise this is the way of the world these days....and to be frank I'd rather have it like this (where women have more choice, and don't have to stay in a unbearable relationship just because society insists we come in pairs), than how it used to be. Yes, every child may have had a male role model, but it sometimes came at the expense of a decent female one.

If they could just focus on the real issues and forget banging on about things they can't change maybe we would actually get somewhere.

I agree with your last paragraph however, and I hope that once the knee jerk, blame game finishes..... we will be able to start working towards that. It might help if every government, current and previous, stopped trying to shift the blame and realise it has a lot more to do with culture, media, and decent role models outside of the family unit, than it does with their particular opposition party!

Ducky I think we have to give our present government, and yes David Cameron who is our prime minister, a chance to try to put things right and not start nit picking over every statement he makes.  Someone has to do something and the time to start heaving blame is when, heaven forbid, they fail and not right at the start.

Oh... I've just re-read what you said more carefully....and realised all that typing was probably for nothing

"you stand a far better chance of raising children to respect their society, if you have both a father and a mother to look up to"

If someone has it in them to raise a decent child... then they will do it regardless of whether they have a partner. Equally, if someone doesn't have a hope in hell of raising a decent child (because they themselves don't respect society), then having a partner isn't going to make a jot of difference.

If their partner doesn't repect society, then the child is still doomed....and if they do....well the relationship isn't going to last five minutes with such a difference in attitudes...and then we're back to the single parent issue again.

Either way..... it's not the single parent issue that we need to solve.... it's some parents attitude towards society. I haven't got a clue how to solve that one, but I know it won't come from making sure they are married. So it's pointless for any politician to keep equating bad parents with single parents.

That's closer to what I really wanted to say.

I think

I agree, honestly I do.... but I reserve the right to bash him everytime he mentions single parents in a negative, unhelpful, and irrelvant manner. I don't consider it nit-picking....I find what he said VERY offensive Squiggle!

And if Tony Blair had said the same thing I would have reacted in the same manner....any politician bashing single parents for easy browny points has to face my wrath.

Except he doesn't have an irritatingly shiny face , so I would have probably have left that bit out.  

*holds hand up*   My mother (for a time my grandmother) raised 3 of us children after my abusive father decided to flit over to Malta to avoid paying child maintenance. <----- ooo how old am I   My parents got divorced when not many Catholics did so and Irish Catholics were never supposed to which gave us a stigma both at school and with who we were allowed to associate with 

I was partly raised in Ireland by my grandmother with my sister as my brother who is learning disabled was very ill for the first 6 years of his life.  When we returned to her care and my brother was stable, I remember her working 3 jobs - a full time job, a part time evening job and another part time weekend job just to make ends meet.  The idea of claiming benefit was never even considered.

Each of us children grew up with a good work ethic and although we felt cheated that we didn't share enough of her time, we knew as a family we were in this together (sounds suspiciously like David Cameron)   My brother was not expected to ever amount to much (hospital/teachers etc)  however, he has been employed by our local council since leaving school 27 years ago and thank God he's never sick these days 

As much as my sister and I wanted to always be out with our mates, we understood that our family only worked if we all mucked in together so we ended up with a lot of the chores at home.  We did still get some play time   Anyhoo mammy managed to instil discipline (the look she used to give us still frightens me now if I think about it)   and a sense of responsibility - if she thought we were mucking about at school, she'd take appropriate action but if she felt the school were unfair, she'd fight tooth and nail for us.

As she always used to say - one good parent is better than two bad ones 

I can see that you and I will never agree on this point Ducky and so I will respect your point of view whilst retaining my own. 

I think that one of the reasons that we are having so much trouble with children is because the traditional family is no longer the one to aim for.  I see it with my own grandsons, they were fortunate to have two wonderful grandfathers, both now no longer with us, who did their best to provide a role model.  My grandsons have great respect for both their grandfathers but unless we have these role models from the current generation of men it is going to be a much harder job. 

Anyway we all have our own opinions on these matters and that is mine.

That's a wonderful post Pengy and more power to your mammy's elbow. Sounds like she did a marvellous job, I just think that job is made easier if its shared by both mother and father.  The fact that so many fathers have made a mess of things doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to have both bringing up the children.

Where's Soozy?

 

 

The replies to this on Twitter make all of us here look like card carrying tree hugging lefty sandal wearers

 I am a card carrying tree hugging lefty sandal wearer.

Awww I love the way you call her "mammy"

Mine is "mam"..... but I think I might slip the odd mammy in if I can get away with it.

tis an Irish I think although my sister always calls her "The mother" which makes makes me laugh 

I don't think we differ that much Squiggle to be honest.   I believe, even now, that every single person aims for the traditional family, believe me, no one in their right mind is going to willingly choose the alternative. Yes, I believe the alternative works just as well in terms of the outcomes for the child if the parent is able to cope.... but coping takes it out of you believe me!

All I'm saying differently to you, (well not you actually, David Cameron to be precise)  is that single parents shouldn't be stigmatised, and there are many two parent families with the exact same issues he is apparently keen to address. So focus on all of them, don't categorise people, and drop the outdated view of the perfect family as the ONLY way forward. Value those single parent families where it DOES work, concentrate on those single AND double parent families where it doesn't, and use language that distinguishes the difference. 

As some gobby git on the telly said recently. If we want to teach people to respect society, start by being a good role model and showing them how it's done.

(there may have been an "innit" on the end of the original quote )

As someone who has brought one generation up and  is currently on with the next one........ We seem to manage to bring 'em up in spite of our crap society. We engage the constant stream of bollocks put their way by irresponsible advertisers, the media, shit "musicians," capitalism, usw.

Originally Posted by Veggieburger:

Where's Soozy?

 

 

The replies to this on Twitter make all of us here look like card carrying tree hugging lefty sandal wearers

 I am a card carrying tree hugging lefty sandal wearer.

Well aren't we all

Compared to the good folks on Twitter who are somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun on law and order policies

Oh god! I'm SO with you on this ^^^^

If I ever have another child (unlikely, but humour me)  they're not reading a single tabloid, not watching a single TV programme, not watching a single music video, in fact I'm going to blindfold them and stick my fingers in their ears from the second they are born.

In fact, talking of music videos...... many schools these days have plasma screens in the canteen where the kids spend their breaks and lunch..... and often they play the music channels..... and some of the videos shouldn't be allowed before the watershed (IMO)

If anyone wants a cause to fight for..... force the schools to switch to BBCNews24 or summat please.

OOOOH!

So... its not totally out of the question then! 

OOOH!

(actually Ducks..  I'd go for the puppy...   but, I could get excited about a duckling too)

*goes looking at the really cute goth baby clothes*

Did you not read my bracketed statement?

Back away from the cute baby clothes.

although on a more serious note on that subject.. 

yes.. the media/music videos don't help in terms of turning a child into a  well balanced contribution to society...   but I have censored very little with mine...  and it hasn't really affected their attitudes.   I don't know why, because I can definitely see hoardes of teens where it really has influenced them.

I think for me I just got to a point where openess & communication was the only policy with my kids..  and to try & understand & not always come across as sitting in judgement.   Oh & I'm a big believer in pre-empting problems/temptations...  & finding other things to distract them from such routes (hence why we are currently discussing the boy joining cadets...   he wants to ditch Rugby so we have told him he has to sign up to something else, army or sea cadets seem to be the current favourites).

the bracketed statement only said "unlikely"

that's as good as a yes in my house! 

The unlikely was there just to cover all eventualities.... I reckon we're about due another imacculate conception

the second coming? 

*bows in reverence to the duck*

'bout time

just read my rants

oooh-i was on one lol

I wonder if Dave and his mates will be contacting my sons mate on account of him being from a single parent home....his dad was a right bastard going and dying on them when they were smaller.....what a selfish git!  And his mum carried on running her own highly successful business so her kids are very well porvided for...selfish...she should have gone and got the kids another dad.  Someone like the bloke up the road,.....who is always there for his kids cos he's never done a bloody days work in his life....he's fiddling everything of course and has more stuff than we do with two working parents but he's there so thats all that counts!

I just heard the name of the guy charged with the fire at Reeves corner . As some of you know I'm from Croydon - when I was about 14 I was at the youth club - some yobs from another area came in (they were after my BF who was a bad lad) - I was punched in the face and knocked out in the fracas by someone of the same name. Really wouldn't surprise me if it was his son (the age is about right).