Moonie posted:Sprout posted:Having said that, yes there are cheats in every part of society. It's down to the government to weedle these peeps out and deal with them, not tar everyone with the same brush!
I agree Sprouty
Yeah, it annoys me that I'm playing by the rules and there are countless others that aren't 
These are the peeps that should be 'sorted'
Sprout posted:Having said that, yes there are cheats in every part of society. It's down to the government to weedle these peeps out and deal with them, not tar everyone with the same brush!
benefit cheats make up .05% of the benefit bill...it's a minute fraction 
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Looks like it's going to be kicked into touch until they can come up with an equally evil plan which no doubt will be aimed at the poorest. I just wish people would check their facts before believing b*llox about scroungers...check their facts on which party has borrowed the most and paid back the most, yet labour are still the party that's not trusted with the economy because the Daily Mail ,The Scum and this Jackastory government preaches ...this is what you get when you get a powder loving, failed maths exam dick head that doesn't know which side of the country is which handling the nations finances ...
Yet again *claps* 
IDS has resigned!
pirate1111 posted:IDS has resigned!
"The Last Leg" will be live on C4 at 10pm.
I expect they will have a lot to say about this... 
Moonie posted:pirate1111 posted:IDS has resigned!
great news but you know that Dave wont let that go-he's made IDS leave because everyone knows he's targeting the vunerable, he's still gonna make us suffer...i say us, i mean the people that earn a minimum amount to keep us ticking over
we wont win or be comfortable and feel settled or safe while this wankstain is in charge
Eugene's Lair posted:pirate1111 posted:IDS has resigned!
"The Last Leg" will be live on C4 at 10pm.
I expect they will have a lot to say about this...
I love The Last Leg 
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Eugene's Lair posted:pirate1111 posted:IDS has resigned!
"The Last Leg" will be live on C4 at 10pm.
I expect they will have a lot to say about this...
I love The Last Leg
They've got the champagne out! 
"You never like to see someone lose their job, but there's always an exception!"
Eugene's Lair posted:Dame_Ann_Average posted:Eugene's Lair posted:pirate1111 posted:IDS has resigned!
"The Last Leg" will be live on C4 at 10pm.
I expect they will have a lot to say about this...
I love The Last Leg
They've got the champagne out!
"You never like to see someone lose their job, but there's always an exception!"
I may have to look up on this 
Sprout posted:Eugene's Lair posted:Dame_Ann_Average posted:Eugene's Lair posted:pirate1111 posted:IDS has resigned!
"The Last Leg" will be live on C4 at 10pm.
I expect they will have a lot to say about this...
I love The Last Leg
They've got the champagne out!
"You never like to see someone lose their job, but there's always an exception!"
I may have to look up on this
C4+1 at 11pm - Enjoy!
Eugene's Lair posted:Dame_Ann_Average posted:Eugene's Lair posted:pirate1111 posted:IDS has resigned!
"The Last Leg" will be live on C4 at 10pm.
I expect they will have a lot to say about this...
I love The Last Leg
They've got the champagne out!
"You never like to see someone lose their job, but there's always an exception!"
And as they said, he was considerate enough to do it in time for their show!
Eugene's Lair posted:Dame_Ann_Average posted:Eugene's Lair posted:pirate1111 posted:IDS has resigned!
"The Last Leg" will be live on C4 at 10pm.
I expect they will have a lot to say about this...
I love The Last Leg
They've got the champagne out!
"You never like to see someone lose their job, but there's always an exception!"
Haha! I just looked back on this! I dunno, I never wanted to see my old boss lose their job as much as I thought I did 
I despise this government and have an increasingly very dim view of their rotten support base made up of the self serving affluent, useful idiot working class, nasty working class and racist working class.
Anyone who believes the economy is like a household credit card is a cretin.
Every budget is the same, take from the poorest and hand out freebies to big business, their support base and the rich. Austerity for the poor, socialist handouts for the rich.
While the likes of C4 and C5 keep people's eyes on 'what benefits chavs get' the rich have been pocketing billions in state free money since 2007, through quantitative easing and bank bailouts.
I cannot think of a government in my lifetime that has so cynically looked after their support base and bashed those outside the Tory voter base all while preaching all in it together.
Despite their rhetoric that Labour wrecked the economy, the Tories deeply envied Blair winning elections based on property escalation and debt. The only thing they would have done differently is syphon off more to the rich in tax breaks.
The politics of the last 40 years has been a massive con job on the country so much so that despite all the bullshit rhetoric on 'aspiration' from the Tories and New Labour the younger generation will have less social mobility than their parents and grand parents.
We've had 40 years of tax cuts to drive entrepreneurship, aspiration rhetoric, trickle down, deregulate, leave it to the market and all that's happened is it's allowed the affluent to build a war chest to buy up property to screw over the working class and especially the current generation of younger people.
Sprout posted:Having said that, yes there are cheats in every part of society. It's down to the government to weedle these peeps out and deal with them, not tar everyone with the same brush!
Indeed, like the massive fraud perpetrated by MPs on expenses. Including Cameron himself.
Yellow Tory Lib Dem, David Laws, tried to defraud the country of ÂĢ40k and just got dropped from the cabinet. If it had been you or I, we'd have done time in jail.
Carnelian posted:I despise this government and have an increasingly very dim view of their rotten support base made up of the self serving affluent, useful idiot working class, nasty working class and racist working class.
Just for the record ....this Conservative supporter is none of the above
Baz posted:Carnelian posted:I despise this government and have an increasingly very dim view of their rotten support base made up of the self serving affluent, useful idiot working class, nasty working class and racist working class.
Just for the record ....this Conservative supporter is none of the above
Hmmm, so why do you vote Tory?
I'm not being obnoxious nor arrogant nor provocative but I really do think I've covered all the bases for Tory supporters.
Carnelian posted:Baz posted:Carnelian posted:I despise this government and have an increasingly very dim view of their rotten support base made up of the self serving affluent, useful idiot working class, nasty working class and racist working class.
Just for the record ....this Conservative supporter is none of the above
Hmmm, so why do you vote Tory?
I'm not being obnoxious nor arrogant nor provocative but I really do think I've covered all the bases for Tory supporters.
Put simply ....I am a voter exercising my democratic right to think differently to you . But if you want specifics....I am a pensioner, living on just over ÂĢ1k a month, with a partially disabled husband and a mortgage .....and I still reserve the right to vote Tory
"I despise this government and have an increasingly very dim view of their rotten support base made up of the self serving affluent, useful idiot working class, nasty working class and racist working class.
I'm not being obnoxious nor arrogant nor provocative but I really do think I've covered all the bases for Tory supporters."
Carnelian, I'm sure you don't like when left wing voters are regarded by some as work-shy, benefit grabbing, uneducated people (not my opinion!), so you ought to understand that your sweeping, unpleasant generalisation of Tory voters is offensive.
Your last statement does come across as arrogant and provocative so if it genuinely was not your intention, I have to say you failed.
I'm a Tory voter who has been married almost 35 years to a Labour voter. We respect each others right to hold differing opinions - something that needs to be practiced on this forum, imo.
Yogi19 posted:Carnelian posted:"I despise this government and have an increasingly very dim view of their rotten support base made up of the self serving affluent, useful idiot working class, nasty working class and racist working class.
I'm not being obnoxious nor arrogant nor provocative but I really do think I've covered all the bases for Tory supporters."
Carnelian, I'm sure you don't like when left wing voters are regarded by some as work-shy, benefit grabbing, uneducated people (not my opinion!), so you ought to understand that your sweeping, unpleasant generalisation of Tory voters is offensive.
Your last statement does come across as arrogant and provocative so if it genuinely was not your intention, I have to say you failed.
I'm a Tory voter who has been married almost 35 years to a Labour voter. We respect each others right to hold differing opinions - something that needs to be practiced on this forum, imo.
I'm sure it does, but I struggle to understand how what I've written isn't correct. Every single budget this lot have taken from the poorest with relish and given to the richest. Ok, so you're fine with that, so what conclusion should I draw?
If you voted for this government that has presided over a doubling of homelessness, food banks - almost unheard of before 2010, arbitrary trumped up sanctions targets that leave people with no money to live on, then that's fine.
If you're comfortable voting for those things while the Tories dole out free money to buy votes and destroy social housing, giving handouts to people who want to buy ÂĢ200k houses and have chucked billions of renters' taxes at maintaining the unaffordable prices of homes.
That's fine, but you support those things and I don't. Regardless of how arrogant I might read, I don't support those things.
You vote for those things, you must like those things. I don't think it's good enough to just blame the Tories for their hypocrisy and class war, their supporters vote for it. Their supporters should step up and account for their choices.
Like it or not, but you put the government that did those things back into office. The Tories will only be as bad as the voters who vote for them will tolerate. The Tories wouldn't pick on the weakest in society if they thought it would make them unelectable to their support base.
I recall in the 80s when Thatcher more than doubled unemployment between 1979 and 1983.
She was re-elected on a landslide because people, mainly in the south, who weren't losing their jobs, but were getting tax cuts, get rich quick share issues and buying their subsidised council houses simply didn't care less about the unemployed and homeless.
Thatcher was as nasty to the poor as her voter base would tolerate, and when it came down to it, that voter base simply didn't care enough about those the Tories victimised to change their votes.
Carnelian , with the greatest respect , it is possible to maturely criticise a political party without slandering their supporters . Moreover , what you appear to be advocating is that everyone in the country should vote the same way as you .....the result of which would in effect lead to a totalitarian state .
I hear ...almost as infinitum ....what people/politicians don't like about a sitting parliament ....but the truth is that it is easy to promise the earth whilst in opposition , but almost always ....and inevitably ....those promises fail to translate into policies once they get into power.
Sorry, I disagree. It's not slandering at all. Their supporters rubber stamped those policies. They went out of their way by going to polling stations to ensure those very policies were continued. Basically they had a choice, either vote for hand outs for the rich, arbitrary sanctioning, the war on the poor and the bedroom tax or don't vote for those things. They decided to vote to keep those things going. To ensure IDS was retained in his job etc. Basically, the reason why IDS is able to kick the weakest in society, is because people voted him back into that position!
Sorry, but with due respect, if you are going to vote for those policies then how can you complain when you're criticised for making the choices you make?
Of course you're at liberty to make those choices but once having made those choices, you can't expect not to be criticised for those choices. You can't say, I'm a really nice person but I just happen to vote for really horrible politicians.
I appreciate that I'm sounding judgemental, arrogant and obnoxious but the bottom line is that the choice people make in the polling booths impacts on people's lives.
Ok , so by your reasoning I can blame you for the Iraq war and every other bad decision the Blair government made ? Of course not !
Two type of people go into the polling booth ....those who consistently vote for one party , no matter what their policies or how many mistakes they make ....and those who go into the polling booth without preconceived ideas and vote for what they think is right at the time . In my case, in 50 years of voting , I've voted for all three parties .....and I can assure you that all three have been a great disappointment once in power But while I may have heartily complained about various governments , I hope I never resorted to name calling the voters , or expecting anyone else to take the blame ...or credit ...for my choices ....
Stephen Crabbe replaces Iain Duncan Smith
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35850932
Ooh, look at me contributing to a serious, grown up thread. Is it safe to come back to the UK yet?
Rawky-Roo posted:Stephen Crabbe replaces Iain Duncan Smith
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35850932
Ooh, look at me contributing to a serious, grown up thread. Is it safe to come back to the UK yet?
In a word , no Rawky
Carnelian posted:I'm sure it does, but I struggle to understand how what I've written isn't correct. Every single budget this lot have taken from the poorest with relish and given to the richest. Ok, so you're fine with that, so what conclusion should I draw?
If you voted for this government that has presided over a doubling of homelessness, food banks - almost unheard of before 2010, arbitrary trumped up sanctions targets that leave people with no money to live on, then that's fine.
If you're comfortable voting for those things while the Tories dole out free money to buy votes and destroy social housing, giving handouts to people who want to buy ÂĢ200k houses and have chucked billions of renters' taxes at maintaining the unaffordable prices of homes.
That's fine, but you support those things and I don't. Regardless of how arrogant I might read, I don't support those things.
You vote for those things, you must like those things. I don't think it's good enough to just blame the Tories for their hypocrisy and class war, their supporters vote for it. Their supporters should step up and account for their choices.
Like it or not, but you put the government that did those things back into office. The Tories will only be as bad as the voters who vote for them will tolerate. The Tories wouldn't pick on the weakest in society if they thought it would make them unelectable to their support base.
The problem with sweeping generalisations is that their broad nature makes them inaccurate.
The danger of assumptions and jumping to conclusions is that they are often incorrect.
I don't have to agree with someone's opinion to respect their right to hold that opinion.
I have no problem with anyone being passionate about their own political views but I do have a problem when someone assumes their views have more validity or veracity than any other.
Tolerance and respect for opposing views, makes for a nicer forum - and world (imo)
*bows out, to enjoy the rest of my birthday*
Baz posted:Oh and at the time I detested Thatcher with a passion .... during her time in office voted Liberal /Social Democrat ....but still banging on about her * reign* nearly 30 years later doesn't strengthen your argument , it weakens it.
No it doesn't because it illustrates that there was and still is a section of the electorate who are doing ok themselves and just don't really care enough about about the consequences to others of what they vote for.
It's not just a difference of opinion. If someone had an opinion that child abuse was a good thing, as some obviously do, would anyone argue that opinion was just another way of looking at the world? Of course not! And so it is with nasty policies like the Bedroom Tax, constant freebies for the rich while cutting vital funds for carers and the disabled. These are fundamentally nasty, bullying antisocial policies.
You are welcome to argue that they not as I describe them and prove me a bigot but, good luck with that!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0735qnh#play
Last caller in particular...about the form he had to fill in
Appointing Crabbe seems like a bit of a sideways move from Cameron.
Maybe no one else wanted it
Cold Sweat posted:Appointing Crabbe seems like a bit of a sideways move from Cameron.
he's a yes man CS, he's voted for every single cut, I think he's perfect to follow in IDS's footsteps if you intend to continue with punishing the less well off and terminally ill
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Cold Sweat posted:Appointing Crabbe seems like a bit of a sideways move from Cameron.
he's a yes man CS, he's voted for every single cut, I think he's perfect to follow in IDS's footsteps if you intend to continue with punishing the less well off and terminally ill
Zackly...Cam's prolly thinking, one less Euro (Septic) to deal with
Cold Sweat posted:Appointing Crabbe seems like a bit of a sideways move from Cameron.
I see what you did there, Cold Sweat. Good one!
Baz posted:Carnelian , with the greatest respect , it is possible to maturely criticise a political party without slandering their supporters . Moreover , what you appear to be advocating is that everyone in the country should vote the same way as you .....the result of which would in effect lead to a totalitarian state .
I hear ...almost as infinitum ....what people/politicians don't like about a sitting parliament ....but the truth is that it is easy to promise the earth whilst in opposition , but almost always ....and inevitably ....those promises fail to translate into policies once they get into power.
But when it comes to the crunch, their supporters voted for those policies. If you vote for something you are indirectly responsible for it. Their voters can't pretend they didn't now about arbitrary sanction targets, bashing the working poor, the bedroom tax, the war on the disabled.
This government is carrying out policies with the mandate of their support base. I'm not advocating everyone vote for the same party as I. That's just spin
There's loads of parties that aren't the same party as I vote for but aren't about kicking the disabled and poorest to give tax cuts to the rich.
Cold Sweat posted:Appointing Crabbe seems like a bit of a sideways move from Cameron.
It took Madame's post ^^^^ before I realised what you'd done.
crabbe or grab what ever the in bred looking bloke calls himself is an odd ball, he supported a group that said they could cure gay people
