I agree Skylark - bound by protocol. 

 

Night

Jim Callaghan wasn't made a Knight of the Garter until 1987, six years after attending Charles and Diana's wedding!  Bound by protocol, my arse!  Make it up as you go along, more like.

If you read back I was referring to them having to have a public wedding.

Och away to your bed Carnelian .......goodnight

Tony/Cherie and Gordon may have had a fractious relationships with royals but it seems extremely petty of the royal family to exclude them if that's the reason - and the reason given is just hiding behind made up so-called etiquette.

 

Thatcher hardly enjoyed a good relationship with Her Maj either.

 

Every royal wedding has had to do the 'etiquette' thing;  this one's no different from what I can see. 

I know 3 men who went off to St. Helena to find themselves a bride too

 

Yes, but the Tories are their people.  Not uppity Labour types who don't fawn at their feet and acknowledge the pompous, self serving protocol.  They may not have liked Thatcher, but they liked her party. The Tories are the pro-royal establishment, especially the likes of Cameron. 

 

It's not etiquette, it's clearly inconsistent and anyway, how pompous and absurd in this day and age that an ex-PM has to be 'Knight of the Garter', whatever that stupid title is supposed to symbolise.  That such a pathetic bauble seems to selectively outrank being the country's PM is just pathetic.

 

Jim Callaghan wasn't made a Knight of the Garter until 1987, six years after attending Charles and Diana's wedding!  Edward Heath in 1992!  Bound by protocol, I don't think so!  Make it up as you go along, more like.

It's not etiquette, it's clearly inconsistent and anyway, how pompous and absurd in this day and age that an ex-PM has to be 'Knight of the Garter', whatever that stupid title is supposed to symbolise.  That such a pathetic bauble seems to selectively outrank being the country's PM is just pathetic.

 

And how pompous that he accepts...?

Or maybe some refuse the offer a few times before finally accepting?

 

I dunno why I'm discussing this because I couldn't care less about it one way or another.

Do you know what Carnelian?

I love posting with you but I disagree with you here.

I love our country

I don't mind the Royal family and quite frankly would MUCH rather have the queen than some anonymous grey suit,

 

We have history and tradition and what the heck is wrong with that?

 

If the money was not spent on pomp and circumstance it would be spent on something else.

 

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN

 

 

So there

Like hospitals or schools

What I meant was Saz is that if we became a republic tomorrow the chances are the money would still be spent on the president and the first lady etc,

It would NEVER be spent on hospitals and schools - not in a million years..

You may disagree with my views on the monarchy, but I assume your love of the monarchy and the country doesn't make them totally beyond reproach .  Regardless of my opinion on the monarchy, the inconsistency is blatant.  If neither Callaghan nor Heath were Knights of the Garter in 1981, then the royals can hardly hide behind etiquette or tradition.. 

 

I think the royals really have to justify why they've been so disrespectful to two Labour PMs hiding behind inconsistent so-called etiquette, really doesn't cut it.

 

So there!

Welll

 

I don't know why! But it is St George's day which has nothing to do witn anything but i was having a moment..

So there

I know, I've got a post it note attached to my monitor to remind me.  If you excuse the fact that it's a hastily drawn red cross on a yellow background, it's quite patriotic! 

I think the royals really have to justify why they've been so disrespectful to two Labour PMs hiding behind inconsistent so-called etiquette, really doesn't cut it.

 

So there!

 

Would you be quite so upset if it had been a couple of ex Tory PM's - or Lib Dems come to that?

In truth, no not so much, but then I'm a little bit partisan. I'd probably find it slightly amusing if I was in a trolling frame of mind.  However, if pressed for an honest opinion, I certainly wouldn't defend the decision and I'd totally agree with anyone who raised the same points I'm raising, but with regard to uninvited Tories.

 

The royals are supposed to be above politics.  I don't have a very high opinion of Tony Blair. Besides, the Lib Dems haven't had any PMs.  All the Liberal ones are now long dead!

 

I know the Lib Dems haven't - it was one of them thingy questions.  Hypothetical, that's it!

 

Aren't all knighthoods etc proposed by the PM to the Queen?

I'm not sure she has that much say in who she has to grant them to?

Where's David Starkey when you need him

I can't be arsed reading through but I must point out that The Queen got on fabulously with Harold Wilson, and not so well with the evil one.

leave her alone.....

Well that's what I thought, Joe.  I'm sure it's been commented on before that she's favoured more Labour PM's than Tories; but I suppose that could be speculation and gossip too.

 

Whatever.  I just hope she smiles on The Day.

 

I don't.  I hope she's caught blowing off and wafting it at Philip.

Cariad - you're not alone .I couldn't give a shit about the royal wedding and I hope it's a fecking disaster.

I'll be in work on the day and it will be on telly so there won't be any escape. but I hope Camilla gets pissed and embarrassing at the reception and I hope Wills can't get it up on the night.

Bollox to all of it.

She'll blame it on a corgi.

 

And shoot it.  It's a sport you know.

So's tossing the caber.

Hmmmm. Living in a country where health services are being reduced, where emergency service staff are losing their jobs (and I think anyone who works in emergency services deserves a hell of a lot more money for the work they do) and where a government is happy splashing out billions to help other countries while they financially cripple their own, I am not finding much to love about this country at the moment. And that's just at an overall level, doesn't include things that are happening on a social level right outside our own front doors.

 

As for asking God to save the Queen - why? I'm not saying that you should be hiring a hitman on her arse or owt but I'm intrigued.

 

I personally can't stand the national anthem and have always refused to sing it, I do not believe in asking God to save the Queen of England when I haven't seen her sacrifice anything to really understand what it's like to be a 'commoner' or risked life and limb for her country, but also because there's other people out there who could do with the prayers more, tbh. If it was God save us all then that'd be different.

Queenie allegedly hated Thatcher, because Thatch had more airs and graces than her! Wouldn't surprise me.

 

I can't believe I posted that!

 

Damn that drunken posting

 

My sober stance on it is this... it is a little bit muddled but here you are.

I used to be a fervent royalist. I bought in to the whole Royal wedding of Diana and Charles and loved all of it.

However like so many of us, when I realised what a sham it was, and coupled with a lot of other things, they began to lose the gloss.

 

I actually do respect the Queen - as a person who has dedicated her whole life in service tothis country and having to have her children's rather seedy private lives aired must have been horrendous. Yes she has enormous wealth etc but at what price?

 

I also think that it would not be the same country were we not to have our monarchy - perhaps it is out of date now, but show me a system that does work.

I would argue that people always need others to toady to - if the Royal family were not here, it would be some celebrity or other.

You are spot on with the rest of the post Karma.When I say I love the country, it is the ordinary people - on the whole we are a decent nation. Just little things that I see day to day and read on here - we do not deserve the leaders we have.

 

As for the national anthem - it is an imperialistic victorian nightmare which I hate and really think we need to change it.

I am really looking forward to the wedding I like William and Kate seems lovely they are our future King and Queen.. hope they have a fabulous day.. and life.. wish them All the Best for the future..

 

Thats what I think when I see all the money being spend on a mahoosive party... it could be so much better spent elsewhere, especially given we're still in/just recovering from recession Probably would be the same with a president, but I dunno... all I can see is waste

I didn't realise you were drunk Issy.

 

I seem to be more full of ranty, indignant vitriol when I'm sober than when I'm drunk on here!

 

I try to keep it light and uncontroversial on here, as I usually vent my spleen on a more politically orientated forum. 

 

But I am a fervent anti-monarchist. I think the whole institution's rotten.

 

While I hope those who are into this whole thing, get whatever vicarious feel good factor that they feel they need to get out of it.  I hope the sun shines and everyone who has one has a nice street party and kids enjoy their ice creams and get their souvenir mugs etc.  If it takes their minds off the state of the country and their own financial problems, then that's probably for the best. 

 

It's only a temporary superficial sticking plaster, which Cameron and our media will no doubt portray as a great social shift. 

 

I'm not patriotic, I don't particularly feel proud of this country when it's one of the most unequal countries in the West, is constantly warmongering and hawking arms to some of the world's worst despots.  I can't feel proud of a family that has invited the Prince of Bahrain (who's killing his own people) to the wedding, while we're spending millions on fighting Gaddaffi, because he's killing his own people.

Yea all those pensioners raising a glass to them as they freeze this winter,due to the cuts in their winter fuel allowance.Bollix!

I agree with you Katty - but on the other hand if it makes those pensioners happy....

 

Don't forget, a lot of them remember the Royal family during the war years and actually, to all intents and purposes they did do a good job of keeping the country's moral high.

Therefore many of the older pensioners probably do have a soft spot for the royal family.

 

Carnelian.

 

I am not necessarily proud of what we do abroad - I love my country though. By that I mean I think the ordinary British person is fundamentally decent. I think our greatest strength is that we do not take ourselves seriously and laugh at ourselves. Look at the St George's thread. The English do not celebrate St George's day because I think we mostly all realise that he is a bit of a duff Saint and because we are so good at mocking ourselves, we are not suddenly going to come all over "OMG isn't England great!"

I see examples of the British spirit all the time and it does make me proud of who I am .I am sure that people will come on here and give loads of examples of how crap we are but I think that as a nation, the ordinary everyday folk are just fine.

Read Bill Bryson's Notes from a small Island to understand where I am trying to come from here.

 

We are let down by our leaders IMO....

 

None of that means anything. Everyone is fundamentally decent regardless of nationality and whether there is a monarchy or not. British spirit? What is that? Leaders all over the world let down their people, but sometimes they inspire them.

See, it's just like any other wedding anywhere in the world, someone's gonna be cheesed off cos they didn't get an invite and bloody thingybob did.

 

The 'wedding' is making huge amounts of money for GB, all those flags etc have to be made and sold by someone, massive tourist puller as well,  hotels (I'd say) will be jammers.

 

I also think people forget what a great country you HAVE. Think of the education that you have, 100 years ago you wouldn't have had it. The NHS again luckily if you become ill you can get help. Freedom of speech, you can discuss the flaws in your country without fear.

 

Woods...trees.

 

Just saying.

Absolutely

We enjoy free speech within certain parameters, free education up to a certain point, however I'm sure that the NHS is completely safe in the Tory hands, and that they don't have plans to take us back to pre 1945 saint clement atlee times.

not many of us can afford a super injunction, mind.

Watching British Royal Weddings on the Beeb.....John Craven was the roving reporter for Charles and Di's