Uncalled for Pirate
you lot an have this vile arsehole as your mate..stick up for her..do what you will
me?
im off
im out
youre stuck with this piece of filth
Pirate, thatâs bang out of order.
Baz posted:Uncalled for Pirate
i like you
but piss off
Yogi19 posted:Pirate, thatâs bang out of order.
you can **** off as well
sticking up for racists
nice
pirate1111 posted:Yogi19 posted:Pirate, thatâs bang out of order.
you can **** off as well
sticking up for racists
nice
I donât stick up for racists, I donât know any - but I defend peopleâs right to hold a different opinion from you, without being abused for it.
Youâve crossed a line, Pirate.
Baz posted:pirate1111 posted:Baz posted:Uncalled for Pirate
i like you
but piss off
Well Iâm a conservative too ....so perhaps youâd better come at me as well !
im gone
much love
very nice
stick to your racist policies
Pirate, where's this thing against Kaytee coming from? Yes, it's ok NOT to see eye to eye on things, but cussing and swearing and other abusive language is a bit much! 
velvet donkey posted:pirate1111 posted:Yogi19 posted:Pirate, thatâs bang out of order.
you can **** off as well
sticking up for racists
nice
I will bet you my bottom Dollar Yogi's not racist.
velvet donkey posted:I will bet you my bottom Dollar Yogi's not racist.
she isn't and neither is Baz or Kaytee...
velvet donkey posted:I know
pirate1111 posted:pirate1111 posted:Kaytee posted:This Windrush thing goes back to when people from ALL colonies came here....no government bothered to cement their rights in law
making life tough for illegal immigrants was a policy of one David Blunkett
all Conservative voters are racist are they?......bollocks!
every government dept and all business has targets
thats it
tories ordering their MP's not to vote to disclose the windrush scandal papers..move along ..nothing to see here
ps
david blunkett new labour AKA tory lite
dont even bother coming up with tories are not racist..its a proven FACT
It's not the 1964 Tory campaign but it is the campaign of a deeply racist Tory who asserted that blacks spread sexual diseases and won his seat by milking racist sentiment. The more repugnant version is "if you want a n*****r for a neighbour vote Liberal or Labour.
velvet donkey posted:It's a free society .
velvet, it is a free society (I liked your reply) but it has to be free within constraint. How many of us would like a new party set up as "The Peadophile Party"?
velvet donkey posted:You've lost it.
How so?
Kaytee posted:pirate1111 posted:Kaytee posted:This Windrush thing goes back to when people from ALL colonies came here....no government bothered to cement their rights in law
making life tough for illegal immigrants was a policy of one David Blunkett
all Conservative voters are racist are they?......bollocks!
every government dept and all business has targets
thats it
tories ordering their MP's not to vote to disclose the windrush scandal papers..move along ..nothing to see here
ps
david blunkett new labour AKA tory lite
dont even bother coming up with tories are not racist..its a proven FACT
Proven fact!......well you obviously know what half the nation think.....a great gift,you're very lucky to have it.....actually I can't be arsed to reply to such sweeping statements.....as you seem to know best
I'm afraid it is a proven fact, the Tories are institutionally racist as proven over Windrush.
They demanded that Labour 'apologise over immigration'. Demanding that Labour apologise for their immigration record is loaded with negative racist assumption. Tories want their cake and to eat it, in that they know that relatively high levels of immigration are currently desirable in an ageing country that isn't replacing itself but at the same time stir the pot of resentment towards immigrants.
Regardless of what Tory voters actually think, the party they vote for panders to racist sentiment routinely.
velvet donkey posted:Carnelian posted:velvet donkey posted:You've lost it.
How so?
Mentioning Peados.
Not at all. It's a free speech argument. It's about levels of 'free speech' we're prepared to tolerate. What is the most repugnant cause people can argue for! If you say "Everybody's entitled to their opinion" then you cannot argue against a Paedophile Party arguing their vile cause - in the name of free speech. And the illegal aspect doesn't cut it because people argue for the legalisation of all sorts of things that are currently prohibited.
Where you draw the line? Personally I draw the line before that 1964 Tory candidate poster because it's incitement to racial hatred.
I guess antisemitism isnât classed as racism then Carnelian 
Letâs face it racism isnât confined to one party ....and if anyone believes it is then they are either blinkered or naive . And for the record , I was around in the 1960s , and trust me , racism wasnât confined to one party then either....in fact Enoch Powellâs rivers of blood speech went down equally well in Labour strongholds 
Baz posted:I guess antisemitism isnât classed as racism then Carnelian
Well, yes it did, the dockers supported him and contemporary polls showed that most people agreed with him at the time - but then most Germans agreed with Hitler in the 1930s and early 1940s.
Well, I'm not sure, the media seems to spend a lot of time distinguishing between the two as if anti-semitism is somehow intollerable but general racism is to be shown empathy - along the lines of "since New Labour's mass immigration, it's no wonder people are getting angry" - which is basically supporting racism. Anyhow, perceptions and reality are two different things.
Surveys show that the Tory members and Tory voters are more anti-semite than Labour voters and members with Lib Dem voters generally being less anti-semite than both Labour and the Tories. So it begs the question why the media has been making this a "Labour only" issue.
http://evolvepolitics.com/new-...n-labour-voters/amp/
Mainstream media and Blairites HATE Corbyn and that includes the Guardian and Independent. It would make their lives so much better if the current Labour leader were Tory lite. So we've had two months of discredited mud slinging about Corbyn being a spy followed by PC - gone mad hysteria over anti-semitism in the Labour Party but ignoring it where it's more common, in the Tory Party.
You may wonder why the right wing billionaire foreign media barons seem to hold the opposition to more scrutiny than the sitting government.
You may also wonder why these Jewish voices seem to have a lot more political clout than the voices of other minorities and how it has been mobilised to attack Corbyn because he is critical of Israeli policy - Corbyn is right to be critical of Israeli policy!
I posted a comment about the Guardian leading on over 600 Palestinian demonstrators being fired on by the Israeli army. This was almost immediately replaced by some very rich Jewish Labour supporter throwing his toys out of his pram by taking his money away. Clearly we know where the Guardian has its priorities.
The behaviour of some people in the Jewish community and the mobilisation of their privilege against Corbyn is likely to increase antisemitic sentiment rather than decrease it.
Carnelian , I may vote Tory at the moment , but I have what I consider a healthy scepticism for ALL politicians ..whatever creed . I donât hate JC ....I donât hate anyone I donât actually know ....but I certainly donât trust him . What does scare me though is the fanatical hero worship Iâve seen for him .....and the pure hate promulgated by some of his supporters .
As for the media , all media has a bias ...no matter where it comes from ....whether a person agrees with the particular *evidence * source depends on whether it suits the argument they are putting forward ....a fact that is so often conveniently forgotten
Baz posted:Carnelian , I may vote Tory at the moment , but I have what I consider a healthy scepticism for ALL politicians ..whatever creed
As for the media , all media has a bias ...no matter where it comes from ....whether a person agrees with the particular *evidence * source depends on whether it suits the argument they are putting forward ....a fact that is so often conveniently forgotten
But our media is loaded heavily to support the Tories and as I have commented, anti-semitism is more common among Tory voters, so why the constant attacks on Labour? It's indefensible that the party of government are given a free ride on this while the opposition are pilloried. A 'free press' is supposed to hold power to account not be the attack dogs of the establishment.
The reason why Corbyn attracts such support is a bunker mentality that finally we've got a proper social democrat leader that intends to roll back the failed policies of Thatcher and Blair and all the Blairites and mainstream media can do is dirty tricks to try and rubbish him and Labour. I'm not a Corbynite, I voted for Andy Burnham originally but Corbyn is the real deal, a man of principle, such principle that he often says things that I wish he wouldn't say and creates a rod for his own back - but he's a man who isn't afraid to put his argument with no care as to what the Daily Mail or Sun might say (unlike Blair) - and has consistently been unpopular with the prevailing public opinion that gave us disastrous policies like one time only council house sales, fire sales of utilities, illegal wars and banking deregulation.
Corbyn isn't a racist or antisemite, in the 80s when Corbyn was demonstrating against apartheid, Cameron was on a jolly in South Africa. That sums up the respective leaders! As for Theresa May, she's a hostage to the Brextremists and will sacrifice this country's economic future to appease dogma driven xenophobes - so I certainly don't trust her!
The Blairites would prefer at Tory government to a Labour government under Corbyn and have tried numerous dirty tricks to get rid of a leader who is more popular with members than Blair ever was.
We had Blair, nothing much happened, in many ways it was business-as-usual. That said, I'd vote for Blair in a heartbeat over this rabble but the days of Tory-lite are over.
I detested Blair and Thatcher in equal measure ....Iâm very politically pragmatic ....but I donât trust JC either ....and tbh I think you....in the widest sense of the word ....will be sorely disappointed by him if he ever does get to power ....heâs a wolf in sheeps clothing imo ....
I don't think so, he's a man of principle and a life long campaigner for equality, justice and fairness - he will make a fine PM rather than the amoral easily swayed coward we have as a PM presently.
Baz posted:I detested Blair and Thatcher in equal measure ....Iâm very politically pragmatic
I really have to disagree Baz...the man you see is the man you meet warts and all. he's the most principled man I have ever met and stuck to those principles in over 30 years. Like Carnelian I wish he would not be so honest at times, he's sat on the back bench for 30 years because he put fairness before promotion. he answers all questions in any interview whether you disagree with him or not. I can tell you from first hand experience he listens and ...makes personal notes and tries to listen to everyone's views.
The media seriously needs to be sorted if we are to remain a democracy 
I don't trust Theresa May. I find her personality quite repellent. I don't think she has any strength of personality nor any moral compass. She has a tendency to be 'brave' and sneering when she has back up - a bit of a bully in fact - and a coward when she doesn't. She can't converse with the public beyond vacuous political cliche and empty soundbites.
She let Amber Rudd take the flak for her own failings and that, to my mind, is just not on. She's so scared of the likes of the right wing press, Jacobb Rees Mogg and other Brextremists that she will do their bidding even though she knows it's wrong for the country. We're going to get 'hard brexit' simply because May wants to stay in No. 10. For May - the office of PM is all and everything else is secondary - there is nothing she won't stoop to to keep herself in that position.
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Baz posted:I detested Blair and Thatcher in equal measure ....Iâm very politically pragmatic
I really have to disagree Baz...the man you see is the man you meet warts and all. he's the most principled man I have ever met and stuck to those principles in over 30 years. Like Carnelian I wish he would not be so honest at times, he's sat on the back bench for 30 years because he put fairness before promotion. he answers all questions in any interview whether you disagree with him or not. I can tell you from first hand experience he listens and ...makes personal notes and tries to listen to everyone's views.
The media seriously needs to be sorted if we are to remain a democracy
I've never met Corbyn but it's good to read an account from someone who has!
Boris Johnson calls Theresa May's Brexit proposals 'crazy' and she does nothing.
If she had any backbone she'd sack him as a cabinet minister and remove the whip from him for being a cabinet minister who has deliberately undermined the prime minister and deliberately flouted cabinet collective responsibility.
I thought John Major was weak but he had vastly more courage about him than May - never mind the 'Iron Lady' Thatcher, John Major wouldn't have put up with such disloyalty. May likes to flatter herself as the modern day Maggie but she simply doesn't have the guts and conviction Thatcher had. Thatcher was driven by ideology - May is driven by amoral self-preservation.
May takes weakness to another level. Corbyn wouldn't stand for such disrespect and cynical positioning. Theresa May: Difficult woman? More like a doormat.
No one knows what goes on behind Westminster closed doors.
Even in care work the back stabbing, gossip mongering, old boys network and down right corruption is rife ... not to mention bullying.
When I raised a fair point of how things weren't being done properly I was told by the bosses,
"You can take us on but you'll lose" (verbatim)
So God knows what people in Government are really like, what deals are done and what blame is wrongfully placed whilst people are too scared to speak out. They are as corrupt as the people they say are corrupt.
One thing never changes ... you don't get to the top by being 'nice' - you can pretend to be nice once you've knocked heads together and got to the top but there's always damage left in the wake of rising above others.
That doesn't mean they can't be principled on the things that matter to them but the people brushed aside and tricks pulled to get where they want to be .... shhhhh
Saint posted:No one knows what goes on behind Westminster closed doors.
Even in care work the back stabbing, gossip mongering, old boys network and down right corruption is rife ... not to mention bullying.
When I raised a fair point of how things weren't being done properly I was told by the bosses,
"You can take us on but you'll lose" (verbatim)
So God knows what people in Government are really like, what deals are done and what blame is wrongfully placed whilst people are too scared to speak out. They are as corrupt as the people they say are corrupt.
One thing never changes ... you don't get to the top by being 'nice' - you can pretend to be nice once you've knocked heads together and got to the top but there's always damage left in the wake of rising above others.
That doesn't mean they can't be principled on the things that matter to them but the people brushed aside and tricks pulled to get where they want to be .... shhhhh
Saint posted:No one knows what goes on behind Westminster closed doors.
Even in care work the back stabbing, gossip mongering, old boys network and down right corruption is rife ... not to mention bullying.
When I raised a fair point of how things weren't being done properly I was told by the bosses,
"You can take us on but you'll lose" (verbatim)
So God knows what people in Government are really like, what deals are done and what blame is wrongfully placed whilst people are too scared to speak out. They are as corrupt as the people they say are corrupt.
One thing never changes ... you don't get to the top by being 'nice' - you can pretend to be nice once you've knocked heads together and got to the top but there's always damage left in the wake of rising above others.
That doesn't mean they can't be principled on the things that matter to them but the people brushed aside and tricks pulled to get where they want to be .... shhhhh
Spot on Renton ...IMHO no politician , no matter what their party or creed ....is whiter than white ...and despite trying to cloak it in supposed altruism ......given half a chance they all ultimately want power ...a fact they prove over, and over .
And that's the problem I have with Politics
A set of beliefs someone else has, that they believe is best from their point of view. Producing a manifesto they believe will work.
And they sell it as a solution to current and future problems.
And every party at some point has doggedly ploughed on with those beliefs regardless of how the world may change.
It's laughable that Politicians will even say a local election defeat was not a 'defeat' as such but a good night 'considering the current climate.'
How many times have you heard a Politician say they made a mistake, they got their manifesto wrong and they need to change direction?
That's why I don't vote
Sainty and Baz, I agree with your posts and Moonie, Iâm hoping youâre right about JC