It seems a smoke and mirror based system to give the Lib Dems further seats which they don't deserve.

Or maybe a system designed to give nearly a quarter of the voters in this country a proper voice? 9% of seats for 23% of the vote just seems vastly unfair to me. But maybe that's too simplistic a view..... being a Labour supporter I'm willing to be convinced otherwise .....

LOL... you sure have But on a serious note.... I do wonder how a referendum would be worded... and how long it would actually take to explain the thing and  set it up.....

Well the actual voters just need to be told to give preferences instead of a cross........ but the referendum would be difficult. How the hell they're ever going to get people to vote yes to something that seems so complicated I don't know!

I imagine it will just boil down to voting along the old party lines.....and therefore be rejected.

That's what I think too..... and if it is, then I think the LD's will have done themselves no favours if they get into bed with Labour.

Now Evens that Cameron takes power. Labour are in from 5/1 to 3/1.
David Milliband is 10/11 to be the next leader. Next election to be 2010 is Evens.

I can also reveal that I backed a 16/1 winner today.

I agree, sadly. But I also think it will work the other way too. Basically they're screwed.

Did you hear Yuk to the first one..... Well done to the second

Interesting

Remember how things look different when examined  under natural light, UV light, IR light and so on? In this case people are examining the results in a different light. The Lib Dems had more votes in Redcar and won the seat. The Tories did the same in my area. I don't have any problems with that. But to tot up all the Lib Dem votes irrespective of seats seems wrong to me. It's fairly obvious that in our two party system most second places are going to be snapped up by the weak LD party.

My money is on Alan Johnson. If Ed Balls gets in  wave bye bye for a bit.. 


Z.

I would rather Johnson than either Balls or Milliband..... Hi Zaphod... did you get  good nights sleep

General Election 2010: Gordon Brown 'launched telephone rant' at Nick Clegg


Gordon Brown launched a "diatribe" and a "rant" at Nick Clegg during a telephone call with the Liberal Democrat leader after it was suggested he should resign, it was reported today.


It was claimed Mr Brown's approach was to begin "a diatribe" and "a rant" and the source said the Labour leader was "threatening in his approach to Nick Clegg".

Mr Clegg was said to have came off the phone assured that it would be impossible to work with Brown because of his attitude towards working with other people.

Number 10 have denied the report of Brown's aggression, describing the chat as "constructive".

In contrast, the Lib Dem source said discussions between Mr Clegg and David Cameron, the Conservative leader, had been "convivial"

Yes thanks Baz.. till 8:30am


Z.

Glad to hear it..... me too..

I heard about that too Squiggle..... Not sure if it is true, but it certainly would not surprise me , after other things that have come to light over the last few weeks....

It's the complete opposite for me...... it seems terribly wrong not too. I can understand the advantages of our current system though, in particular the high probablity of a single majority party and the benefits of that. Somehow the feeling that not everyone is represented fairly just seems to linger for me.

It would be so much simpler if we just had two parties in our two party system.

I'd heard about it Baz but this was the first detail I came across.  The thing that has the ring of truth about it is Brown throwing his rattle out of the pram when the subject of his resignation was raised Nick Clegg is braver than I am.

 But the way I heard it was the GB rang him, not the other way around....

I was there when it popped up on the BBC. They whipped it off again pretty darn quick.... so either the source was not to be trusted or .................. <<< *gap for alternative views*

It has become a soap opera/big brother type load of nonsense. I'm gonna chill my boots and see how things pan out.

Well its all over the net anyway and we are never likely to have it confirmed.  I have seen it on an American site so its fairly widespread.

Both Labour and the Lib-Dems have denied the story. This is currently on the BBC News site:

"The Lib Dems have denied suggestions from a senior Lib Dem source of an angry phone conversation between Mr Brown and Mr Clegg. A Lib Dem spokeswoman said it was "perfectly amicable".

Downing Street said it lasted 40 minutes and concentrated on "process". "


The reason the BBC "whipped the story off" pretty quickly is probably linked to a piece I heard on News 24 where Nick Robinson was questioning the motives of the supposed "leak" of the original story.

As a lib dem voter in Conservative constituency that is likely to remain Conservative til the end of time...    it feels like I have no national vote... simply because of the opinions of my neighbours.   I voted knowing it would make no difference what so ever.... 

it didn't feel very democratic for me.

That's interesting Eugene!

If all three systems are so confusing that the likes of people in this thread are having to go and study it... and discuss it with each other...    I despair!

How can they go to referendum when vast numbers of people will not understand it. 

This makes them rely on the media to interpret the consequences, pros & cons for them....  and they can't be trusted to do that objectively.

there must be a simpler way... a way the majority of the population can understand.

If not, then this suggests that there are other convoluted and overly complicated systems that need to be looked at.

Perhaps all 65 million of us can cram into the Houses of Parliament... seems fair to me


Z.

if... just for a minute... we assume that the public sector are as IT savvy as they should be.... 

then actually we could all "virtually" cram into the Virtual House of Representatives!   Retinal Eye Scans....  cast your vote...  job done.

Ooooooooooooooooooh I have seen the future and I likes it.

btw Jason Statham on C4

*waits for stampede*


Z.

already there.....  I had put it on planner earlier...

He is hotter in this one than the first Transporter

I'd vote for it, I'm all for fairness, irrespective of my personal political leanings

Its true though Ducks....   theoretically many more issues could go to referendum...

Same here Ditty

Oh, that's a shame, that's going to upset an awful lot of people who love to believe nonsense. Thanks for that eugene

Same way as they go to an election?

but at least then they can get a feel for what their vote is standing for.... even if it does boil down to *sigh* class stereotyping.  They think they understand and are involved....  

I shouldn't worry about it really.... I have no doubt the red tops will pull out all the stops and produce some fantastically biased & overly simplified diagrams.

Democracy.....ain't it grand

Sweaty though

hee hee hee baz