The Event: How racist are you?

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Reference:

and it was in the 1960's when people were a lot less tolerant than now- though after reading some of these comments and the things FM have had to put up with are we more tolerant?

I think people are becoming less tolerant TBH.....but to me, there are different layers of racism....one is the colour of someones skin, big deal..most white people spend all year saving to go away and turn themselves brown...lol...

...the other, is Religion...I must admit, this baffles me as everybody is entitled to believe what they want to....I think this is the one that causes most trouble though.

I don't care what anyone is TBH, I just don't want it shoving down my throat as I wouldn't force my beliefs upon anybody. We are all people, who live, love and experience the same emotions....why all the hatred, such a shame???

10/30/094:13 AM

♥PinkBabe1966♥The Angel under the tree!Member

Reference:

I don't care what anyone is TBH, I just don't want it shoving down my throat as I wouldn't force my beliefs upon anybody. We are all people, who live, love and experience the same emotions....why all the hatred, such a shame???

My thoughts exactly.

10/30/094:23 AM

jacksonbMember

Reference:

Thats not an option you've got if you're born with a different skin colour from the majority.And its something very few of us white people understand because its not part of our daily experience.

that's it exactly mazzy, what those on the programme couldn't or wouldn't gasp, is no matter how overtly non racist you believe yourself to be,the fact that we are white and are raised in a white society where the whites have the power,however begnign that is,
we can't help but have a built in ,if unconscious ,comfort in that,whereas the black experience just doesn't encompass that.

10/30/095:02 AM

Former Member

I didn't watch the programme, but from some of the trailers, I knew it would wind me up.

Karma

Cinds

Not much to add, really. How anyone can deny that racism is a thing of the past after watching this programme is beyond me.

10/30/095:33 AM

squiggleMember 10 years

Reference:

that's it exactly mazzy, what those on the programme couldn't or wouldn't gasp, is no matter how overtly non racist you believe yourself to be,the fact that we are white and are raised in a white society where the whites have the power,however begnign that is, we can't help but have a built in ,if unconscious ,comfort in that,whereas the black experience just doesn't encompass that.

The only thing I want people to consider is that this does affect people of all races. There is the story in the paper today of the white boy left brain damaged after being attacked by as gang of Asian boys who, it is alleged, the school was reluctant to reprimand for fear of being thought racist. I know there can be a lot of prejudice from black kids against Asian and vice versa. In this increasingly multi-racial society this is no longer a problem for one side to claim as being totally against them.

10/30/096:00 AM

Former Member

Just off to watch it on 4OD

When I first came to England it was not long after the Pub bombings in Birmingham. I didn't even have to open my mouth for people to hear my then Irish accent to be abused both verbally and physically. I had 'the look of the Irish' and that was enough. I understand why feelings were running high but when you have adults physically abusing children because of where they are from it's just plain wrong. It doesn't always have to be about what colour you are!

10/30/096:36 AM

AngelMember

I watched ..... I love programmes like that .... most interesting to watch.

10/30/096:43 AM

MazzystarMember

Reference:

It doesn't always have to be about what colour you are!

This is true Pengy.My parents were part of the wave of immigrant Irish who arrived here in the 50s.The difference is as generations settle and integrate it is easier for those of us with white skinned heritage to integrate and pass un-noticed in a crowd.I'm very proud of my Irish heritage..in fact I regard myself as Irish for many purposes,but I dont stand out in the way that second generation black and Asians do,and I dont get subjected to discrimination,or judgement on grounds of my looks.This because I've been able to assimilate the appearance of the ruling hegemony.I think this was the point the experiment was trying to make.

10/30/097:09 AM

Karma_Member

Reference:

10/30/097:17 AM

MoonbeamsMember

Reference: Mazzy

Well said Mazzy.

10/30/097:22 AM

Former Member

I totally agree with what you've said Mazzy

I've just watched it on 4OD and I have to say I felt for the mixed raced chappie who refuses to go to his daughters school. I think it's sad that in this day and age you have to be that afraid because of what others might think

Although I do wonder if his daughter knows why he won't go to her school because if she does, then she's agreeing it's acceptable and that's plain wrong.

I also didn't like that teacher that was arguing all the time. Her excuses were weak and I was shocked when she said she didn't realise that black people had pink skin underneath

what did she expect it to be? Green, even deeper black, pink with blue spots? This woman is actually teaching kids! Ignorant, ignorant, ignorant woman

I disagreed with Elliots last statement that all white people are racist but I did agree with her statement that we are conditioned and I feel that largely comes from our parents, community and schooling in early life

It also made me think of another incident a few years ago when I was buying a sandwich. I was routing around in my purse for some money when the white seller asked me what I wanted so I just gave him my order without thinking. My sister tapped my shoulder and said did you not realise that the black girl standing next to you was waiting to give her order before you? I hadn't so I apologised to her and ripped into the sandwich seller but it made me understand the subtle ways in which racism still happens and I felt guilty and complicit in it even though I hadn't intended to be.

I still think this experiment, although it does border on bullying, is worthwhile because if it even gets one person to open their eyes that's one less person who will willingly comply with racism.

On that note I'll shut up

10/30/098:00 AM

Karma_Member

What I liked was the honesty of the 60 year old woman at the end who said that she has seen this country change enormously over the years and found it difficult to accept. I can understand this, but the fact is we do now live in a multi-cultural society where people of all shapes, sizes, religions and colour will interact and breed, and surely it's better to try to educate, understand and accept this and try to live as one as opposed to promoting segregation?

I dont agree with large numbers of immigrants or born and bred citizens of the UK seeing this country as a free meal ticket, regardless of what colour they are. If you want to live in a liberal country like this and enjoy the benefits then bloody try and work for it. I cant stand scroungers who refuse to do bugger all, but the Government has only helped this problem reach the scale it's at today by allowing it to spriral to the depths it has. If they cleaned up their bloody act and made jobseekers do voluntary work whilst looking for permanent paid work it might give the scroungers a good kick up the backside, and would give the likes of Nick Griffin a much weaker argument.

My best friend works for the job centre and deals with jobseekers, new claims and regular sign on's. She said she finds it so frustrating that there are genuine people who have lost their jobs through recession and are desperately trying to get back into work, and then there are those who will clearly never get employed cos they dont want to try and will purposely fail at interviews. She tries to do her job fairly, but has even been told by her management not to waste time scutinising the no-hopers, just to sign them and let them go on their way cos it's not worth the hassle. It's bloody shocking.

Gawd I'm off on one again. Sorry

10/30/098:18 AM

squiggleMember 10 years

I do sometimes wonder whether people who have moved to this country for a better life give a thought to people who have found their home towns swamped with immigrants. I know from first hand experience the situation around Ilford and Romford, Dagenham and Barking and I have a lot of sympathy for people who have been left feeling bewildered and lost and angry. It is terrible that some of those people are among those who have been conned into supporting the BNP. I am sure this is echoed all over the country and to now be told, as we have in the papers over the last few days, that this was a deliberate policy of this government makes me angry and sad.

10/30/099:37 AM

Former Member

Reference:

I do sometimes wonder whether people who have moved to this country for a better life give a thought to people who have found their home towns swamped with immigrants

I bet the Spaniards on the Costa think the same.

10/30/0910:16 AM

Former Member

Reference:

...the other, is Religion...I must admit, this baffles me as everybody is entitled to believe what they want to....I think this is the one that causes most trouble though. I don't care what anyone is TBH, I just don't want it shoving down my throat as I wouldn't force my beliefs upon anybody. We are all people, who live, love and experience the same emotions....why all the hatred, such a shame???

Once religion is pushed securely and entirely into the private domain in this country, I'm happy to let people believe what they want. Until then, the fight is on.

10/30/0910:20 AM

MazzystarMember

Reference:

I do sometimes wonder whether people who have moved to this country for a better life give a thought to people who have found their home towns swamped with immigrants.

Many of us were invited to this country for economic reasons...i.e. to fill a gap in the labour market during the post war years.Yes,it was a better life than the one left behind,but the labour contributed to getting this country back on its feet and enjoying relative affluence during the 60s.It wasnt just a one way thing

10/30/0910:34 AM

Former Member

And really, why should they care anyway? Most people look after themselves first, and other people second.

10/30/0910:36 AM

figtreeMember

Dreadful stories, I am so sorry that this kind of racist behaviour is shown towards anyone but most of all to children! It seems even more incredulous when taunting and bullying is dealt out by other children! So please accept my sorrow if it has happened to you and yours!

I was going to be flippant and say I am not rascist because I hate everyone equally! But your stories do bring home the reality of what happens in this country to some people very,very sad indeed!

10/30/0912:00 PM

Former Member

On the positive side, we're pretty good on the whole in this country. Lots of other countries have hideous and overt racism. In the Czech Republic, you can see people in Prague spitting and shouting abuse at people who look like Roma. Even tourists with 'dusky' skin can get it.

10/30/0912:03 PM

NotyMember

I missed this at the time but someone was telling me about it today and that there was a thread on it, so I watched it on the C4 site and had a read at the thread.

It makes me sick to my stomach reading your experiences in this thread and makes my blood boil.

I was aghast at the arrogance and chosen ignorance of the blonde teacher in the experiment and the guy with the XL belly. I take my hat off to the black woman for not losing her cool. I wonder if they'll watch it back and learn anything.

11/14/092:14 PM

cockney-chickMember

I watched it a few weeks back, and have to say that I found that 60 year old American women doing that project, one of the most putrid women I have ever seen on tv. How dare she assume every white person is racist? What ignorant, narrow-minded, arrogant views. Does she KNOW every white person in the world? I think not!

Maybe her ways of 'trying to teach white people to respect black people better' had a place in the middle of the last century, but it certainly has no place in today's society IMO... That woman would probably be at home with that vile hag who was on that programme that was trying to force people back into work: the one who asked them why they aren't queueing up at KFC and McDonalds.

I noticed the woman found the Brits much harder to bully and intimidate than any other nation though. And she didn't like people questioning her or her dreadful views and opinions either... All she wanted was for everyone to agree that all whites are fundamentally racist. As someone has mentioned earlier, people of colour, are not the only ones who receive harsh or prejudiced treatement. And as for the story of the person serving 'overlooking' the woman who was black (who had been waiting longer,) and serving a white person first; who says it happened just because she was black?! I have had people served first when I have been waiting longer, and have been a bit annoyed, but haven't taken it personally; as sometimes there is no specific queueing system, and it does happen.

I have actually had someone black be served before me, when I was there first! Good grief; was it because I am white?! Of course not! It just happens, and it happens to most people.

Yes of COURSE white people don't know what it's like to be black, like men don't know what it's like to be a woman! But it's not our fault is it, that we were born white and will never know what it's like to be black! And to assume that every white person is racist is a horrible and innaccurate assumption. Moreover, as a few have mentioned, people are bullied and intimidated, and 'kept down' for many reasons, and not just skin colour. I know blacks and people of colour have had a battle in the past, with overt racism, (and indeed in the present sometimes,) but I take great umbrage to the statement that all whites are racist and we have 'no clue' what it's like to receive predudice and hatred from people.

People receive prejudice because of their height, size, sexual preference, disability, class, and gender, amongst may other things. Indeed, not so long back, one of the councils down south, were advertising for jobs and said that WHITE MALES need not apply. Can you imagine the outrage if it had said BLACKS need not apply. It was a disgrace. If the advert had been requesting white people or men only, it would not even have gone to print,

I am glad this woman is giving it up. If I WAS a white person who was a bit racist, that programme would have shifted me into being MORE racist. What a terrible programme and what a horrid, horrid woman.

11/14/092:38 PM

Eugene's LairMember 10 years

Reference frosty Today at 22:38:

Jane Elliott never actually said that "all white people are racist", despite Krishnan Guru-Murthy trying on several occasions to put those words in her mouth.

What she actually said was that white people are brought up in a society that conditions them to be racist. There is a difference.

As Elliott puts it: “You are not born a racist. You have to carefully be taught to be one.”

11/14/093:06 PM

NotyMember

While I can agree that her methods would have more affect in 60s America, I didn't take from it what you took from it at all Frosty. It was an experiment. For a couple of hours. The people who participated knew it was an experiment and they would go back to their lives after it. The point to me was to give white people living in a predominantly white society a tiny insight into what non-white people living in a predominantly white society have to tolerate consistently. What I saw was people who have never experienced a situation, telling people who have experienced a situation, to their face, aggressively, that the situation doesn't exist, and that dealing with sometimes disgraceful abuse or sometimes just being treated differently, perhaps on a day to day basis, could be somehow compared to the trauma of having to wear clothes you don't like to socialise in or having difficulty finding t-shirts to cover your gut

11/14/093:09 PM

Soozy WooMember

Reference:

Yes of COURSE white people don't know what it's like to be black, like men don't know what it's like to be a woman! But it's not our fault is it, that we were born white and will never know what it's like to be black! And to assume that every white person is racist is a horrible and innaccurate assumption. Moreover, as a few have mentioned, people are bullied and intimidated, and 'kept down' for many reasons, and not just skin colour.

Great post IMO. I have black friends, Indian friends, gay friends and ..........lots of friends TBH. It is an insult to lump people together and say that all these are racist, homophobic or whatever. I honestly and truly take people as they come ...........if I like them - I like them - if I dont I dont .............I tend to judge on personality TBH.

11/14/093:14 PM

NotyMember

Reference:

Jane Elliott never actually said that "all white people are racist", despite Krishnan Guru-Murthy trying on several occasions to put those words in her mouth. What she actually said was that white people are brought up in a society that conditions them to be racist. There is a difference. As Elliott puts it: “You are not born a racist. You have to carefully be taught to be one.”

Exactly Eugene

11/14/093:15 PM

cockney-chickMember

Well she may have said we are conditioned to be racist, but I know what she meant. her whole attitude during the show told me that. She may have worded it conveniently to make it sound like she wasn't saying that, but IMO, that is what she was saying.

And NOTY, I respect what you're saying, and I guess it 'was' just an experiment,' but I found the whole thing very offensive. I am really sorry for anyone who has to tolerate racism and especially the chap who was mixed, and said he won't pick his daughter up because people will see she is a quarter black, but being accused of being overtly racist,pisses me off. Everyone I know has different problems for different reasons, (being gay, being 4 ft 7, being asian, being a woman, being Irish, being very busty and blonde, having 7 childen by 4 fathers (obviously a slag people say, and she can't get a job because people assume she will be unreliable,) well it just makes my blood boil for it to be assumed that all white are racist and we have no problems; ever. Whatever that woman said, she WAS implying that.

11/14/093:16 PM

NotyMember

Reference:

Well I think most people can say that (I hope most) but unfortunately not all.

Of course there are many prejudices in society that people of every colour have to go through. But this experiment was about racism.

I didn't feel Elliot was accusing, for example, the blonde teacher of being a racist. I think the blonde teacher showed a complete disdain for what the black woman was trying to tell her. She wasn't telling her that every white person treats her with racial prejudice, she was saying that some do, and to be on the "blue eyed" side you could have a tiny snippet of that experience. The blonde teacher refused to open her mind to try to understand that, and just kept shouting louder and getting more defensive.

11/14/093:22 PM

cockney-chickMember

Reference:

Thanks Soozy. I didn't think my post would be received well, and it may piss people off, but I can't lie or be a hypocrite, and I did find the show - and that woman, quite vile. Obviously, some people thought the show was fab, and that it highlighted all the problems with racism and so on, but I saw it quite differently, and found it grossly offensive. I am fully aware of all the problems experienced by blacks over the years and decades and centuries, (and I am genuinely sorry for this, and sorry for anyone of colour who receives harsh treatment in modern times,) but I don't need a narrow minded old woman, telling me that I am 'conditioned to be racist,' and that I need to get a clue.

11/14/093:25 PM

Soozy WooMember

Reference:

Hands up ........didn't watch the programee - I was just sticking my oar in as I'm wont to do. will back out now.

11/14/093:26 PM

NotyMember

Frosty, if somebody told me, personally, that I was a racist, purely because I'm white, then of course I would be enraged and offended by the blatant racism of that LOL. But watching that did not make me feel personally attacked. I just saw an experiment where white people had an opportunity to gain an understanding, not a full understanding but a glimpse, into a situation they are fortunate enough never to have to experience.

11/14/093:30 PM

cockney-chickMember

LOL Soozy. Gotta go myself now ... I hope I haven't offended anyone: It's just my views and opinions. I just thought the show - and that woman too - was absolutely awful. And as soozy said, to lump everyone together like that woman did, was wrong, as IMO if someone white WAS a bit racist, it would make them more racist than they were before. Gotta fly!

NOTY, let's agree to differ, as I saw it COMPLETELY differently to you.

11/14/093:32 PM

NotyMember

Reference:

Hands up ........didn't watch the programee - I was just sticking my oar in as I'm wont to do. will back out now.

Yep I'm off too. The programme's worth watching by the way. It's on the C4 site

11/14/093:32 PM

Eugene's LairMember 10 years

Reference frosty 128 Today at 23:16:

I think you've got her wrong there. Elliott has been challenged over this over many years and she has always been consistent in her denials. Her claim that racism is taught is not a convenient cover - it's absolutely central to the whole concept of her exercise. If racism wasn't learnt, it wouldn't be possible to unlearn it as she claims.

Yes, Elliott is very aggressive in her courses, and this is the main complaint made against her. Even many of her supporters criticize her about it as they consider it counter-productive. As I said in a much earlier post, I think her aggressiveness is something that has developed over the years because she found from experience (as she said right at the start of the show) that if she's "soft", the exercise isn't as effective.

11/14/093:34 PM

NotyMember

Reference:

NOTY, let's agree to differ, as I saw it COMPLETELY differently to you

No worries Frosty. We saw it completely differently is all

11/14/094:00 PM

stonksMember

Reference:

I watched it a few weeks back, and have to say that I found that 60 year old American women doing that project, one of the most putrid women I have ever seen on tv. How dare she assume every white person is racist? What ignorant, narrow-minded, arrogant views. Does she KNOW every white person in the world? I think not! Maybe her ways of 'trying to teach white people to respect black people better' had a place in the middle of the last century, but it certainly has no place in today's society IMO... That woman would probably be at home with that vile hag who was on that programme that was trying to force people back into work: the one who asked them why they aren't queueing up at KFC and McDonalds. I noticed the woman found the Brits much harder to bully and intimidate than any other nation though. And she didn't like people questioning her or her dreadful views and opinions either... All she wanted was for everyone to agree that all whites are fundamentally racist. As someone has mentioned earlier, people of colour, are not the only ones who receive harsh or prejudiced treatement. And as for the story of the person serving 'overlooking' the woman who was black (who had been waiting longer,) and serving a white person first; who says it happened just because she was black?! I have had people served first when I have been waiting longer, and have been a bit annoyed, but haven't taken it personally; as sometimes there is no specific queueing system, and it does happen. I have actually had someone black be served before me, when I was there first! Good grief; was it because I am white?! Of course not! It just happens, and it happens to most people. Yes of COURSE white people don't know what it's like to be black, like men don't know what it's like to be a woman! But it's not our fault is it, that we were born white and will never know what it's like to be black! And to assume that every white person is racist is a horrible and innaccurate assumption. Moreover, as a few have mentioned, people are bullied and intimidated, and 'kept down' for many reasons, and not just skin colour. I know blacks and people of colour have had a battle in the past, with overt racism, (and indeed in the present sometimes,) but I take great umbrage to the statement that all whites are racist and we have 'no clue' what it's like to receive predudice and hatred from people. People receive prejudice because of their height, size, sexual preference, disability, class, and gender, amongst may other things. Indeed, not so long back, one of the councils down south, were advertising for jobs and said that WHITE MALES need not apply. Can you imagine the outrage if it had said BLACKS need not apply. It was a disgrace. If the advert had been requesting white people or men only, it would not even have gone to print, I am glad this woman is giving it up. If I WAS a white person who was a bit racist, that programme would have shifted me into being MORE racist. What a terrible programme and what a horrid, horrid woman.

Bloody brilliant post....

11/14/096:30 PM

Former Member

Not related to the programme at all but I had an odd experience at work on Friday. Someone I talk to quite regularly and get on with mentioned Gordon Brown's alleged new willingness to tackle immigration and talk about it. The discussion then ran through the whole gamut of points one after another that I often see here: immigrants swamping the place, jumping housing queues and preferential treatment, not paying into the system first, immediately getting into the benefits system, mistakes about asylum seekers vs economic immigrants, damage to so-called traditional culture, and even the famous Winterval myth and how Christmas is being banned. As most of this is actually bollocks, I'm intrigued about where all this sort of stuff comes from and how it's taken hold in the popular imagination. It's like a very successful meme, building on itself and on people's fears. Perhaps it is a meme.

11/14/0911:02 PM

PussMember

Young children don't seem to have a problem with Race/Religion We should all take a leaf out of their books - Ref. Real

Sorry don't know what I did there with copying and pasting!

Would just like to say, thats a very good statement Real.

I didn't see the programme unfortunately, but would just like to add that I was born and raised in Dagenham until the late 80's, and believe me, parents DID raise their children to be rascist. Luckily I managed to get away from that place and it's religion, but must say, 2 years ago I actually threw my father out of my house because of his ramblings to MY children who actually didn't have a clue what he was on about, thank god.

The innocence of children should be allowed to stay and not be poisoned by these evil monsters.

11/14/0911:54 PM

Former Member

Reference:

As Elliott puts it: “You are not born a racist. You have to carefully be taught to be one.”

Is that actually true? Aren't we born to favour kin first, then kin-bonding, then tribe, and so on?

11/15/091:13 AM

SniperMember

Reference: As Elliott puts it: “You are not born a racist. You have to carefully be taught to be one.” Is that actually true? Aren't we born to favour kin first, then kin-bonding, then tribe, and so on?

I would concur that it is 'actually true'. The various identities you've pointed out, aren't just 'naturally' obtained, but are socially constructed through social interaction's. I'm just passing through, so, apologies if I don't respond in a timely fashion to any posts.

11/15/091:30 AM

fabienneMember

Reference: Daniel

Yes, it seems to be a set of beliefs that loads of people just assume to be true. I hear it from time to time. I'm never sure what to say, as it's quite difficult to come up with all the facts on the spur of the moment. I'm sorry to say, I usually say nothing and just fume inwardly.

11/15/091:38 AM

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