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quote:
Originally posted by Tiddly~Wink:
My Dad swore he would live for his full 3 score years and 10 to spite hitler. He witnessed the horror, that was discovered in the 'camps' and called his time after the war his 'bonus years'. He died peacefully, and in his own bed at the age of 84. He'll always be my hero!

My husband's father was one of those who liberated one of the concentration camps (can't remember which it was now).

He also captured two German Soldiers near Neimegen (young lads of just 17 they were). One of the lads carved a piece of wood into a pair of clogs which he gave to my father-in-law and we now have them in our possession.

They're only small and I have them hanging over a mirror in the hall. Every time I touch them, I wonder what happened to those young German Soldiers - did they make it, are they alive today etc.
HyacinthB
quote:
Originally posted by Hollygolightly:
OHG I am going to leave this thread now because I feel as a German /Irish person I am not best placed to start speaking about the war, not dispassionately anyway.

Nothing can condone what Hitler did, nor his 'thugs' as you called them but there were devastating losses on all sides, indeed the British saw fit to send thugs of their own in the form of Black and Tans to patrol Ireland. They were vicious ex-criminals that terrorized a neutral country. They were not soldiers fighting for any cause.

Please know though that I do so support the D Day memorial and hope the world never experiences wars like WW1 and WW2.
Hope this hasn't upset anyone but couldn't sit back and not say anything.


not a problem Holly, I am NOT proud of EVERYTHING my country has done, especialy when it comes to Ireland,
but we are just showing our appreciation for the brave souls who fought against Hitler, MANY Irishmen (from the south and the north) joined the British army to fight Hitler even though it meant joining the British army, because they knew that Hitler was an even greater evil,
and their contribution is just as appreciated here as well, Nod
old hippy guy
quote:
Originally posted by HyacinthB:
quote:
Originally posted by Tiddly~Wink:
My Dad swore he would live for his full 3 score years and 10 to spite hitler. He witnessed the horror, that was discovered in the 'camps' and called his time after the war his 'bonus years'. He died peacefully, and in his own bed at the age of 84. He'll always be my hero!

My husband's father was one of those who liberated one of the concentration camps (can't remember which it was now).

He also captured two German Soldiers near Neimegen (young lads of just 17 they were). One of the lads carved a piece of wood into a pair of clogs which he gave to my father-in-law and we now have them in our possession.

They're only small and I have them hanging over a mirror in the hall. Every time I touch them, I wonder what happened to those young German Soldiers - did they make it, are they alive today etc.


That's the other side to it all isn't it Hy? Dad found an old sewing machine outside a bombed building, and he and his men loaded it onto the back of his jeep. The intention was to somehow, bring it back as a present for my Mum. They stopped for a break, and a young German woman, brought them a cool drink, and as payment for her kindness, they gave the machine to her. My Dad who was a non smoker, also gave her some of his 'allocated army issue' cigarettes. Of course she burst into tears and after much kissing and hugging, they exchanged names and addresses. We got many letters and cards from her over the years, and every one started with 'My Dear Brother George'. Long story short......she started her own Dressmaking business, and told anyone and everyone, it was thanks to her Scottish Soldier. What a day for remembering with compassion, that as we say in Scotland (and I love this saying and song) A man's a Man for a' That! Hug
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Tiddly~Wink:
quote:
Originally posted by HyacinthB:
quote:
Originally posted by Tiddly~Wink:
My Dad swore he would live for his full 3 score years and 10 to spite hitler. He witnessed the horror, that was discovered in the 'camps' and called his time after the war his 'bonus years'. He died peacefully, and in his own bed at the age of 84. He'll always be my hero!

My husband's father was one of those who liberated one of the concentration camps (can't remember which it was now).

He also captured two German Soldiers near Neimegen (young lads of just 17 they were). One of the lads carved a piece of wood into a pair of clogs which he gave to my father-in-law and we now have them in our possession.

They're only small and I have them hanging over a mirror in the hall. Every time I touch them, I wonder what happened to those young German Soldiers - did they make it, are they alive today etc.


That's the other side to it all isn't it Hy? Dad found an old sewing machine outside a bombed building, and he and his men loaded it onto the back of his jeep. The intention was to somehow, bring it back as a present for my Mum. They stopped for a break, and a young German woman, brought them a cool drink, and as payment for her kindness, they gave the machine to her. My Dad who was a non smoker, also gave her some of his 'allocated army issue' cigarettes. Of course she burst into tears and after much kissing and hugging, they exchanged names and addresses. We got many letters and cards from her over the years, and every one started with 'My Dear Brother George'. Long story short......she started her own Dressmaking business, and told anyone and everyone, it was thanks to her Scottish Soldier. What a day for remembering with compassion, that as we say in Scotland (and I love this saying and song) A man's a Man for a' That! Hug


Gulp.. Crying

Humanity will see through,we hope.
kattymieoww
quote:
That's the other side to it all isn't it Hy? Dad found an old sewing machine outside a bombed building, and he and his men loaded it onto the back of his jeep. The intention was to somehow, bring it back as a present for my Mum. They stopped for a break, and a young German woman, brought them a cool drink, and as payment for her kindness, they gave the machine to her. My Dad who was a non smoker, also gave her some of his 'allocated army issue' cigarettes. Of course she burst into tears and after much kissing and hugging, they exchanged names and addresses. We got many letters and cards from her over the years, and every one started with 'My Dear Brother George'. Long story short......she started her own Dressmaking business, and told anyone and everyone, it was thanks to her Scottish Soldier. What a day for remembering with compassion, that as we say in Scotland (and I love this saying and song) A man's a Man for a' That!

What a wonderful story Tiddly and what a wonderful relationship ensued as a result.

Lovely gesture from your Dad.
HyacinthB
quote:
Originally posted by HyacinthB:
quote:
That's the other side to it all isn't it Hy? Dad found an old sewing machine outside a bombed building, and he and his men loaded it onto the back of his jeep. The intention was to somehow, bring it back as a present for my Mum. They stopped for a break, and a young German woman, brought them a cool drink, and as payment for her kindness, they gave the machine to her. My Dad who was a non smoker, also gave her some of his 'allocated army issue' cigarettes. Of course she burst into tears and after much kissing and hugging, they exchanged names and addresses. We got many letters and cards from her over the years, and every one started with 'My Dear Brother George'. Long story short......she started her own Dressmaking business, and told anyone and everyone, it was thanks to her Scottish Soldier. What a day for remembering with compassion, that as we say in Scotland (and I love this saying and song) A man's a Man for a' That!

What a wonderful story Tiddly and what a wonderful relationship ensued as a result.

Lovely gesture from your Dad.


He cried many times over the years, but never for himself... God Bless 'em all!
FM
quote:
Originally posted by old hippy guy:
I have just been watching the veterans on tv, old men now,
but they were just kids 65 years ago, and I would love to be able to shake each and everyone of them by the hand and give them a hug and say THANK YOU, you ARE appreciated, Nod



my sentiments entirely Clapping my Father fought in the 2nd world war, thanks for posting this tribute to all the brave veterans
jessejay
quote:
Originally posted by Tiddly~Wink:
quote:
Originally posted by HyacinthB:
quote:
Originally posted by Tiddly~Wink:
My Dad swore he would live for his full 3 score years and 10 to spite hitler. He witnessed the horror, that was discovered in the 'camps' and called his time after the war his 'bonus years'. He died peacefully, and in his own bed at the age of 84. He'll always be my hero!

My husband's father was one of those who liberated one of the concentration camps (can't remember which it was now).

He also captured two German Soldiers near Neimegen (young lads of just 17 they were). One of the lads carved a piece of wood into a pair of clogs which he gave to my father-in-law and we now have them in our possession.

They're only small and I have them hanging over a mirror in the hall. Every time I touch them, I wonder what happened to those young German Soldiers - did they make it, are they alive today etc.


That's the other side to it all isn't it Hy? Dad found an old sewing machine outside a bombed building, and he and his men loaded it onto the back of his jeep. The intention was to somehow, bring it back as a present for my Mum. They stopped for a break, and a young German woman, brought them a cool drink, and as payment for her kindness, they gave the machine to her. My Dad who was a non smoker, also gave her some of his 'allocated army issue' cigarettes. Of course she burst into tears and after much kissing and hugging, they exchanged names and addresses. We got many letters and cards from her over the years, and every one started with 'My Dear Brother George'. Long story short......she started her own Dressmaking business, and told anyone and everyone, it was thanks to her Scottish Soldier. What a day for remembering with compassion, that as we say in Scotland (and I love this saying and song) A man's a Man for a' That! Hug


That's a great story Tiddly~Wink and reading through it what occurs to me is that people on both sides were fighting and killing each other. children losing their dads and wives their husbands, sons, brothers and all so that some mad men can dream their sick dreams of world dominance.
squiggle
quote:
Originally posted by HyacinthB:
quote:
Originally posted by Tiddly~Wink:
My Dad swore he would live for his full 3 score years and 10 to spite hitler. He witnessed the horror, that was discovered in the 'camps' and called his time after the war his 'bonus years'. He died peacefully, and in his own bed at the age of 84. He'll always be my hero!

My husband's father was one of those who liberated one of the concentration camps (can't remember which it was now).



I would think that your FIL liberated Bergen-Belsen.
Garage Joe
quote:
Originally posted by Hollygolightly:
OHG I am going to leave this thread now because I feel as a German /Irish person I am not best placed to start speaking about the war, not dispassionately anyway.

Nothing can condone what Hitler did, nor his 'thugs' as you called them but there were devastating losses on all sides, indeed the British saw fit to send thugs of their own in the form of Black and Tans to patrol Ireland. They were vicious ex-criminals that terrorized a neutral country. They were not soldiers fighting for any cause.

.


I would never stick up for the Black and Tans, my Father in Law would never forgive me, but they committed their evil acts in the very early twenties when strictly speaking an Irish civil war was taking place.
All the same some amusing stories do come out of wartime Ireland. I'm sure I read somewhere that they had both German and Allied detainees, and they were allowed out for a drink of a night as long as they didn't cause trouble. I'm sure someone was making a film about this.
Garage Joe
quote:
Originally posted by Garage Joe:
quote:
Originally posted by HyacinthB:
quote:
Originally posted by Tiddly~Wink:
My Dad swore he would live for his full 3 score years and 10 to spite hitler. He witnessed the horror, that was discovered in the 'camps' and called his time after the war his 'bonus years'. He died peacefully, and in his own bed at the age of 84. He'll always be my hero!

My husband's father was one of those who liberated one of the concentration camps (can't remember which it was now).



I would think that your FIL liberated Bergen-Belsen.

my dad was in the army in the 60s and was serving in the then west Germany and my mum and the rest of us went over there and lived in the "married quaters" on the army base, we lived in a little place called "Honne" 2 miles from a village......called Bergen-Belsen,
I still remember being a 10 year old boy when my dad took me to see the memorials at the camp,...huge mounds of grass with sTone monuments on them with " here lie 10.000 dead" and there were quite a few of these mounds, a thing like that sticks in your mind for EVER,.....
NEVER AGAIN Nod
old hippy guy
Its all very humbling and moving. If only it had been the last war ever fought.

Its strange to think that my daughter will probably never speak to anyone that actually lived through it. Not last rememberance day, but the one before she asked if she could buy a flower from the old man in his little car (a veteran sat on his granny chariot selling poppies wearing his medals and beret). As I was pinning it on her I explained how it is to show how grateful we are to all the brave people that died in a terrible war many years ago and the money helps look after them now they are old and to help the families of soldiers that still fight in wars today. An old lady overheard me and told me how lovely it was to hear a young person passing that information on to an even younger generation and what a wonderful mother I am. That made me feel very proud but also very sad that what I was doing was such a rare thing that it prompted one stranger to approach another and say something.
eleven of nine
I'm mostly with Wilfred Owen on the war. It's a shitty, nasty, disgusting, brutish thing devoid of any of the glory in which the military sometimes tries to wrap it up, and something we should avoid at almost all costs.

That said, out of all of that vile conflict come some of the most inpsiring and heroic acts by individuals who were just simple everyday people really. It's almost a compensation, knowing that when the chips are really down people tend to ditch their petty detail and self-interest and become capable of great things.

I'm not a great fan of the 2 minutes silence every November to remember the war dead. It feels too trivial really against the backdrop of our daily lives. But events like today are well worth it for focusing the mind. When you hear veterans talk about what went on, the underlying emotion is almost solid it's so strong. It's awe-inspiring really to think what it must have been like.

I still think we ought to approach these war memorials in a particular frame of mind though: mostly a profound disgust at war and then after that a respect for what people did and went through. Seifried Sassoon captures it, I think:

I knew a simple soldier boy
Who grinned at life in empty joy,
Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
And whistled early with the lark.

In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
He put a bullet through his brain.
No one spoke of him again.

You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you’ll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by eleven of nine:
Its all very humbling and moving. If only it had been the last war ever fought.

Its strange to think that my daughter will probably never speak to anyone that actually lived through it. Not last rememberance day, but the one before she asked if she could buy a flower from the old man in his little car (a veteran sat on his granny chariot selling poppies wearing his medals and beret). As I was pinning it on her I explained how it is to show how grateful we are to all the brave people that died in a terrible war many years ago and the money helps look after them now they are old and to help the families of soldiers that still fight in wars today. An old lady overheard me and told me how lovely it was to hear a young person passing that information on to an even younger generation and what a wonderful mother I am. That made me feel very proud but also very sad that what I was doing was such a rare thing that it prompted one stranger to approach another and say something.

What a lovely story - thanks for relaying it to us and yes, indeed, you should feel proud for imparting that knowledge to your daughter even though you're still so young yourself.
HyacinthB
quote:
Originally posted by Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing:
My dad was in the Navy, he was 19 years old and was on one of the landing craft that shipped and landed the soldiers. He had a good few 'war-time' tales to tell. Some funny, some sad. I don't recall him ever actually specifying at which beach they landed though. He would only be 84 if he were still alive.

Bless him Fluffy and bless all our lovely old veterans.
HyacinthB
quote:
I'm not a great fan of the 2 minutes silence every November to remember the war dead. It feels too trivial really against the backdrop of our daily lives. But events like today are well worth it for focusing the mind. When you hear veterans talk about what went on, the underlying emotion is almost solid it's so strong. It's awe-inspiring really to think what it must have been like.

I always observe the 2 minute silence in honour of my father and all those other brave men and women who gave their lives so we could be free.

It isn't asking for much.
HyacinthB
quote:
Originally posted by Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing:
My dad was in the Navy, he was 19 years old and was on one of the landing craft that shipped and landed the soldiers. He had a good few 'war-time' tales to tell. Some funny, some sad. I don't recall him ever actually specifying at which beach they landed though. He would only be 84 if he were still alive.

My husband's Uncle Bill was in the Navy - got sunk three times (now that is what I do call 'unlucky')!!

Whenever I used to see Del Boy's Uncle Albert relating how many times he got sunk in the War, I always remembered Uncle Bill and smiled.
HyacinthB
Thought it might be worth printing this poem about the ordinary soldier (it is long, apologies for that)

Tommy, by Rudyard Kipling


I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool,you bet that Tommy sees!
squiggle
quote:
Originally posted by HyacinthB:
quote:
I'm not a great fan of the 2 minutes silence every November to remember the war dead. It feels too trivial really against the backdrop of our daily lives. But events like today are well worth it for focusing the mind. When you hear veterans talk about what went on, the underlying emotion is almost solid it's so strong. It's awe-inspiring really to think what it must have been like.

I always observe the 2 minute silence in honour of my father and all those other brave men and women who gave their lives so we could be free.

It isn't asking for much.

I'm not saying it's an effort. Just that it seems like a formality and therefore something without enough meaning.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by HyacinthB:
quote:
Originally posted by Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing:
My dad was in the Navy, he was 19 years old and was on one of the landing craft that shipped and landed the soldiers. He had a good few 'war-time' tales to tell. Some funny, some sad. I don't recall him ever actually specifying at which beach they landed though. He would only be 84 if he were still alive.

My husband's Uncle Bill was in the Navy - got sunk three times (now that is what I do call 'unlucky')!!

Whenever I used to see Del Boy's Uncle Albert relating how many times he got sunk in the War, I always remembered Uncle Bill and smiled.
That also reminds me of the hilarity my dad told us about every time the squads heard 'Lord Hawhaw' on the radio proudly telling that HMS HOOD had been sunk, because HMS Hood was a naval land base in WWII, although it had been a real ship previously. Big Grin
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing
Thank you OHG! I was watching it earlier on the BBC and told my husband that it should be on all channels and compulsary to watch.

I was sobbing (but I'm a soppy old cow) seeing the old men (now) and thinking how horrendous it must have been for them and the families they left behind.

65 years later and the appreciation for these soldiers seems to be waning. People bang on about their rights, but what about their responsiblilities?

I will never forget the sacrifices these soldiers made.
FM
quote:
That also reminds me of the hilarity my dad told us about every time the squads heard 'Lord Hawhaw' on the radio proudly telling that HMS HOOD had been sunk, because HMS Hood was a naval land base in WWII, although it had been a real ship previously.

HMS Hood was sunk in 1941 Fluffy by the Bismarck. I think nearly all hands were lost.
HyacinthB
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel J*:
quote:
Originally posted by HyacinthB:
quote:
I'm not a great fan of the 2 minutes silence every November to remember the war dead. It feels too trivial really against the backdrop of our daily lives. But events like today are well worth it for focusing the mind. When you hear veterans talk about what went on, the underlying emotion is almost solid it's so strong. It's awe-inspiring really to think what it must have been like.

I always observe the 2 minute silence in honour of my father and all those other brave men and women who gave their lives so we could be free.

It isn't asking for much.

I'm not saying it's an effort. Just that it seems like a formality and therefore something without enough meaning.

I think it does have meaning as it marks the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month when the Armistice was signed in World War I.

Quite an appropriate time to commemorate such an historic event.
HyacinthB

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