quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
One notes in today's Grauniad that the Archbeako has said that the priests and such who committed abuse are courageous for owning up to their past.
Surely it's only a matter of time before the victims are condemned for making such a song and dance about it.

Exactly!

quote:

Originally posted by Blizzie:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
One notes in today's Grauniad that the Archbeako has said that the priests and such who committed abuse are courageous for owning up to their past.
Surely it's only a matter of time before the victims are condemned for making such a song and dance about it.

Exactly!

Blizzie, its happened already. An abused boy came forward a few years back to blow the lid on the priests who abused him and (incredible as this seems) his homosexuality was used as a weapon against him. (ie. well you're a deviant so you must have deserved whatever the priests did to you!) You really couldn't make it up! The stories on the Irish news last night had me in tears and also seething with rage.

quote:

Originally posted by Syd:
You could also put into the pot of the equation..

(I am in no way excusing any behaviour, but highlighting the sinister hold of the church)..

the young men and women 'shoved' into the priesthood, Nunnery & Christian Brothers because the Church led their families to believe it was their duty.

It might have been their *duty* to join the priesthood but not to have sex with children..9 years it takes to become a priest..these were fully grown men wanting and taking a childs innocents....

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
One notes in today's Grauniad that the Archbeako has said that the priests and such who committed abuse are courageous for owning up to their past.
Surely it's only a matter of time before the victims are condemned for making such a song and dance about it.

There is a big uproar in Ireland over this statement this morning.He'll be sorry he ever said that....

quote:

Originally posted by stonks:

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:
One notes in today's Grauniad that the Archbeako has said that the priests and such who committed abuse are courageous for owning up to their past.
Surely it's only a matter of time before the victims are condemned for making such a song and dance about it.

There is a big uproar in Ireland over this statement this morning.He'll be sorry he ever said that....

'Courageous'..............

I promised myself I'd stay out of this thread, but I have to say me piece

I'm sick to death of 'it wasn't only the Irish...the catholics...the christian brothers' get out clause. I couldn't give a monkeys who else was doing it...that fact IS that the Irish, the catholics and the christian brothers were doing it. End of. It's not something that we can excuse away and it's something we should be utterly ashamed of.

There is a point though, it wasn't ONLY the catholic church, it was the state, it was society, it was a mindset of move these people around and do nothing. Part of the report focused on one particular ex Christian Brother...Ex because they threw him out his deeds were that bad...they threw him out on the Friday with a letter from the Christian Brothers order stating he shouldn't be allowed teach for the dangers he poses to children, on the Monday he had a job teaching as a lay teacher in another school. His abuses were relayed to the Department of Education, the Gardai and to the Church and NOTHING was done. He was allowed to move from school to school and continue abusing boys and girls, breaking limbs, and doing whatever else to them.

Another Christian Brother was interviewed by the commission...he said when he started teaching he was told by the other brothers that they had to 'break' the children, it was the only way to gain authority over them. If he didn't do it he would be walked all over. He refused, but got consistent badgering from his seniors, he had to break the children, he had to do it...so one day he punched this boy in the face...when he got back to the other Brothers they applauded him. This is not a lie, or exaggerated story, this is evidence by the Brother given in the report.

Still to this day, the Christian Brothers, the Catholic Church and the state are fighting to keep a lid on all of this. There is no real transparency. This report was confined only to Residential Schools, it didn't delve into day to day schools, or detail those who abused in the community, it only dealt with one part of the schools. Why didn't it go further? Why didn't they open the floodgates for once and for all and let all those who suffered finally have their say? Because there's still the mindset of brush it under the carpet.

Irish Society needed a shake up...the whole mentality of children should be seen and not heard and respect your elders at all costs was prevalent well into the 80's and 90's and was such that many children felt they had no one to turn to. And for those who did, look at the uphill battle they're facing now.

Ireland needs to forget this 'it's not only us' bull crap and recognise that it WAS us deal with it, give these people some transparency and help them find some piece of closure.

I feel I've waffled on and I know long posts don't get read...but I really just had to get that out

If Bov asks you didn't see me

quote:

Originally posted by Templetonpeck:
If Bov asks you didn't see me

*taps side of nose*

Wow - well said Temps for that erudite and extremely eloquent post.

A very interesting read - thank you.

Yes, great post, Temps.

I do feel better now I have to say ....right I'm off to watch the A-Team

Temps....

quote:

Originally posted by Irish-Princess:
Can I just say something, I am a Catholic these types of people are not just specific to the Catholic Schools or Churches, but in every walk of life every type of organisation where there is access to kids, it is evident these people are not Catholics due to the disgusting acts they have carried out. I would thank everyone not to tar us all with the same brush.

Weren't you skriking about something to do with rugby players and the Queen or summat the other day? And now, we've got to give catholic abusers a break? You want your bumps feeling. I'm assuming it's because you're young and blinkered. Jesus H Christ.

quote:

Originally posted by Templetonpeck:
There is a point though, it wasn't ONLY the catholic church, it was the state, it was society, it was a mindset of move these people around and do nothing.

Yep. The church believes it has special privilege: privilege over morality and privilege as an organisation in wider society. That really ought to be lanced. In the UK, the CofE should have its state privilege removed as well as its perception of privilege. They ought to be private organisations, little different to special interest groups.

Decent start might be to rename 'religion' as 'superstition' and outlaw the teaching of these lies to children

quote:

Originally posted by fracas:

quote:

Originally posted by Irish-Princess:
Can I just say something, I am a Catholic these types of people are not just specific to the Catholic Schools or Churches, but in every walk of life every type of organisation where there is access to kids, it is evident these people are not Catholics due to the disgusting acts they have carried out. I would thank everyone not to tar us all with the same brush.

Weren't you skriking about something to do with rugby players and the Queen or summat the other day? And now, we've got to give catholic abusers a break? You want your bumps feeling. I'm assuming it's because you're young and blinkered. Jesus H Christ.

Have you some difficulty understanding what is written? She is not saying give Catholic abusers a break! just don't tar everyone with the same brush.
Sadly abuse happens in all countries and all religions and a sadder fact is that 70% of child abuse happens within families and friends.

Abuse in India

quote:

Originally posted by paace:
Have you some difficulty understanding what is written?

Absolutely not. Quite the opposite. The child is a young indoctrinated Irish catholic and her posts reflect this. I normally ignore, but couldn't let that one go.

Thanks for asking.

quote:

Originally posted by paace:

quote:

Originally posted by fracas:

quote:

Originally posted by Irish-Princess:
Can I just say something, I am a Catholic these types of people are not just specific to the Catholic Schools or Churches, but in every walk of life every type of organisation where there is access to kids, it is evident these people are not Catholics due to the disgusting acts they have carried out. I would thank everyone not to tar us all with the same brush.

Weren't you skriking about something to do with rugby players and the Queen or summat the other day? And now, we've got to give catholic abusers a break? You want your bumps feeling. I'm assuming it's because you're young and blinkered. Jesus H Christ.

Have you some difficulty understanding what is written? She is not saying give Catholic abusers a break! just don't tar everyone with the same brush.
Sadly abuse happens in all countries and all religions and a sadder fact is that 70% of child abuse happens within families and friends.

Abuse in India

I thought we were discussing this....

Report chronicles widespread, horrific abuse in Ireland's Catholic-run reformatories and orphanages
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

I have read and heard much about the horrors of the catholic church over many years, yet no one bought to justice. to me, those at the vatican and else where who knew about it and did nothing are just as guilty. have you heard about the children from homes in this country, who up to the 60's were sent abroad to places like Australia and many used by farmrs, churches all sorts. as little more than slaves. make you ashamed to be a human being. give me my dogs any day.
if there is a god, where is he when this stuff happens?

quote:

Originally posted by stonks:

quote:

Originally posted by paace:

quote:

Originally posted by fracas:

quote:

Originally posted by Irish-Princess:
Can I just say something, I am a Catholic these types of people are not just specific to the Catholic Schools or Churches, but in every walk of life every type of organisation where there is access to kids, it is evident these people are not Catholics due to the disgusting acts they have carried out. I would thank everyone not to tar us all with the same brush.

Weren't you skriking about something to do with rugby players and the Queen or summat the other day? And now, we've got to give catholic abusers a break? You want your bumps feeling. I'm assuming it's because you're young and blinkered. Jesus H Christ.

Have you some difficulty understanding what is written? She is not saying give Catholic abusers a break! just don't tar everyone with the same brush.
Sadly abuse happens in all countries and all religions and a sadder fact is that 70% of child abuse happens within families and friends.

Abuse in India

I thought we were discussing this....

Report chronicles widespread, horrific abuse in Ireland's Catholic-run reformatories and orphanages
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Yes but you know abuse happens everywhere. Its not just Irish Catholic priests and the sad fact is that 70% of abuse happens within families.

quote:

Originally posted by paace:
Yes but you know abuse happens everywhere. Its not just Irish Catholic priests and the sad fact is that 70% of abuse happens within families.

We are discussing abuse in Catholic institutions on this thread.

This particular report is specifically about Ireland, the Catholic Church and the State.

Of course it's not just Ireland that has had these problems, but nobody is tarring all Catholics with the same brush.

As I said earlier, the victims were Catholics too!

quote:

Originally posted by fracas:

quote:

Originally posted by paace:
Yes but you know abuse happens everywhere. Its not just Irish Catholic priests and the sad fact is that 70% of abuse happens within families.

We are discussing abuse in Catholic institutions on this thread.

Well I am broadening out the discussion. I know its nice for some to infer it is just a problem in Ireland. Hence my link to India. I can also get you a link for abuse within Jewish institutions.

Abuse in India

quote:

Originally posted by paace:


Well I am broadening out the discussion. I know its nice for some to infer it is just a problem in Ireland. Hence my link to India. I can also get you a link for abuse within Jewish institutions.

Abuse in India

Nobody inferred anything of the kind.

You miss the point.

*Gone*

quote:

Originally posted by paace:

quote:

Originally posted by fracas:

quote:

Originally posted by paace:
Yes but you know abuse happens everywhere. Its not just Irish Catholic priests and the sad fact is that 70% of abuse happens within families.

We are discussing abuse in Catholic institutions on this thread.

Well I am broadening out the discussion. I know its nice for some to infer it is just a problem in Ireland. Hence my link to India. I can also get you a link for abuse within Jewish institutions.

Abuse in India

We are discussing the CICA report that came out yesterday....

quote:

Originally posted by paace:
Well I am broadening out the discussion. I know its nice for some to infer it is just a problem in Ireland. Hence my link to India. I can also get you a link for abuse within Jewish institutions.

Abuse in India

To victims of this particular scandal, that could appear to be deflecting from their abuse and giving it the appearance of normality.

The Catholic church has been guilty of protecting abusers for years. I am a lapsed Catholic. The abuser's need to be prosecuted.


For anyone who missed it here is the acclaimed documentary from 1999 'Sex in a Cold Climate' It's 4 womens story's regarding the Magdaleine Asylums. It's in English with italian sub titles, it is very powerful viewing.

About 50 minutes long.


http://video.google.com/videop...-1732953937770017672

quote:

Originally posted by Bigdaddyostrich:
Decent start might be to rename 'religion' as 'superstition' and outlaw the teaching of these lies to children

quote:

Originally posted by paace:
Well I am broadening out the discussion. I know its nice for some to infer it is just a problem in Ireland.

Who said it's just an Irish problem? It's not an Irish or a Catholic problem, its a problem that happened in Ireland, by the Irish, to the Irish, similarly to Catholics in Catholic institutions by Catholics.

No one is streamlining Child Abuse, it happens in many different forms, but as this report came out yesterday, that is what is being discussed.

To be fair, to try and argue technicalities over it all is an insult to the people the Report was supposed to help.

Let the Church stand up and say, we acknowledge our part in it, and will increase our financial input into the Compensation Agreement and then they might be seen in a different light.

Is there an infer/imply issue again here?

quote:

Originally posted by Essex Angel:
The abuser's need to be prosecuted.

Forgetmenot said something similar, but there have been prosecutions already and compensation paid out. It's not even a drop in the ocean of course.

The Christian brothers brought a court order so none could be named....

quote:

Originally posted by stonks:
The Christian brothers brought a court order so none could be named....

that's it...I'm not sure if Brother X is the same person they're all referring to..or if they're calling all the brothers, Brother X....but I hope he's alive today and I hope they get their hands on him

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Is there an infer/imply issue again here?

What are you inferring implying?

quote:

Originally posted by Essex Angel:
I am a lapsed Catholic.

Our family prefers the expression, "escaped Catholic."
TBF, no-one has mentioned the Kincora scandal yet.

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

quote:

Originally posted by Essex Angel:
I am a lapsed Catholic.

Our family prefers the expression, "escaped Catholic."
TBF, no-one has mentioned the Kincora scandal yet.

You keep orange juice drinks out of this

quote:

Originally posted by Garage Joe:

quote:

Originally posted by Essex Angel:
I am a lapsed Catholic.

Our family prefers the expression, "escaped Catholic."
TBF, no-one has mentioned the Kincora scandal yet.

Very interesting of what I can find of it....

Same old same old, yes son if you confess your sins then god will forgive you, then you can go out to sin doing the same thing.....

I am a Roman Catholic (not a lapsed one either) and I agree that those who committed these crimes of abuse should be punished...too much is brushed under the carpet..btw I have never been abused by anyone from the Catholic faith and I went to Convent Schools and a Catholic boarding school but I know people who were and it is WRONG for these abusers to get away with it, simple

quote:

Originally posted by Bagel Queen:
I am a Roman Catholic (not a lapsed one either) and I agree that those who committed these crimes of abuse should be punished...too much is brushed under the carpet..btw I have never been abused by anyone from the Catholic faith and I went to Convent Schools and a Catholic boarding school but I know people who were and it is WRONG for these abusers to get away with it, simple

I also went to a Convent School, I liked my school, just thought Sister Aquinas
Chose the wrong vocation. She couldn’t stand me and I couldn’t stand her.