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quote:
Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:
Research also suggests that most sexual offenders aginst children have committed their first offence before the age of 21, so the majority of them will know their 'orientation' before gaining their professional position.

That's interesting and it helps me answer what I think SRT is asking me.

If people are attracted to children, perhaps as well as adults, then they normally have a choice whether to act on it or not. I think there could be lots of people like that in society who do not act on it and therefore remain undetected. They certainly won't speak out or seek help because it is so stigmatised.

Some, I think, are unable to stop themselves acting on it and are quite possibly sociopaths too. I see these people as predatory paedophiles and they're very dangerous. They need locking up forever, I expect.

The church may have predatory paedophiles in its ranks but it probably also has people who are inclined towards it and have a choice. Some of those people may have even joined the church in the hope of suppressing it. That is, people who have sought refuge in the church.

Others may be unable to form adult sexual relationships or be sexually attracted to adults. I think these people may have taken cover in the church before our society became more liberal in order to have a career and be respectable without having to deal with marriage expactations. They'll be older priests or priests involved in abuse decades ago.

It may be that some of the clergy who sought refuge or cover thought that, within the discipline of the church and the expectation of celibacy, they could keep a check on their sexual desire. Then failed under their own temptations at some point later. I'd have thought celibacy, for those who have other outlets for their sexual desire as well as children, would not be a good thing. Sexual desire is a very powerful drive.

I don't know if any of that sounds plausible or not.
FM
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel J*:
quote:
Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:
But, need to be v careful here as some people who defend the right to engage in sexual activity with children and young people will say that we used to think that about adult homosexuality, and we will, therefore, be at some point 'enlightened.'

Well, the defence there is that adults have proper choice in the matter whereas children are proto-adults in the development of the mind as well as the body. Consensual homosexuality between adults is essentially harmless to the participants. I would argue very strongly that paedophilia is not.


I don't disagree with you Daniel, and God forbid if my post could have been in any way interpreted as pro abuse of children or anti homesexuality Eeker I was just trying to get my head around the semantics of disorder/orientation in your earlier post, and express caution relating to some belief systems. To expand - many sex offenders will argue that the children did consent, enjoyed it and were in no way harmed,(due to the children's passive compliance and sometimes, additional confusion for the child if they experience sexual arousal- these are not kids who are shouting 'Stop rape')...Then there's all the added complications re what should/is 'age of consent' for homo and hetero sexual activity and different beliefs in different cultures/ over history!
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:
I don't disagree with you Daniel, and God forbid if my post could have been in any way interpreted as pro abuse of children or anti homesexuality Eeker I was just trying to get my head around the semantics of disorder/orientation in your earlier post, and express caution relating to some belief systems. To expand - many sex offenders will argue that the children did consent, enjoyed it and were in no way harmed,(due to the children's passive compliance and sometimes, additional confusion for the child if they experience sexual arousal- these are not kids who are shouting 'Stop rape')...Then there's all the added complications re what should/is 'age of consent' for homo and hetero sexual activity and different beliefs in different cultures/ over history!

No, it didn't read at all like being pro-abuse or anti-homosexuality. It's a very valid line of inquiry, I'd say. The consent of children, as people from groups like NAMBLA (I wonder if they still exist?) claim, is rubbish. We're paternal (as in paternalism rather than parental) towards children for a reason. I'm sure Mazzy can talk much better than me formally about child development but it's clear to me that children's minds go through stages of development as they gain reasoning and emotion stability. That much is a science, thanks to people like Piaget. How NAMBLA can claim stuff like that is beyond me. It's seems to me they're just looking for excuses for their own issues.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel J*:
quote:
Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:
Research also suggests that most sexual offenders aginst children have committed their first offence before the age of 21, so the majority of them will know their 'orientation' before gaining their professional position.

That's interesting and it helps me answer what I think SRT is asking me.

If people are attracted to children, perhaps as well as adults, then they normally have a choice whether to act on it or not. I think there could be lots of people like that in society who do not act on it and therefore remain undetected. They certainly won't speak out or seek help because it is so stigmatised.

Some, I think, are unable to stop themselves acting on it and are quite possibly sociopaths too. I see these people as predatory paedophiles and they're very dangerous. They need locking up forever, I expect.

The church may have predatory paedophiles in its ranks but it probably also has people who are inclined towards it and have a choice. Some of those people may have even joined the church in the hope of suppressing it. That is, people who have sought refuge in the church.

Others may be unable to form adult sexual relationships or be sexually attracted to adults. I think these people may have taken cover in the church before our society became more liberal in order to have a career and be respectable without having to deal with marriage expactations. They'll be older priests or priests involved in abuse decades ago.

It may be that some of the clergy who sought refuge or cover thought that, within the discipline of the church and the expectation of celibacy, they could keep a check on their sexual desire. Then failed under their own temptations at some point later. I'd have thought celibacy, for those who have other outlets for their sexual desire as well as children, would not be a good thing. Sexual desire is a very powerful drive.

I don't know if any of that sounds plausible or not.


Well, yes and no...everyone has a choice imo: some will find a way to minimise/justify/defend what they are doing; some will attempt to divert their preferences into adult sexual activity,(including by play-acting/fantasy in adult relationships); some will fantasise in their, shall we say, solo, sexual activity (including through viewing 'child pornography') Guess the success rates of all of these attempts will vary depending on the individuals level of self-control, their opportunities for contact with children and how much their repeated fantasising will lead them to normalise and rationalise the abusive behaviour. The research for e.g. on how many people who view child abuse images ('pornography') on the internet and then go on to committ contact abuse, is present contadictory and in its infancy.....Don't want to trivialise this, but, in simplistic terms, if you're addicted to chocolate, stay away from the chocolate shop....some will manage to do so better than others, and some will stay away, but then find themselves in other situations where chocolate is available.....
FM
Just wanting to say something about the horrendous physical and emotional abuse and neglect that some ops have rightly pointed out have been somewhat overlooked in this thread. Unfortunately, so much of this was,(and for some people still is,) believed to be a justifiable way of disciplining/punishing children for their 'wrong-doings' and teaching them 'right from wrong'. Then of course, there are those who get a personal 'kick' out of inflicting violence/emotional harm on those more vulnerable than themselves...Again, this is, thankfully being tackled in most of our 'institutions' including in families/schools/churches/sporting organisations etc. etc. But there are still those who still believe it is ok to e.g. give children the cane - just look at the opinions in the thread on that v matter in here!
FM

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