*sits on hands*

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
*sits on hands*

*Sits on hands with Daniel*

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
*sits on hands*

whose hands

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
*sits on hands*

why ?

Just type what you were thinking.

It was appauling I agree. I think tho that we will find out that it is not unfortunatly restricted to one group or organisation but is a problem thoughout society.

When I was a child, children ANYWHERE who said they were abused were often not belived. And sent back to there abuser.

quote:

Originally posted by Gar E Oh En:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
*sits on hands*

why ?

Just type what you were thinking.

I'm gay and atheist. The Catholic Church, as an institution, and I are not really the best of friends in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by Gar E Oh En:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
*sits on hands*

why ?

Just type what you were thinking.

I'm gay and atheist. The Catholic Church, as an institution, and I are not really the best of friends in the first place.

My preist would marry you .... well in that he would if they would let him ... and that he is not my preist as I am godless myself but my O/H and children are catholics.

I had no idea. This only happened in Ireland?
I must go round with my eyes closed.

quote:

Originally posted by Moonbeams:
I had no idea. This only happened in Ireland?
I must go round with my eyes closed.

I'm sure it happened elsewhere as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Moonbeams:
I had no idea. This only happened in Ireland?
I must go round with my eyes closed.

No your have your eyes open

quote:

Originally posted by Gar E Oh En:

quote:

Originally posted by Moonbeams:
I had no idea. This only happened in Ireland?
I must go round with my eyes closed.

I'm sure it happened elsewhere as well.

Do you think? And only in th catholic Church?

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by Moonbeams:
I had no idea. This only happened in Ireland?
I must go round with my eyes closed.

No your have your eyes open

I think I'd like to close them again.

Pedophiles infiltate any organiseation that gives them access to children in a possition of trust.

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
My preist would marry you .... well in that he would if they would let him ... and that he is not my preist as I am godless myself but my O/H and children are catholics.

Oh I don't doubt there are many good and/or enlightened people in the church. That's why I added "as an institution" up there.

quote:

Originally posted by Moonbeams:

quote:

Originally posted by Gar E Oh En:

quote:

Originally posted by Moonbeams:
I had no idea. This only happened in Ireland?
I must go round with my eyes closed.

I'm sure it happened elsewhere as well.

Do you think? And only in th catholic Church?

Of course it will have happened in other walks of life, but the catholic church is in the news for it, and the catholic church has covered loads of instances up, which i doubt would have been evident in other walks of life.

The priests of ireland have been by far the worst perpetrateurs, yet the church has covered up the many many scandals over the years, almost condoning it. I find that sick, and appalling.

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
Pedophiles infiltate any organiseation that gives them access to children in a possition of trust.

I wonder whether they infiltrated the organisation or whether they sought refuge, or cover, in the church and fell later. I don't think celebacy is a healthy state to formally require of people.

'Tis true, it is appalling and the horrific abuse: physical, sexual and emotional that children have suffered at the hands of catholic priests and nuns just breaks my heart. I do think 'though that things have improved immensely since the Nolan report.
However, the Catholic church are far from alone in historically countenancing physical abuse due to their misguided belif systems and 'covering up' sexual abuse, moving people on, partly to protect the institution's reputation and partly, sometimes, in the naive belief that it wouldn't happen again elsewhere. I could start with our 'public' schools but fear I might be here all day!

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
Pedophiles infiltate any organiseation that gives them access to children in a possition of trust.

I wonder whether they infiltrated the organisation or whether they sought refuge, or cover, in the church and fell later. I don't think celebacy is a healthy state to formally require of people.

The little research there is Daniel, suggests that, of those who use their 'professional' positions to gain access to children for sexual abuse,(including priests, indeed they are over-represented in the research samples,) about half do so with intent and about half are 'opportunist'

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
Pedophiles infiltate any organiseation that gives them access to children in a possition of trust.

I wonder whether they infiltrated the organisation or whether they sought refuge, or cover, in the church and fell later. I don't think celebacy is a healthy state to formally require of people.

I do not think the celebacy thing is healthy but I feel very strongly that it does not make someone a Pedophile!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:
The little research there is Daniel, suggests that, of those who use their 'professional' positions to gain access to children for sexual abuse,(including priests, indeed they are over-represented in the research samples,) about half do so with intent and about half are 'opportunist'

Oh that's interesting. I don't really understand peadophilia but I imagine it's a disorder rather than an orientation. That said, there seem to be people who are exclusively like that and people who marry and maintain adult relationships but pursue their interests in that area. It seems to me to be the worst of all worlds if people have that disorder to some extent or other then deny themselves normal sexual release, and work in a position of authority or respect around kids.

Sorry preists have enough adults throwing themseves at them!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
I wonder whether they infiltrated the organisation or whether they sought refuge, or cover, in the church and fell later. I don't think celebacy is a healthy state to formally require of people.

I do not think the celebacy thing is healthy but I feel very strongly that it does not make someone a Pedophile!!!!!

Me neither.

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
Pedophiles infiltate any organiseation that gives them access to children in a possition of trust.

I wonder whether they infiltrated the organisation or whether they sought refuge, or cover, in the church and fell later. I don't think celebacy is a healthy state to formally require of people.

I do not think the celebacy thing is healthy but I feel very strongly that it does not make someone a Pedophile!!!!!

I agree on both counts.Aren't many paedophiles 'happily married'?

As you said earlier,SRT,a paedophile will infiltrate any institution that allows them access to a child.The catholic church is not unique.Football coaches,scout leaders,even teashers have been found guilty of abusing their positions.You now have to submit a new CRB check every time you apply to work with young people,even as a volunteer.Despite being checked at work,I still had to be checked again recently fo football coaching.
Interestingly,its only recently become a must in football coaching.By interesting I mean I'd have thought it was the easiest place in the world to gain a childs trust and 'legitimately' take them in your car,to your home,etc.When I first started(about 8 years ago),it was only 'desirable' to be CRB checked if your club wanted FA charter status!

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
I wonder whether they infiltrated the organisation or whether they sought refuge, or cover, in the church and fell later. I don't think celebacy is a healthy state to formally require of people.

I do not think the celebacy thing is healthy but I feel very strongly that it does not make someone a Pedophile!!!!!

Me neither.

So are you saying that someone who is that way inclined hides in the church and then acts as a secondary thing when a child happens by??

I am unable to repeat on this, a family forum, what my Father in law had to say about The Christian Brothers. I had never heard such a word used as an adjective before.

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
Sorry preists have enough adults throwing themseves at them!!!!!

Quite probably. But there's the psychology to consider, which is different adult-to-adult and adult-to-child.

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
So are you saying that someone who is that way inclined hides in the church and then acts as a secondary thing when a child happens by??

I don't understand what you're saying here.

People are forgetting that most of the abuse was violence towards children, including daily beatings and punishments, for having dirty hands or something as menial as that.Often they would be beaten black and blue, then forced into ice cold baths, before perhaps enduring a different priests want later on that day.

They covered it up worldwide.

The fact that they cared more about their reputation, than the victims and the fact that 'moving' priests on would lead to future victims, is unbelievably disgusting.

wrong thread!

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
are 'opportunist'

Oh that's interesting. I don't really understand peadophilia but I imagine it's a disorder rather than an orientation. That said, there seem to be people who are exclusively like that and people who marry and maintain adult relationships but pursue their interests in that area. It seems to me to be the worst of all worlds if people have that disorder to some extent or other then deny themselves normal sexual release, and work in a position of authority or respect around kids.[/QUOTE]
Not sure I understand the semantic difference you raise re disorder/orientation ....so I would say, generally, it's a disorder that leads to an orientation. (About half of sexual offenders against children have been sexually abused themselves, and of the others most have suffered physical or emotional abuse, neglect or lived with domestic violence.) But, need to be v careful here as some people who defend the right to engage in sexual activity with children and young people will say that we used to think that about adult homosexuality, and we will, therefore, be at some point 'enlightened.'
The tragedy is that some people are sexually attracted to children and young people, exclusively or in tandem with sexual attraction to adults, then, if they are in a position of 'power' through their professional status, then that provides them with a greater opportunity to exploit and abuse those children.
I agree that there will be some cases in the clergy whereby a vow of celibecy may complicate things, but these people are then breaking that vow with children, not adults. Research also suggests that most sexual offenders aginst children have committed their first offence before the age of 21, so the majority of them will know their 'orientation' before gaining their professional position.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
So are you saying that someone who is that way inclined hides in the church and then acts as a secondary thing when a child happens by??

I don't understand what you're saying here.

it is in response to this comment of yours if that helps ...

"or whether they sought refuge, or cover, in the church and fell later".

quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
are 'opportunist'

Oh that's interesting. I don't really understand peadophilia but I imagine it's a disorder rather than an orientation. That said, there seem to be people who are exclusively like that and people who marry and maintain adult relationships but pursue their interests in that area. It seems to me to be the worst of all worlds if people have that disorder to some extent or other then deny themselves normal sexual release, and work in a position of authority or respect around kids.

Not sure I understand the semantic difference you raise re disorder/orientation ....so I would say, generally, it's a disorder that leads to an orientation. (About half of sexual offenders against children have been sexually abused themselves, and of the others most have suffered physical or emotional abuse, neglect or lived with domestic violence.) But, need to be v careful here as some people who defend the right to engage in sexual activity with children and young people will say that we used to think that about adult homosexuality, and we will, therefore, be at some point 'enlightened.'
The tragedy is that some people are sexually attracted to children and young people, exclusively or in tandem with sexual attraction to adults, then, if they are in a position of 'power' through their professional status, then that provides them with a greater opportunity to exploit and abuse those children.
I agree that there will be some cases in the clergy whereby a vow of celibecy may complicate things, but these people are then breaking that vow with children, not adults. Research also suggests that most sexual offenders aginst children have committed their first offence before the age of 21, so the majority of them will know their 'orientation' before gaining their professional position.[/QUOTE]


Interesting post,Cali.Thanks

this is rather interesting.



loius theroux

quote:

Originally posted by Mazzystar:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
Pedophiles infiltate any organiseation that gives them access to children in a possition of trust.

I wonder whether they infiltrated the organisation or whether they sought refuge, or cover, in the church and fell later. I don't think celebacy is a healthy state to formally require of people.

I do not think the celebacy thing is healthy but I feel very strongly that it does not make someone a Pedophile!!!!!

I agree on both counts.Aren't many paedophiles 'happily married'?

As you said earlier,SRT,a paedophile will infiltrate any institution that allows them access to a child.The catholic church is not unique.Football coaches,scout leaders,even teashers have been found guilty of abusing their positions.You now have to submit a new CRB check every time you apply to work with young people,even as a volunteer.Despite being checked at work,I still had to be checked again recently fo football coaching.
Interestingly,its only recently become a must in football coaching.By interesting I mean I'd have thought it was the easiest place in the world to gain a childs trust and 'legitimately' take them in your car,to your home,etc.When I first started(about 8 years ago),it was only 'desirable' to be CRB checked if your club wanted FA charter status!

last bit is bizzare !!!The care home system was full of people who just seemed to love beating children among other things.

Thats why I say Micheal Jackson(Though I believe he was innocent) should have been a priest because he wouldnt have been charged just transferred....

Its appalling what these priests get away it.. If it were average Joe he would have been in Jail or his name registered in the sex offenders list..

quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:
are 'opportunist'

Oh that's interesting. I don't really understand peadophilia but I imagine it's a disorder rather than an orientation. That said, there seem to be people who are exclusively like that and people who marry and maintain adult relationships but pursue their interests in that area. It seems to me to be the worst of all worlds if people have that disorder to some extent or other then deny themselves normal sexual release, and work in a position of authority or respect around kids.

Not sure I understand the semantic difference you raise re disorder/orientation ....so I would say, generally, it's a disorder that leads to an orientation. (About half of sexual offenders against children have been sexually abused themselves, and of the others most have suffered physical or emotional abuse, neglect or lived with domestic violence.) But, need to be v careful here as some people who defend the right to engage in sexual activity with children and young people will say that we used to think that about adult homosexuality, and we will, therefore, be at some point 'enlightened.'
The tragedy is that some people are sexually attracted to children and young people, exclusively or in tandem with sexual attraction to adults, then, if they are in a position of 'power' through their professional status, then that provides them with a greater opportunity to exploit and abuse those children.
I agree that there will be some cases in the clergy whereby a vow of celibecy may complicate things, but these people are then breaking that vow with children, not adults. Research also suggests that most sexual offenders aginst children have committed their first offence before the age of 21, so the majority of them will know their 'orientation' before gaining their professional position.[/QUOTE] Agreed.

quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:
But, need to be v careful here as some people who defend the right to engage in sexual activity with children and young people will say that we used to think that about adult homosexuality, and we will, therefore, be at some point 'enlightened.'

Well, the defence there is that adults have proper choice in the matter whereas children are proto-adults in the development of the mind as well as the body. Consensual homosexuality between adults is essentially harmless to the participants. I would argue very strongly that paedophilia is not.

quote:

Originally posted by Mazzystar

I agree on both counts.Aren't many paedophiles 'happily married'?

As you said earlier,SRT,a paedophile will infiltrate any institution that allows them access to a child.The catholic church is not unique.Football coaches,scout leaders,even teashers have been found guilty of abusing their positions.You now have to submit a new CRB check every time you apply to work with young people,even as a volunteer.Despite being checked at work,I still had to be checked again recently fo football coaching.
Interestingly,its only recently become a must in football coaching.By interesting I mean I'd have thought it was the easiest place in the world to gain a childs trust and 'legitimately' take them in your car,to your home,etc.When I first started(about 8 years ago),it was only 'desirable' to be CRB checked if your club wanted FA charter status!

Agree Mazzy, much abuse of children by professionals who work with them takes place when the adult has access to contact away from other adults e.g. overnight trips, outings etc. and where the adult can rely heavily on their position of power to gain compliance e.g. selection for teams etc. There's been quite a lot written about abuse in all sports and most sporting org's have really got their act together re this in recent years as a consequence. CRB checks are only one safeguard 'though- most sex offenders against children haven't been caught/convicted