I wondered if someone would bring this up.

Mrs Jer has spent the last few days shouting obscenities at the radio and tellybox and would agree with you totally. I also don't understand why the silly buggers want to mess around with their bits.

  Bless her!  I just don't get for one second why they think the bloomin' NHS should fund them!

For the people who have elected to have implants for cosmetic and non essential medical reasons then I think there is no argument in my book, they should fund the surgery themselves.

The NHS should not be burdened with costly problems of this nature, there are people who are sick through no fault of their own who deserve NHS money spending on them.

It's very appropriate that this thread is started on the Celebrity Big Brother pages as I believe a lot of this has been caused by Female celebrities having augmentation and then plastered over all the women's mags where they have influenced and continue to influence women across the land. Such a shame really, because as hetro male, I have never like implants. Natural, Natural, Natural everytime ladies.

Well said EC   Also have to say...  no man I know likes fake boobs on their woman.  Like you said, natural is best

At the end of the day, it's pure vanity, and not a necessary health issue..

What about the people who's health issues stunted their growth as teens so they never grew much taller or breasts as a result? (ie Diabetes?) Some of those people don't feel like whole people and it's really not their fault.

I've said it before and i will say it again, health iss more than just a physical thing!

On the actual subject well if they pay for them private and they go wrong that company should foot the bill to put them right simple as, all this charging people 80quid just to find out if they had the PIP implant put in s ridiculous!!

Well said.  Let's face it, the vast majority of breast implants is by choice, just to make their breasts bigger.   I agree that when it's unnecessary surgery that is not a health risk, there is no reason for the NHS to fund them, not in the first instance, nor if the surgery cocks up.  What if we ALL decide we are not happy with what God gave us or with how we have turned out?  Everyone has hang ups about the way they look, and if they are healthy, then that should be enough!  Some people are too vain for words if you ask me. 

I had to re-read the last word of your post, Joe.  I mis-read it first time.

It may have been thier choice to have implants in the first place but I doubt they would have chosen to have implants filled with industrial silicone. I don't suppose it is the job of the NHS to pick up the tab for all those concerned but I guess some who forked out to have implants in the first place didn't expect to have this extra cost added at no fault of thier own.

In my opinion this PIP company or whoever they are are fully responsible. They should be the ones covering the cost of implant removal for every woman they gave dodgy indutrial filled implants to.

I have no idea why any woman would want to stick bits of foreign bodies in their boobs, given all that can go wrong with boobs. They have healthy bodies ..If they choose to modify, them then that's their own choice and I don't think we should be involved in that, even when it goes wrong for them.

There are women out there needing reconstruction, thats worthy of our money, Not some woman that thinks she will be a bit more 'fanciable' with a new pair of fake boobs?

We treat people all the time who abuse their bodies in this country (SMOKERS DRINKERS DRUGGIES OBESITY) so we should treat these ladies. However if they do win any cases that award them money they should refund the NHS. 

So did anybody see the programme on these breast implants last night?  having seen it and how the women concerned have been subjected to faulty and sub standard implants, and some have actually had the stuff inside (industrial silicone -ewww) LEAKING into their bodies, I am actually starting to feel a bit sorry for them, and am changing my mind a bit.  

Yes the women did not HAVE to have the implants (in most cases,) but also, they didn't ask for - or deserve - for this to happen. So maybe they could get 50% of the cost paid or something.  As Longcat said, plenty of people get help from the national health - like druggies, alcoholics, obese people etc, so maybe under the circumstances, these women may deserve help.  After watching the news and this programme last night, I am being swayed into supporting them a bit more.

If you bought a new kitchen appliance and it was faulty, would you expect to get a refund or would you just deem it acceptable  that you had no comeback whatsoever?

The reason people get so stoked up about this is because it's cosmetic surgery. Imo, the majority of things you buy that cost alot of money have a guarantee, so why should these implants be any different ?

It's simply because it's plastic surgery and in general people take a dim view.

I agree Angel, but should the NHS cover the costs?  I mean, I think that the company has gone tits up.  So do you think the NHS should pay?  The surgeons say that the manufacturer is responsible,,but they have gone tits up, so who pays?

I reckon the NHS should foot the bill to replace the implants that they put in, if  their patients now want them removed because of the  problems with them.

I also think those who had the implants  done privately  should go back to  their surgeons and  get them to remove them as they are faulty.

It's called the duty of care both the NHS and private surgeons should be required to put things right, regardless of the initial reason the patient had them.

Oh no. As I have said before, I think it is up to the company who supplied the implants in the first place to cover the cost .... most definately without a doubt. Why should the NHS pick up the tab? ... It's a tough one.

Problem is Jackson, the surgeons are refusing aren't they?  they are saying it's not their 'fault,' as they bought the implants in 'good faith..' and the implant makers have gone into liquidation.

quote:

I also think those who had the implants  done privately  should go back to  their surgeons and  get them to remove them as they are faulty.

of course thats what they are saying, but whether they like it or not, they  are bound by the duty of care, no patient cna decide to have the implants and do it themselves  all of them have to  have advice and guidance from  a doctor, so the only way patients can have the surgery is by the doctor agreeing  to it and doing the work, they are entirely responsible.

of course would be nice if the  provider hadn't gone tits up(so to speak)so that the private clinics could claim the costs of putting it right back from them, but they can't so they should be made to stump up  for their patients.

yep, exactly angel.

I do agree Jackson (and Angel) and I don't think that the patient should have to pay.  As I said, the women didn't deserve this OR ask for it.  So no way should they pay.  However, if the surgeons refuse: should the NHS pay? in your opinion?  As I said in my initial post: I do not think they should, but this past week, I am changing my mind...  Have to go now.  See you all soon.  

well no one  is going to stand by and risk having women die because the NHS won't pick up the cost, so being pragmatic  it will be the govt. in the end( i.e. you and me) that will pay.

To be hones t i think most people if  faced with the stark choice of paying  for it or consigning  thousands of women to a possible life long  pain and possibly early death, they'd sigh and pay  up.

Talking purely about cosmetic cases (cos reconstructive & corrective work is an absolute in my book... the NHS should foot the bill)

But in the cosmetic cases - The NHS should replace the ones they have done...   the private clinics should likewise do the same.

Then surely... both would be able to make a claim against PIP for some form of compensation?

In cases where private clinics refuse to replace the implants & the woman is seriously worried, then I think the NHS should remove them...   but not replace them

It should also be listed somewhere which organisations refused to help their patients... and the professional body for cosmetic surgery should not allow them membership

The thing about cosmetic implants is..     when you have them done you are told they have a shelf life of about 10 years..    so you have the surgery knowing you have to have it redone in ten years.

Its something the woman should budget for when she initially opts to get them done

PIP has  gone bust Ditty.

oops 

well...   then...  its just one of those things isn't it.   The private clinics can totally afford to sort it out (I'd have thought)..  

& I as I said before..    the NHS should at least remove the implants from any woman who had them done privately, is being refused help by the original surgeon, & is worried.

Some implants carry a lifetime guarantee.

do they?

that's good.     I am only basing my knowledge on my bessie mates research...    Bless her... she's flat as a pancake (has only ever been able to wear a bra when she'd just had her daughter & was breast feeding...  she paraded round in a bra & shorts for weeks, cupping her own breasts with glee  )

She always said if she could she would get implants, and looked into it about 12 years ago..   it was the ten year life of them that put her off.

That said... I am glad that she didn't get it done & she is now very happy with her body.   She has an amazing body (in my opinion)...  very very athletic (she runs)...  size 6-8...   clothes look fab on her.

Someone used the toaster analogy up there ^^^^^^^

I think that, under the Sale of Goods Act, the contract of the buyer is with the supplier i.e. if you buy a Kenwood toaster from Comet and it goes wrong or is dangerous etc it is Comet who are legally required to reimburse you or resupply you etc as your contract is with them and not Kenwood. It would then be up to Comet to deal with Kenwood as per their contract with eachother.

In this case, as the contract is between the woman and the surgeon/cosmetic clinic that operated then it must be down to them to put this right. Why should the NHS have to pick up the tab?

So the supply company has gone bust eh?? Hmmmmm, I think any reporter would be hard pressed to find a cosmetic surgeon in rented accomodation living on the breadline.

They should be made to put this right at their own expense or be struck off. They must have insurance for this kind of eventuality or they would not be allowed to practice.

Then they can pursue PIP and their insurers to get recompense

I agree Veggie

Our contract is always with the retailer - in this case the organisation that did the surgery. If that were the NHS then our contract is with the NHS and they should put it right. If it's with another organisation then they should put it right.

Can't think why anyone would think differently tbh

Lol Thanks for reading all that Rexi. I am long winded!

The NHS has already said they will deal with the ones they fitted I think. But I would suppose that the NHS would only carry out this kind of surgery when there has been an underlying condition or trauma that necessitates it.

So not just because a woman wants to look like Barbie

Of course the real debate should be about how women particularly young ones feel pressured to conform to a certain ideal of body shape.

Without a doubt that is the bigger debate...    but I would hate to see that overshadow the more immediate & practical problem of women who currently have implants and are now fearing for their health. 

Me too Ditty ... and I hope that the people who inserted these implants and made to fulfill their legal obligations as soon as possible ... I cannot imagine how awful these poor women must be feeling at the moment

I've no doubt the NHS will end up doing it Ditty but I hope they will aggressively pursue the original surgeons and their clinics/insurers as well as the manufacturers (who are undoubtedly not skint no matter what they say). As I stated earlier, I would strike off surgeons who didn't deal with their clients. They were happy enough to take the money in the first place

The NHS is not a bottomless pit. They have to balance the books. If they are required to deal with this situation then other patients will no doubt suffer

Oh I totally agree.. 

you just know it won't happen though Veggie..   

Medics manage medics...     they don't like striking off one of their own.    & on the cultural professional pecking order...   Plastic surgeons are quite high up on the pecking order (cos its a lucrative business)...   

I am in danger of going off on a massive & long winded rant here    Clinicians & their culture was one of the things that drove me over the edge & unable to work for 7 years...     I'm finally putting all that shit behind me now..    But something like this drags it all up again..      

Consequently I just hope that the women get sorted..   I am too jaded & cynical to even hope that those not doing right by their patients face any consequences. 

I agree with this, the private companies should be made to redo the surgeries for these women

Well said Veggie.  I do think that there is no way that these women should be coughing up for the replacements: but it SHOULD be the surgeon (and not the NHS)  - and then - as you said - the surgeon should sort it out with the supplier.  If they have gone bust, surely the surgeon must have some kind of insurance.  

Why on earth should these women pay the money to fix the problem?  If the surgeons won't though, then I guess as ditty said, maybe the NHS could get them removed from the women, (as they could be in danger through no fault of their own.,)  Remove them, but not replace them.