The sad fact is smashing windows is the only way people do get noticed in this country. If the last demonstration had passed off without incident, students would have just been patronised with empty platitudes from the likes of Clegg, and that would have been that.
If it's ok for a political party to go around the country cynically selling a promise to students and signing public pledges on a policy they've privately decided to ditch, then what other avenue is there for students to take?
The vandalism brought the grievance out into the open and put it on the front pages.
I understood that ÂĢ9,000 was to be the exception rather than the rule.
There is no need for criminal damage to prove a point.
The point can be made by sheer numbers behaving well.
It simply is not true that one has to do harm to be noticed.
Violence is not necessary.
There is no need for criminal damage to prove a point.
The point can be made by sheer numbers behaving well.
It simply is not true that one has to do harm to be noticed.
Violence is not necessary.
Reference: Croc
to gland protest.
That sounds like it could get messy! 
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The point can be made by sheer numbers behaving well.
It wouldn't, though. As Carnelian said, it would just be met with empty platitudes.I can understand a rise in fees, but not at the percentage that's being suggested. It's bloody ridiculous. Would the Tories accept an equivalent percentage decrease in their annual salary? I think not.
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That sounds like it could get messy!
Going straight for the jugular can be beneficial 
I believe in peaceful protesting the minority of troublemakers spoil it for everyone else..shame.
Oops my gland protest should have read 'go and protest'
Reference:Brisket
I understood that ÂĢ9,000 was to be the exception rather than the rule. There is no need for criminal damage to prove a point. The point can be made by sheer numbers behaving well. It simply is not true that one has to do harm to be noticed. Violence is not necessary.
Can it though? Millions demonstrating mostly peacefully over Iraq made no difference yet the Poll Tax riots led to the abolition of the Poll Tax. The only time governments have ever got the message is really when demonstrations have turned ugly. Sad that it's true, but true it is. What's the point of just making a point anyway! Look how the Lib Dems played the student vote with their public pledges.
From what I understand ÂĢ9,000 will be the exception but something close to it - like around ÂĢ7,000 will be the norm. Still a massive hike.
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I believe in peaceful protesting the minority of troublemakers spoil it for everyone else..shame.
Spoil a good day out to go to a march with mates and then do the shops for those 'playing' at politics, maybe.Reference:Carnelian
demonstrations have turned ugly. Sad that it's true, but true
I agree the poll tax was a prime example I like to see peaceful protesting and sadly agree we never hear of them they dont make any impact.
I believe in peaceful protesting. After watching this bunch of idiots and the violence and damage they are inflicting - turn the water cannons on the lot of them!
It's all pretty tame, compared to the French.
The protest oop North was quite tame and organised.. to a point.
The students were happy with the way it went.
The students were happy with the way it went.
Stoners never marched 
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Blizz'ard online 16,667 Forum Posts Today at 6:50 PM Last Edited: It's all pretty tame, compared to the French.
Oh indeed the French 
I find rioting quite invigorating.
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Oops my gland protest should have read 'go and protest'
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I believe in peaceful protesting. After watching this bunch of idiots and the violence and damage they are inflicting - turn the water cannons on the lot of them!
But what's the point when the legitimate avenue for getting things done is so cynically abused by politicians! I.e. voting for a party that goes around the country signing public pledges to abolish fees - and then gets into power and does totally the opposite. Clegg saying the country can't afford it is pure b****t. Despite what Clegg and others would like us to believe, the opposition parties were fully aware of the debt before the election and if anything, the recovery has been more impressive than expected, so no excuse there.
What's the point of violent protests though? Where does that get you? No-one is going to want to listen to a bunch of thugs smashing things up and hurling abuse at the police. Their cause gets lost somewhere along the line and their right to protest should be taken away if they cannot protest peacefully. A peaceful protest gets you heard more than a violent one. Unfortunately, most of the thugs doing the smashing up were probably only there as a rent-a-mob and to cause as much damage as they could. I feel sorry for the people who went along to protest peacefully as they will all be tarred with the same brush.
Oz. of Nepalese for ÂĢ80.
The days.
The days.
Clegg went on the radio today saying they couldn't keep their pledge because they haven't got a mandate. You've got that right matey and your friend 'call me Dave' doesn't either. We are supposed to put up with a Government which is only in exsistance because 2 losing parties got together. Why exactly should we?
Reference:Liverpoollass
What's the point of violent protests though? Where does that get you? No-one is going to want to listen to a bunch of thugs smashing things up and hurling abuse at the police. Their cause gets lost somewhere along the line and their right to protest should be taken away if they cannot protest peacefully. A peaceful protest gets you heard more than a violent one. Unfortunately, most of the thugs doing the smashing up were probably only there as a rent-a-mob and to cause as much damage as they could. I feel sorry for the people who went along to protest peacefully as they will all be tarred with the same brush.
It's the only way the media and governments take notice. No one is going to want to listen to them anyway. The Lib Dems listened to them, went all over the country signing public pledges for them while secretly knowing they were going to drop their opposition to fees.Their cause is lost already, if they want something done there's no point going down the peaceful route as they'll just get 'we feel your pain' platitudes from the likes of Clegg, and nothing else.
I appreciate what you're saying and would have agreed until fairly recently but although I agree violent protest shouldn't be the answer I just can't blame them for reacting in this way when they've been totally shafted by playing by the rules.
I feel sorry for people who went along for a nice walk and a bit camaraderie but I can't blame those who feel bitterly angry about being taken for mugs and having a different agenda either.
I agree totally with Carnelian, I've spent a lot of my life involved with grass roots politcal and animal/environmental rights groups - anyone who has knows that what he says is absolutely correct,
Carnelian
I would join the debate but my head is not in a serious place at the mo!! Just wanted to give you this link if you want a read.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/ne...perfect-for-lansbury
Carnelian
I would join the debate but my head is not in a serious place at the mo!! Just wanted to give you this link if you want a read. http://www.arsenal.com/news/ne...perfect-for-lansbury
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Despite what Clegg and others would like us to believe, the opposition parties were fully aware of the debt before the election and if anything, the recovery has been more impressive than expected, so no excuse there.
^^^ 
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Carnelian online 1,223 Forum Posts Today at 8:26 PM Last Edited: Reference:Liverpoollass What's the point of violent protests though? Where does that get you? No-one is going to want to listen to a bunch of thugs smashing things up and hurling abuse at the police. Their cause gets lost somewhere along the line and their right to protest should be taken away if they cannot protest peacefully. A peaceful protest gets you heard more than a violent one. Unfortunately, most of the thugs doing the smashing up were probably only there as a rent-a-mob and to cause as much damage as they could. I feel sorry for the people who went along to protest peacefully as they will all be tarred with the same brush. It's the only way the media and governments take notice. No one is going to want to listen to them anyway. The Lib Dems listened to them, went all over the country signing public pledges for them while secretly knowing they were going to drop their opposition to fees. Their cause is lost already, if they want something done there's no point going down the peaceful route as they'll just get 'we feel your pain' platitudes from the likes of Clegg, and nothing else. I appreciate what you're saying and would have agreed until fairly recently but although I agree violent protest shouldn't be the answer I just can't blame them for reacting in this way when they've been totally shafted by playing by the rules. I feel sorry for people who went along for a nice walk and a bit camaraderie but I can't blame those who feel bitterly angry about being taken for mugs and having a different agenda either.
The problem I have with this and other protests is, that the ones who are smashing things up, hurling abuse at the police/media and being violent, are probably not even there to protest. They are rent-a-mob who go along purely to incite violence and be violent - nothing to do with what the legitimate students are protesting about. I still stand by what I say, protesting violently is not going to get them anywhere as the majority of people will be thinking (like I am), that they arre just a mindless bunch of thugs out to cause trouble. By protesting peacefully, you get your voice heard, your point across and get more of the public on your side - well imo anyway.
Veggieburger 
agree totally with Carnelian, I've spent a lot of my life involved with grass roots politcal and animal/environmental rights groups - anyone who has knows that what he says is absolutely correct, Carnelian I would join the debate but my head is not in a serious place at the mo!! Just wanted to give you this link if you want a read. http://www.arsenal.com/news/ne...perfect-for-lansbury
LOL Veggie, hope your head gets a bit more serious in good time 
Thanks for the link. Sounds like a good loanee signing but Norwich have had mixed fortunes from their Arsenal loanees. Apparently he may be starting against the mighty Ipswich on Sunday, so maybe he'll get one against them and help get Keano the sack. Not that I mind too much, Keano's doing a fantastic job at Ipswich!
It depends if it is reported fairly.
The early evening news was very balanced and fair and gave more time to those protesting in a civilised manner.
I wouldn't condone violence, but sometimes a little bit of criminal damage can get you heard!
The early evening news was very balanced and fair and gave more time to those protesting in a civilised manner.
I wouldn't condone violence, but sometimes a little bit of criminal damage can get you heard!
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Blizz'ard online 16,669 Forum Posts Today at 8:55 PM Last Edited: It depends if it is reported fairly. The early evening news was very balanced and fair and gave more time to those protesting in a civilised manner. I wouldn't condone violence, but sometimes a little bit of criminal damage can get you heard!
For all the wrong reasons though Reference:
Some of the secondary youngsters from round my area went. I think it is great! We have had a whole generation of youngsters who didn't seem to care about anything and here are these young people demonstrating about something they feel passionate about.
Normally I would agree, but from what Growly Jnr was saying last night, the vast majority of the people she knows who were planning to go today were going with the intention of causing trouble, and most of them have no intention of going on to higher education anyway. I'm all in favour of students taking part in a peaceful protest, but I think there was clearly a significant number of professional activists involved today.
I've just watched the news and I have to say it caused me some concern to see that the Lib Dem HQ was cordoned off and the students being "kettled" at the Houses of Parliment. Disturbing implications imo
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but I think there was clearly a significant number of professional activists involved today.
Apparently this protest was organised by 'the Anachists' you know, the professional protestor types... not a proper NUS one like last timeReference:
I feel sorry for people who went along for a nice walk and a bit camaraderie but I can't blame those who feel bitterly angry about being taken for mugs and having a different agenda either.
Demonstrations will always have an element of physical 'expression'. I can't believe that people really are disappointed or dismayed. TBH, it wasn't actually violent. Compare and contrast France and Britain.
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Apparently this protest was organised by 'the Anachists' you know, the professional protestor types
That's not what was said on the beeb news saz. Even Glasgow students came out in sympathy, despite the fact they have no fees to pay in the first place. Surely that wouldn't have been organised by some yobs who have no clue about the educational system.
Bloody good on 'em
....was disappointed to here that, up here, the students of Northumbria and Newcastle Uni's failed to take part for health and safety reasons
.... The Jarrow marchers will be turning in their graves
....was disappointed to here that, up here, the students of Northumbria and Newcastle Uni's failed to take part for health and safety reasons .... The Jarrow marchers will be turning in their gravesReference:
No-one is going to want to listen to a bunch of thugs smashing things up and hurling abuse at the police
The Suffragettes didn't do a half bad job, in the end
Shame some have to take the protests too far and spoilt it for those who just want to voice their anger in a non troublemaking way.
I know someone from the College who went on a trip with some students and lecturers to the first demonstration in London, and they witnessed someone being arrested but they went shopping after so at least some good came out of the trip.
I was considering about going to uni at some point too...
I know someone from the College who went on a trip with some students and lecturers to the first demonstration in London, and they witnessed someone being arrested but they went shopping after so at least some good came out of the trip
.I was considering about going to uni at some point too...
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The Suffragettes didn't do a half bad job, in the end
Very true. I think we are soppy nowadays. If the Government doesn't listen, protestors have to up the ante. 39 arrests out of thousands of demonstrators around the country is marginal in the extreme and not worth making this fuss. Students are right to come out and I'm glad they've stopped being so apathetic.Reference:
from what Growly Jnr was saying last night, the vast majority of the people she knows who were planning to go today were going with the intention of causing trouble,
.....and the vast majority of students i know were going to peacefully protest....does that equal it out?Reference:
That's not what was said on the beeb news saz. Even Glasgow students came out in sympathy, despite the fact they have no fees to pay in the first place. Surely that wouldn't have been organised by some yobs who have no clue about the educational system.
dunno, thats just what they were saying in the office - that it wasn't a NUS or ULC?? one 
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Very true. I think we are soppy nowadays. If the Government doesn't listen, protestors have to up the ante. 39 arrests out of thousands of demonstrators around the country is marginal in the extreme and not worth making this fuss. Students are right to come out and I'm glad they've stopped being so apathetic.
Absobloodylutely Col...shame that so many of the poor buggas voted Lib Dem...they're young, they now know that they have been duped, they're angry...why shouldn't they be?....Yeah, of course there are always going to be a minority who let their anger get the better of them..... As for the concept that a few anarchists /professional protesters are at the root of this, that was the 'Daily Mail' argument about the miners strikes/marches..the CND etc. etc. and how these things are discredited I was there, wore the t-shirt, it was absolutely not how it was