When did the "war hero" for servicemen injured in NI start? After this last time in Iraq or what?

Because none of the people I know who served in NI from the 60's to the 90's ever got "war hero" status.  *Suggests it may have something to do with tabloid jingoism and all that "our lads" stuff*

That much, we can both agree on. 

Bateman I am indifferent tbh,POW /Special category status I couldn't care less...My point was that OP doesn't see Steve as a *hero* as there was no war here,but would their opinion hold on those who were imprisoned or killed from nationalist or loyalist communities,...They are glorified and saw as heroes so imo it's a bad case of double standards.

*sniffs*  people like you make me proud to be forced against my will to call myself British

Fair enough, though I don't really understand the "double standards" thing. 

My point stands too.  'Member, there's people who consider Raoul Moat a hero.  I was merely pointing out that the prisoners in the Irish conflicts were never officially prisoners of war.  Which I believe they were not. 

Steve as never called himself a war hero. His other HMs and the press have called it him.

I apologise perhaps I haven't explained very well....I feel it's unfair to deem Steve or any serviceman/woman  who were injured/killed here as merely *unlucky* while members of *Proscribed* organisations are glorified and saw as heroic within their communities...Does that make it clearer?

totally agree

a friend of ours' son joined up and his main comment when we first saw him "and I get a gun"

Well yeah, except there are plenty who don't see the members of those proscribed organisations as heroes.  Who see them as twats.  Your point only really holds water if the members of the IRA, INLA etc etc had official status or even popular status as heroic whereas Steve and his ilk do not.  This is clearly not the case. 

You're stating that because one subsection of society deems a group of killers to be heroic, then it's unfair that society as a whole does not deem another group of killers - the opposition, if you like - to be heroes.  In all fairness, that makes no logical sense at all.

Bateman I feel you and I could go around in circles about this all day...My point was to ask OP her opinion on those who are glorified here(by some) as opposed to Steve who she see's as simply unlucky.

Do you mean in their own communities or in a wider sense? There are plenty from outside Northern Ireland (in the US or Australia for example) who believe that those who fought the British are heroes.

What's the line about one mans freedom fighter being another mans terrorist?


On the general question of the OP and the thread: Croc said what I wanted to say actually - thanks Croc

I was away there Lee, sorry.

Hitler was deemed a hero for some, does that mean that he should be deemed a hero for all? Like you say different people have different ideology's. The people in Tigers bay and the Shankhill would never deem Bobby Sands a hero, but they would ion the Falls road.

My point is, that the term Hero should be used sparingly for those who have literally put their life at risk in order to save that of someone elses. As far as I know Steve didn't lie on a bomb or take a bullet for someone, he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Its funny that the nurses and doctors who go out with the army to work in army camps with injured soldiers are never awarded the same status as the people who are provided with guns and other items of defence artillery.

No actiually Lee, I didn't see him as a hero becuase he was injured doing his job, not by taking a bullet for someone.

E.g. Firemen save peoples lives, if a fireman dies when saving someone from a housefire he is regarded a hero, however if he dies in a crash on the way to the fire is he still deemed a hero?

That's exactly how I see it, RR

And who would you deem as heroes?...You don't deem Steve but do you deem the men who died at Loughall ,the hungerstrikers,those who fought in the 1916 Easter Rising as heroes?....Is your problem with him because he was a serving British soldier and would you be equally prepared to argue that republican or loyalist *Heroes* aren't heroes either?

No you assume I deem them people as heroes, and you know what assuming does.

So ,in your opinion then throughout the conflict here there were no heroes at all?

No I'm not going to divulge information like that on a public forum, that's all.  Lee please stop victimising me here, Croc said the same thing and you haven;t commented on that.

In fairness to Lee though RR I would share her assumption about that.

And my assumption is based on the vast majority of the posts that I have seen you make which, is all we can base our assumptions of eachother on

Just because I am republican, doesn't mean that I agree with paramilitary activity.

You started the thread remember....Being from N Ireland myself I found it odd given your past opinions on the conflict here you seem appear to find there was no *War* here to strengthen your argument against Steve...As for victimising you,please behave,imo I asked legitimate questions to which you choose not to answer,your prerogative off course.

Past and present?

I suppose there is a certain amount of heroism involved in joining the armed forces, unless it is a sociopath joining, but, whichever side of the conflict someone is on, targetting civilians, as opposed to the military, is the dividing line between terrorist/freedom fighter, IMO.

I must admit, I was shocked to hear Queefer call Steve a hero!

Britain said that there was no war, 10 men dies in Long Kesh for Prisoner of War status. I just mean that the same British Government that said there was no war then are now looking upon the Army who died there was prisoners as war. Thats all.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/fo...thread.php?t=1298328

 Here is a similar thread on DS, many people think the same as me.

Britain said there was no war and in your OP you say the same...Some see it as a conflict,some see it as a war,but imo it's unfair to move the goalposts to strengthen an argument...As for Steve or any HM what they do outside the BB house is irrelevant ,I see him as a HM not a war hero or an ex serviceman who happened to serve here,both can taint opinion off him for some imo.

Although I admire the work our armed forces do (and feel desperately sorry for the families of those killed or injured), it is a job/profession that people choose to do. They are not conscripted, as were the soldiers during WW1 & WW2, or forced into the Services, like those who had fight in wars due to National Service during the 50s & 60s.   And while he may have dealt bravely with his injuries,  I personally don't regard Steve as a hero.

or stupidity, or social conditioning and ignorance, or lack of  viable alternative employment. Or sad little kids who have done nothing much with their lives and fall for the "you will be a hero" bullshit without having much idea of what joining up really means.

My 18 year old nephew came home a few months ago and announced he was thinking of joining up.  He has been looking for work since leaving school with little luck and one of the courses/thingamajigs that the job centre people forced him to go on was a sort of confidence building thing run by ex military people who, from what I can gather, are trying to (not so) subtley recruit teenagers.

My nephew, who in other things is reasonably bright, fell for the bullshit that he would get to drive big tanks, earn a load of money and ( most importantly to him) be given a car when he got out of the army...and of course no mention of what else he would have to do or what might be done to him   

Thankfully my family don't buy into all this patriotic hero bullshit and the poor boy got some heavy duty reality therapy, including some horror stories from his ex military grandad - he has now dropped the idea and wants to be a psychologist to help all the casualties that come back with their minds in bits instead....Phew!  But how many other silly little boys and girls- because that's what they often are at that age- just carry on and sign up?   

Heroic - my arse!

I don't see him as a war hero but I do admire how he has coped with his injuries.
A war hero to me is someone who drags his injured mate to saftey whilst being shot at or someone who single handedly captures an an enemy machine gun post!

I can agree with that Kimota

that's the pointi was going t make.

it's the hm's that have  gathered him to their collective bosom and bestowed the title 'war hero' on him.
but then the hm's are about as bright as my left buttock, so that would account for it.

I haven't noticed him telling them to stop though. He's loving it.

Indeed, Dancee, it can also be misinformed stupidity.

My brother-in-law was persuaded to join the army, after his mother found papers in his room, for joining the French Foreign Legion!

But, we do need armed forces, unfortunately, and in cases like Sierra Leone, where they prevented more civilians losing limbs to the maniacs rampaging through the country, I do feel proud of them.

It depends on what your definition of hero is.
Oxford English dictionary says this.
"a person, typically a man, who is admired for their courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities…"
 
Soooo a person may be a hero to one but not to someone else. It is individual. Is Steve a hero to me?  No he isn't because if you look at the definition then I would say he is lacking in the noble qualities department.
I think it is totally individual.

I have heard him say he's not a hero just someone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Really  haven't heard it myself, but I agree with him, thats exactly how I see it too.

But why is he exempt from nominations.

I think after this week people will start to nominate him.  I found it strange that Keely sticks to him like glue even though he was being absolutley rude to her- I think that's she thinks he is untouchable, and thus is trying to be come his ally.

I found that sickening to the extreme. He was so bloody rude to her - I would have just ignored him. That would drive him mad but instead she was demanding his attention.
Stupid bint.

It was the fact he was saying 'his air vent' and when she asked about his leg he said 'don't be so nosy' but then explained to Andrew.

I absolutley cannot understand how there isn't more uproar about it because it that was Ben or JJ the forums would be crashing due to volumes of threads!