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FM
Former Member

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14369252

 

Another decade, another famine.  Another news story showing us images of starvation.  The country this time is Somalia.  The rains have failed followed by the crops followed by hope. The past quarter of a century and more have seemed like a torrent of musicians helping to banish poverty.  It doesn't seem to have made much of a difference in the longer term.  Natural Selection may have been put on hold but it plays a long game.  So why do we bother?  

 

Large areas are under the control of Islamist 'extremists' who despise the West and all it stands for.  According to them the 'famine' is Western propaganda.  They appear to be preventing aid getting in, or starving people walking to a new place to die.  Such aid as arrives can be the invitation to be murdered. 

 

The countries in the Horn of Africa are in a mess.  The only things not in short supply are weapons and murderous ideologies.  Somalia itself is the source for all of the piracy that occurs in the Indian Ocean.  There is no oil and no inclination of the African States to impose order.  The Muslim countries do not seem to be forcing large amounts of aid and order on the countries especially Somalia.  So why do we bother?  

 

If, because of our (very unlikely) inspirational interventions, the countries became stable and well fed it is doubtful that they would offer any thanks to us at all.  Instead of hungry zealots and medievally minded murderers we would have well fed ones no doubt.  I reject any attempts by the apologists who cast all the blame back at the West in general and this country in particular for some acts committed hundreds of years ago by some ancestors or other.  

 

What we have in the Horn of Africa, and in Somalia in particular is an opportunity to help some people to live a little longer while doing nothing obvious to address one of the real reasons that the people are starving.  If there was stable secular government then perhaps the periodic droughts could be managed more successfully. All the time there is no government and what rule there is is the rule of medieval superstition, delivered with mindless cruelty and modern weaponry we may be wasting our time.  So do we really need to help the children in Somalia live a little longer?  Do we really need to bother?

How should we manage the refugee problem that this may generate and the tides of immigrants who are already crossing into Europe seeking a chance for life?  

 

What does the team think?  And why?

Replies sorted oldest to newest

too much for my brain to think about solutions or analyse properly in this heat atm... it's close to exploding as it is with the humidity..

 

but, if sending some money saves one child and that one child goes on to form a stable government in the future that is able to put in place facilities to aid in a drought season and all the other things that need doing, then it's money and aid well spent.. 

 

what I wanna know is why some guy on my tellybox said of Syria and  the government shooting it's people that it's different to Libya hence no intervention..  dunno why. . both governments are trying to kill anyone who si against them..

 

anyways am orf to collapse and put a cool flannel on my head 

Mount Olympus *Olly*
Originally Posted by Mount Olympus *Olly*:

 

but, if sending some money saves one child and that one child goes on to form a stable government in the future that is able to put in place facilities to aid in a drought season and all the other things that need doing, then it's money and aid well spent.. 

 

 

I'll agree with that .............................I'm pretty ignorant with regard to the politics of it all but if people are starving and need help I'm quite happy to throw my small change in a bucket and increase my (very small monthly donation) to Oxfam. It really isn't any effort at all ......................it's simply humanity isn't it?

Soozy Woo
Originally Posted by sprout:

But really, is whatever we throw at it going to be enough? 

Probably not but if it saves lives in the interim that's good enough IMO. Who knows what the long term solution is? We can't even fix our own country. When you're looking at 'the big picture' it does indeed seem to be an impossible task. When you look at each individual, precious life - if some of them can be saved - what's the problem in donating small change? A little bit here a little bit there really can save lives.

 

I give ........................i don't stint myself but - if I chuck my small change into a bucket i like to think it goes some way to making a difference. I can't imagine what forces or money will totally reshape the lives of those in Somalia (and the like) - just stopping some people dying of starvation is enough for me.

 

The question - 'Is it worth the effort' my answer is - a small donation really isn't an effort at all is it?

Soozy Woo

On TV recently was a prog about FAMINE

it sed the hand outs were being reduced and over time stopped - in preference to self support

It highlighted a village (name escapes me) that had been supported with food aid for FIFTY YEARS!!!

This aid was to be withdrawn in favour of self sufficiency

The fields were ploughed - seed sowed  . . . and the crop FAILED . . . again!!!

 

Like i asked before - is it not time for some areas to be abandoned?

Saint
Originally Posted by Renton:

 

 

Like i asked before - is it not time for some areas to be abandoned?

No we're human, whether you are religious or not, how can you not want to help a fellow human being in such hard times?  My sons paternal family are from Somalia and I know exactly why they fled and I don't blame them, but others there are not as lucky to have the means to go somewhere where they might get food or water. I know Somalia is a difficult country to want to give aid to due to them not having a recognised government , but you know people are risking their lives to go in to that country and try to help the starving, so if they are willing to do that, could you not be willing to put your hand in your pocket and donate a few (or more) pence?

Cinds
Originally Posted by Cinds:
Originally Posted by Renton:

 

 

Like i asked before - is it not time for some areas to be abandoned?

No we're human, whether you are religious or not, how can you not want to help a fellow human being in such hard times?  My sons paternal family are from Somalia and I know exactly why they fled and I don't blame them, but others there are not as lucky to have the means to go somewhere where they might get food or water. I know Somalia is a difficult country to want to give aid to due to them not having a recognised government , but you know people are risking their lives to go in to that country and try to help the starving, so if they are willing to do that, could you not be willing to put your hand in your pocket and donate a few (or more) pence?

 

When people are dying and helpless to help themselves through no fault of their own ........................how can you turn your back and wipe your hands? they are human beings ...................a bit of food and water to sustain them isn't too much to ask for is it. We live in a world of plenty ......................shameful to say but the stuff I throw out each week could feed a family for some time. It really is no effort to chuck a few pence/quid into a bucket ..........................people are dying - for want of the very basics we take for granted. Is it AN EFFORT to try and help?

Soozy Woo
Originally Posted by Soozy Woo:
Originally Posted by sprout:

But really, is whatever we throw at it going to be enough? 

Probably not but if it saves lives in the interim that's good enough IMO. Who knows what the long term solution is? We can't even fix our own country. When you're looking at 'the big picture' it does indeed seem to be an impossible task. When you look at each individual, precious life - if some of them can be saved - what's the problem in donating small change? A little bit here a little bit there really can save lives.

 

I give ........................i don't stint myself but - if I chuck my small change into a bucket i like to think it goes some way to making a difference. I can't imagine what forces or money will totally reshape the lives of those in Somalia (and the like) - just stopping some people dying of starvation is enough for me.

 

The question - 'Is it worth the effort' my answer is - a small donation really isn't an effort at all is it?

I get your point Soozy, but really, we've chucked an awful lot at these places and still it hasn't done any good. Have the right people got it to go to the right people I wonder? It's sad, I know but what more can we do? 

FM
Originally Posted by Cinds:
Originally Posted by Renton:

 

 

Like i asked before - is it not time for some areas to be abandoned?

No we're human, whether you are religious or not, how can you not want to help a fellow human being in such hard times?  My sons paternal family are from Somalia and I know exactly why they fled and I don't blame them, but others there are not as lucky to have the means to go somewhere where they might get food or water. I know Somalia is a difficult country to want to give aid to due to them not having a recognised government , but you know people are risking their lives to go in to that country and try to help the starving, so if they are willing to do that, could you not be willing to put your hand in your pocket and donate a few (or more) pence?

Nooooooo you understand me incorrectly

I never meant abandon the people!!!

I meant that such areas should not be inhabited

Saint
Originally Posted by sprout:
Originally Posted by Soozy Woo:
Originally Posted by sprout:

But really, is whatever we throw at it going to be enough? 

Probably not but if it saves lives in the interim that's good enough IMO. Who knows what the long term solution is? We can't even fix our own country. When you're looking at 'the big picture' it does indeed seem to be an impossible task. When you look at each individual, precious life - if some of them can be saved - what's the problem in donating small change? A little bit here a little bit there really can save lives.

 

I give ........................i don't stint myself but - if I chuck my small change into a bucket i like to think it goes some way to making a difference. I can't imagine what forces or money will totally reshape the lives of those in Somalia (and the like) - just stopping some people dying of starvation is enough for me.

 

The question - 'Is it worth the effort' my answer is - a small donation really isn't an effort at all is it?

I get your point Soozy, but really, we've chucked an awful lot at these places and still it hasn't done any good. Have the right people got it to go to the right people I wonder? It's sad, I know but what more can we do? 

Africa is a huge continent and the weather/climate is harsh .............................I really don't see a long term solution but IMO every little bit helps. Every child is precious - every life is precious. It really breaks my heart to see the pictures coming out of there ......................I think of my little grand children and how much I love them and see those dying children on the TV screen and know that they are loved equally by family members. 

 

I know we'll never solve the endless problems in Africa but ..............their lives are never easy but they get by - then - when there is hardship and crops fail etc. they desperately need help - they are not at fault.

 

Sorry - I get very emotional

Soozy Woo
Originally Posted by kattymieoww:

The British public have donated 48 million so far,well done.

This is the kind of news i like to read about and hear. Thank for that info Katty. 

 

If only there was or could be a world UN, where every country is a member, to allow interventions  and get the governments in these countries kicked into touch, and step in.

 

Maybe that's too much of a long shot, but to get to the root of the problem, intervention needs to proceed in a major way. In the meantime all countries that can,  have to unite to aid. 

 

 

 

Ev (Peachy)
Last edited by Ev (Peachy)

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