quote:

Originally posted by Aimee:

quote:

Originally posted by BARMY BRUMMIE:
yes I must admit, I was thinking that they were on about in the kitchen once we had l/f on - i didnt know it was continuing from earlier on - yes Freddie was indeed there

thank you, come on guys freddie and marcus claerly hear what siavash said

Admitted Aimee, however the bit in the BR when he said he wasn't there, i think he was talking about not being there when Kris said it but believed Siavash when he said that Kris had said it.
He was however there when Siavash named Kris and Karly for doing the deed, (which Kris swore on his mother's life he never said).
What is it they say about 'swing's and roundabout's??
Not making excuses for any of them though and it was pathetic that it went on for soooo long.

quote:

Originally posted by Aimee:
fair enough, but like i've said all 3 suddenly couldn't remeber at the same time

The following is just my opinion:
Siavash and Freddie were both drunk and clearly confused by the argument (as was Noirin). The HL show really didn't do justice to last night's "he said"/"she said" shouting match. Most FMs were confused about what exactly Noirin was referring to, never mind the HMs. I wouldn't be surprised if Siavash and Freddie simply didn't remember things properly.

Marcus, I think, is slightly different. I suspect he was deliberately pleading ignorance so as to keep out of it.

quote:

Originally posted by inkas pal:

quote:

Originally posted by Nana Lou:

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene's Lair:

quote:

Originally posted by Aimee:

quote:

Originally posted by BARMY BRUMMIE:
yes I must admit, I was thinking that they were on about in the kitchen once we had l/f on - i didnt know it was continuing from earlier on - yes Freddie was indeed there

thank you, come on guys freddie and marcus claerly hear what siavash said

Just because they heard it doesn't mean they remember hearing it.
I'm not so sure about Marcus, but Freddie's clearly drunk, and with all the shouting I wouldn't be surprised if he's confused about what specific conversation Noirin was referring to - after all, most FMs were last night...

Oh and BTW: at the end of the HL show, we heard Noirin agree with Freddie that he wasn't there at the crucial moment...

that is a valid point. I know that I don't always remember things properly when I've drank too much.(not that I do ever drink too much.....she says sweetly)

Freddie knew exactly what he was doing.

He along with Siavash and Marcus were trying to recruit Noirin into their group and Siavash bulled her about others calling her a rabbit.

She called his bluff and then both Siavash and Freddie lied.

You win a prize

quote:

Originally posted by Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing:

quote:

Originally posted by Aimee:
and not in the toilet when kris and karly's names where mentioned

It's not clear. not all the relevant bits of the convo were shown, so it looks like he might have been there but the bit he was saying he wasn't there might have been another bit.

i'm watching it again, but from what i saw freddie WAS sitting there when siavash said their name

all the above is correct, and they all lie!!

i think what was being done is, siavash was testing nor-thebore-reen hence why the promise came, siavash is his roundabout way, was outing nor-thebore-reen to the others, true to form, as soon as she could she bolted and opened her mouth.

i do have a helmet on for the pelting of rotted fruit coming my way

Has it occurred to anyone that Freddie probably was in the toilet when the names were FIRST mentioned, and that the clip on BBLB was part of the discussion afterwards once he had returned?

just a suggestion...

Although I can't recall the exact incident, I am sure I have heard them say that about Noirin at some time. I can't remember them actually saying rabbit, but the fact that she goes from group to group.

quote:

Originally posted by Bethni:

quote:

Originally posted by Aimee:

quote:

Originally posted by BARMY BRUMMIE:
yes I must admit, I was thinking that they were on about in the kitchen once we had l/f on - i didnt know it was continuing from earlier on - yes Freddie was indeed there

thank you, come on guys freddie and marcus claerly hear what siavash said

Admitted Aimee, however the bit in the BR when he said he wasn't there, i think he was talking about not being there when Kris said it but believed Siavash when he said that Kris had said it.
He was however there when Siavash named Kris and Karly for doing the deed, (which Kris swore on his mother's life he never said).
What is it they say about 'swing's and roundabout's??
Not making excuses for any of them though and it was pathetic that it went on for soooo long.

i get what you mean

quote:

Originally posted by Jenny:
Although I can't recall the exact incident, I am sure I have heard them say that about Noirin at some time. I can't remember them actually saying rabbit, but the fact that she goes from group to group.

yes thank you, i thought i must have been seeing and hearing things, but they did, cant remember when though, every day is the same to me

quote:

Originally posted by Jenny:
Although I can't recall the exact incident, I am sure I have heard them say that about Noirin at some time. I can't remember them actually saying rabbit, but the fact that she goes from group to group.

Yes, I recall it too and I'm sure they were sat at the smoking area when it was mentioned but it didn't seem particularly relevant at the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene's Lair:

quote:

Originally posted by Aimee:
fair enough, but like i've said all 3 suddenly couldn't remeber at the same time

The following is just my opinion:
Siavash and Freddie were both drunk and clearly confused by the argument (as was Noirin). The HL show really didn't do justice to last night's "he said"/"she said" shouting match. Most FMs were confused about what exactly Noirin was referring to, never mind the HMs. I wouldn't be surprised if Siavash and Freddie simply didn't remember things properly.

Marcus, I think, is slightly different. I suspect he was deliberately pleading ignorance so as to keep out of it.

it was just the way i saw it, im impartial (sp) this year

The most important thing to emerge from this is Noirin's betrayal of a private conversation between her, Siavash, Marcus and Freddie. She promised not to repeat what Siavash said, but she clearly did. And she had the whole house in uproar because of her inability to keep her strident shrill and shrewish mouth closed. Through her betrayal, it is possible that Siavash will be immediately up for eviction next week. The moral of the story for all of them in the house should be 'don't trust Noirin', she's a blabber mouth, untrustworthy and she is a betrayer of confidences.

quote:

Originally posted by fz:

quote:

Originally posted by mozart:
i think what peed them off the most was that Noirin said she would never tell another HM what Siavash was about to tell her. Then what does she go and do.

And would it have been fairer for noirin to nominate karly and kris based on lies?

But was it lies? We didn't see the whole thing on the HLs and we didn't actually see the whole thing on the L/F either as part of the convo had happened before the L/F came on.
So really we will never know the full story.

Did Siavash at any point say Kris and Karly's names? Yes
Did Siavash at any point deny saying Kris and Karly's names? Yes
Did Siavash at any point agree he said Kris and Karly's names? Yes
Were these things referring to the same point in the conversation? No

quote:

Originally posted by Twee Surgeon:
The most important thing to emerge from this is Noirin's betrayal of a private conversation between her, Siavash, Marcus and Freddie. She promised not to repeat what Siavash said, but she clearly did. And she had the whole house in uproar because of her inability to keep her strident shrill and shrewish mouth closed. Through her betrayal, it is possible that Siavash will be immediately up for eviction next week. The morale of the story for all of them in the house should be 'don't trust Noirin', she's a blabber mouth, untrustworthy and she is a betrayer of confidences.

But it's OK for karly and kris ( and I cant stand either of them) to pick up two extra nominations next week from noirin based on siavash's lies....which is what would have happened if she hadnt confronted them.

Now....we ALL know kris is a goner this week but if he wasn't, siavash seriously tried to influence nominations by lying.

quote:

Originally posted by Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing:

quote:

Originally posted by fz:

quote:

Originally posted by mozart:
i think what peed them off the most was that Noirin said she would never tell another HM what Siavash was about to tell her. Then what does she go and do.

And would it have been fairer for noirin to nominate karly and kris based on lies?

But was it lies? We didn't see the whole thing on the HLs and we didn't actually see the whole thing on the L/F either as part of the convo had happened before the L/F came on.
So really we will never know the full story.

Did Siavash at any point say Kris and Karly's names? Yes
Did Siavash at any point deny saying Kris and Karly's names? Yes
Did Siavash at any point agree he said Kris and Karly's names? Yes
Were these things referring to the same point in the conversation? No

Kris and Karly both confronted siavash and demanded he say if they had ever called noirin a rabbit.....siavash very clearly said NO they hadnt. He then called them all dicks and stormed out. So at Siavash's own admission he lied. Still looking cute as hell tho.

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:
Has it occurred to anyone that Freddie probably was in the toilet when the names were FIRST mentioned, and that the clip on BBLB was part of the discussion afterwards once he had returned?

just a suggestion...

That's what Freddie said last night... he admitted being there when Marcus was pulled into the conversation... he said the original conversation started in the kitchen... it was mentioned about the rabbit.. he went to the toilet, came back and the conversation had moved to the lounge area where Marcus was. He said Rodrigo was there at the original chat.

Just before Freddie's outburst...(that looks like it came from nowhere)he was having a one on one conversation with Noirin outside the bedroom where she asked him what had been said...he told her the way HE remembered it...she called him a liar got up and went back into the bedroom - Freddie followed her telling her NOT to call him a liar....all not shown.

She then went on to call him a freak.

The bit we saw on the highlights looked as though he'd just jumped into the argument.

quote:

Originally posted by Aimee:

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene's Lair:

quote:

Originally posted by Aimee:
fair enough, but like i've said all 3 suddenly couldn't remeber at the same time

The following is just my opinion:
Siavash and Freddie were both drunk and clearly confused by the argument (as was Noirin). The HL show really didn't do justice to last night's "he said"/"she said" shouting match. Most FMs were confused about what exactly Noirin was referring to, never mind the HMs. I wouldn't be surprised if Siavash and Freddie simply didn't remember things properly.

Marcus, I think, is slightly different. I suspect he was deliberately pleading ignorance so as to keep out of it.

it was just the way i saw it, im impartial (sp) this year

Actually, so am I (more or less).
I just think we need to be careful about facts and opinions.
I agree with you on the facts here: Freddie was there when the names were mentioned.

However, whether or not he lied is a matter of opinion, and I really don't think we can be certain about that. There are a number of other possibilities, such as he forgot the incident, or was referring to a different conversation.
Personally, I'm really not sure either way...

quote:

Originally posted by Twee Surgeon:
The most important thing to emerge from this is Noirin's betrayal of a private conversation between her, Siavash, Marcus and Freddie. She promised not to repeat what Siavash said, but she clearly did. And she had the whole house in uproar because of her inability to keep her strident shrill and shrewish mouth closed. Through her betrayal, it is possible that Siavash will be immediately up for eviction next week. The morale of the story for all of them in the house should be 'don't trust Noirin', she's a blabber mouth, untrustworthy and she is a betrayer of confidences.

YES .. nor-thebore-reen has been playing a good games so far, but she has come unstuck with all this now, she went too far with the betrayal of siavash, and that is what it boils down to.
'i tll you what I THINK YOUR NAME IS (run actions) this is how siavash started the convo.

well, i'm watching it again and this to me looks like the start of the chat

quote:

Originally posted by fz:

quote:

Originally posted by Twee Surgeon:
The most important thing to emerge from this is Noirin's betrayal of a private conversation between her, Siavash, Marcus and Freddie. She promised not to repeat what Siavash said, but she clearly did. And she had the whole house in uproar because of her inability to keep her strident shrill and shrewish mouth closed. Through her betrayal, it is possible that Siavash will be immediately up for eviction next week. The morale of the story for all of them in the house should be 'don't trust Noirin', she's a blabber mouth, untrustworthy and she is a betrayer of confidences.

But it's OK for karly and kris ( and I cant stand either of them) to pick up two extra nominations next week from noirin based on siavash's lies....which is what would have happened if she hadnt confronted them.

Now....we ALL know kris is a goner this week but if he wasn't, siavash seriously tried to influence nominations by lying.

FZ i agree with you in theory but Kris DID actually call Noirin a rabbit. In a conversation in the garden last week he told Karly Noirin was like a rabbit flitting from group to group, Karly agreed with him.

We don't have the luxury of LF this year unfortunately and therefore can only speculate with the crumbs that BB feed us. To say this person lied and that person lied is wrong IMO because none of us were there. Who's to say that Kris or Carly never ever said that Noirin was a bunny just because they swore they didn't? We have to just make our own minds up with a great big dollop of BB's "help"....as they have their own agenda which, to me, seems blatantly obvious who they want out

quote:

Originally posted by fz:

quote:

Originally posted by Twee Surgeon:
The most important thing to emerge from this is Noirin's betrayal of a private conversation between her, Siavash, Marcus and Freddie. She promised not to repeat what Siavash said, but she clearly did. And she had the whole house in uproar because of her inability to keep her strident shrill and shrewish mouth closed. Through her betrayal, it is possible that Siavash will be immediately up for eviction next week. The morale of the story for all of them in the house should be 'don't trust Noirin', she's a blabber mouth, untrustworthy and she is a betrayer of confidences.

But it's OK for karly and kris ( and I cant stand either of them) to pick up two extra nominations next week from noirin based on siavash's lies....which is what would have happened if she hadnt confronted them.

Now....we ALL know kris is a goner this week but if he wasn't, siavash seriously tried to influence nominations by lying.

It has been said on the forum, but I have no recall of it myself, that Kris and Karly have in fact said that she flits from group to group. So that part of Siavash's story may be relevant and factual. I would never argue on that point because I didn't hear them say such a thing. If Kris and Karly pick up two nominations because of Siavash's comments, it may be seen as poetic justice to some, bearing in mind the way these two have entered into a block nomination conspiracy against Freddie in the past. My main problem is with Noirin's betrayal of a confidence. It shows her as being shallow, weak and without principles.

Siavash was silly to trust her to keep a confidence. That is his only mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:

quote:

Originally posted by Jenny:
Although I can't recall the exact incident, I am sure I have heard them say that about Noirin at some time. I can't remember them actually saying rabbit, but the fact that she goes from group to group.

Yes, I recall it too and I'm sure they were sat at the smoking area when it was mentioned but it didn't seem particularly relevant at the time.

Yes it happened at the smoking area, Kris was playing with a skipping rope or something, winding it round his shoulder's, if i remember right. The word Rabbit was used.

quote:

Originally posted by fz:

quote:

Originally posted by Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing:

quote:

Originally posted by fz:

quote:

Originally posted by mozart:
i think what peed them off the most was that Noirin said she would never tell another HM what Siavash was about to tell her. Then what does she go and do.

And would it have been fairer for noirin to nominate karly and kris based on lies?

But was it lies? We didn't see the whole thing on the HLs and we didn't actually see the whole thing on the L/F either as part of the convo had happened before the L/F came on.
So really we will never know the full story.

Did Siavash at any point say Kris and Karly's names? Yes
Did Siavash at any point deny saying Kris and Karly's names? Yes
Did Siavash at any point agree he said Kris and Karly's names? Yes
Were these things referring to the same point in the conversation? No

Kris and Karly both confronted siavash and demanded he say if they had ever called noirin a rabbit.....siavash very clearly said NO they hadnt. He then called them all dicks and stormed out. So at Siavash's own admission he lied. Still looking cute as hell tho.

Hesaid no because they had never said that to him,nor did he claim they had, He said that that is what he thought they thought.

Siavash was 'There' in the garden when it was said... i dont remember if he was part of the conversation or if was just in the vicinity and heard it. It wasn't said quietly and to be honest i never thought anything of it. It was just a remark, an off the cuff comment.

quote:

Originally posted by Bethni:
Siavash was 'There' in the garden when it was said... i dont remember if he was part of the conversation or if was just in the vicinity and heard it. It wasn't said quietly and to be honest i never thought anything of it. It was just a remark, an off the cuff comment.

he also, in the midst of that row, asked kris outright, when everyone else was shouting, did you say she was a rabbit flitting from group to goup, kris answered NO

i stand by what i said earlier, siavash, said this to nor-thebore-reen with that explicit promise from her, before he said anything, as an idea to out her, and show herself up for what she is, and she played right into his hands!!

quote:

Originally posted by Bethni:
Siavash was 'There' in the garden when it was said... i dont remember if he was part of the conversation or if was just in the vicinity and heard it. It wasn't said quietly and to be honest i never thought anything of it. It was just a remark, an off the cuff comment.

I remember this too Bethni, although I don't remember them saying 'rabbit'... but I do remember there was no doubt what they were inferring about her. And yes, Siavash was there... he was standing near them but not participating at all as I recall.

A couple of weeks ago (ish) Karly, Lisa and Freddie were sitting in the smoking area with a few other HMs on the periphery. Karly and Lisa were talking about the groups (not in a bad way) and noticed that Norine flitted from group to group. I can't remember if it was on Live feed or the HL show, but I definitely, 100% heard it myself.

quote:

FZ i agree with you in theory but Kris DID actually call Noirin a rabbit. In a conversation in the garden last week he told Karly Noirin was like a rabbit flitting from group to group, Karly agreed with him.

This is true!!!! Siavash was trying to help and make her aware, she runs and tells everyone and they both deny it. Perhaps they did not remember saying it but we do. Siavash did not lie.

And I think Marcus and Freddie did just want to be dragged into the whole mess and tried to stay away from it for as long as they could.

Maybe hes lying maybe he was in the toilet but didnt want to come centre of attention

So why did siavash say when challenged he had NEVER heard kris or karly bitch about noirin? Which was the complete opposite of the line he was trying to feed noirin earlier?

I am sure they have all bitched about each other.....but siavash made it up to get noirin to join camp good....and he is competitive enough to throw two names into the pot for noirin to nominate next week.

He didnt bank on noirin being drunk enough to front them over it....which in turn led to karly and kris fronting siavash....which in turn led to him admitting he has never heard them say anything....and he couldnt answer them when they asked him why he said they did....hence calling them all dicks and storming out.

His plan was to split up the block vote and may have had the opposite effect.

quote:

Originally posted by cinderella123:

quote:

FZ i agree with you in theory but Kris DID actually call Noirin a rabbit. In a conversation in the garden last week he told Karly Noirin was like a rabbit flitting from group to group, Karly agreed with him.

This is true!!!! Siavash was trying to help and make her aware, she runs and tells everyone and they both deny it. Perhaps they did not remember saying it but we do. Siavash did not lie.

And I think Marcus and Freddie did just want to be dragged into the whole mess and tried to stay away from it for as long as they could.

Exactly! Marcus and Freddie preferred to trust Siavash over her, believing he would not have said it without good grounds.

Problem is, BB wouldn't revisit it in this way, so the edit looks bad whatever way you look at it!

Freddie never said that those names hadn't been said in front of him. He did say that he was in the toilet when they were first revealed.

Maybe that was the only part of tonight's highlight show that was edited by a professional?

BB was originally designed as a social experiment.

There is an irony in that when considering the comments on here about tonights show.

People are excusing, interpreting, justifying and doing back flips because they can't bring themselves to admit the basic truth - Siavash and Freddie were outed as liars.

It is straight forward and even a primary school kid could spot it.

However, the ego of fm's who have identified their support for Siavash/Freddie will not permit them to accept the obvious fact that they both lied.

So ego becomes more important than recognising when people are lying because fans don't want to lose face.

As I said BB was initially a social experiment.

It provides interesting and potentially dangerous indicators on how we see and don't want to see what's right in front of us.

quote:

Originally posted by fz:
So why did siavash say when challenged he had NEVER heard kris or karly bitch about noirin? Which was the complete opposite of the line he was trying to feed noirin earlier?

I am sure they have all bitched about each other.....but siavash made it up to get noirin to join camp good....and he is competitive enough to throw two names into the pot for noirin to nominate next week.

He didnt bank on noirin being drunk enough to front them over it....which in turn led to karly and kris fronting siavash....which in turn led to him admitting he has never heard them say anything....and he couldnt answer them when they asked him why he said they did....hence calling them all dicks and storming out.

His plan was to split up the block vote and may have had the opposite effect.

Siavash also said last night he wouldn't betray Noirin and say all the thing's she had said about Lisa and co... and he didnt. That was the reason, I THINK, that he didn't come right out and say to Kris, 'yes you said it', he doesn't want to be known as a gossip. He was trying to be a friend to Noirin last night, warning her gently, that's why she had to coax the names out of him.

As for Marcus and Freddie lying.... i've lost count how many times ive been asked by my mother when one of my sibbling's done something wrong, 'what happened' and ive answered , 'I don't know, i wasn't there'. I wouldn't outright lie for them but didn't want to get them into more trouble or land them in it. Best plead ignorance, technically i'm still lying but not as much as i would if i opened my mouth.

Does that make sense? My fnger's are going faster than my brain here

quote:

Originally posted by Xochiquetzal:

quote:

Originally posted by Bethni:
Siavash was 'There' in the garden when it was said... i dont remember if he was part of the conversation or if was just in the vicinity and heard it. It wasn't said quietly and to be honest i never thought anything of it. It was just a remark, an off the cuff comment.

I remember this too Bethni, although I don't remember them saying 'rabbit'... but I do remember there was no doubt what they were inferring about her. And yes, Siavash was there... he was standing near them but not participating at all as I recall.

And thus he can truthfully say that they never said it TO HIM.

quote:

Originally posted by inkas pal:
BB was originally designed as a social experiment.

There is an irony in that when considering the comments on here about tonights show.

People are excusing, interpreting, justifying and doing back flips because they can't bring themselves to admit the basic truth - Siavash and Freddie were outed as liars.

It is straight forward and even a primary school kid could spot it.

However, the ego of fm's who have identified their support for Siavash/Freddie will not permit them to accept the obvious fact that they both lied.

So ego becomes more important than recognising when people are lying because fans don't want to lose face.

As I said BB was initially a social experiment.

It provides interesting and potentially dangerous indicators on how we see and don't want to see what's right in front of us.

But isnt that what you're doing? You don't KNOW the truth because we havent been shown it yet you're accusing both Siavash and Freddie of lies and therefore BB has manipulated you into thinking you know the "basic truth"

quote:

Originally posted by Mathematics:

quote:

Originally posted by Aimee:
don't like to say this but noirin was right and siavash, marcus and freddie lied

Noirin promised Siavash that she would not repeat what he told her. He actually said "You have to promise me that you will not speak about this to anyone", and she agreed wholeheartedly.

Then what did she do? She scampered to the bedroom and repeated what Siavash had told her. That makes her a liar too.

I mentioned this in another post but no one
picked up on it. Everyone is focusing on the lie/not a lie issue but I was disgusted with
Noirin promising silence then breaking a leg
to get in the bedroom to stab Siavash in the
back.

I hardly need another reason to dislike this
bitch of a girl but she keeps coming up with them.

quote:

People are excusing, interpreting, justifying and doing back flips because they can't bring themselves to admit the basic truth - Siavash and Freddie were outed as liars.

But then the same could be said for this statement> As much as people might not want to believe/accept that Freddie and Siavash lied, your statement could be seen as you wnting to show/believe that they did.

As they say, there are two sides to every coin.