We're all indocrtinated in our childhood, it's how we deal with it when we get older. We can't just deny some people their religion. I happen to be an agnostic, but I can't blame my parents for trying to educate me into their religion. It's natural. We live in a diverse society, so we have to get used to seeing things we haven't be used to before. The burka doesn't actually stop eye contact, does it. The only time  I would advise to take it off would be in a bank or on leaving the country and, after listening to a rather protracted discussion about this a few months ago, all the women concerned said that they would not be adverse to taking the burka off for those reason.

Yesterday, I was waiting in the car while my daughter unloaded her shopping. Out comes a young man who is in all sorts of trouble over all sorts of things. The first thing he does after closing the gate is pulling his hoodie so far over his head that he can only see a foot in front of him. No eyecontact possible, no conversation possible, he just wants to get to his mate's house unspotted, so that he can have his spliff and have a laugh about the next person they will terrorize. I know which I prefer.

I'd like to get pissed in Saudi.

Of course it should be removed for passport checks, when teaching kids etc., but I would hate to see any type of clothing banned in this country. Would you ban sun glasses, as it restricts eye contact? Or covering your face with scarves, in cold weather?

What I have noticed, is that more and more Muslim women are choosing to cover themselves and it seems to coincide with the rise in Islamophobia, since 9/11. I think, in this country, most of them are making a statement, rather than being bullied into it by men.

Why do you think they're choosing to do it more since 9/11 Blizz?

Of course it should be removed for passport checks, when teaching kids etc., but I would hate to see any type of clothing banned in this country. Would you ban sun glasses, as it restricts eye contact? Or covering your face with scarves, in cold weather?

What I have noticed, is that more and more Muslim women are choosing to cover themselves and it seems to coincide with the rise in Islamophobia, since 9/11. I think, in this country, most of them are making a statement, rather than being bullied into it by men.

But how is hiding their face more going to make people less against muslims/Islam?    If anything, it is going to turn people against them more, surely??  If they want to be accepted more, because of 'Islamaphobia,' then surely them hiding behind their burkha is going to make things worse, isn't it?

I guess this is where we differ, as my parents never christened me or my siblings as they decided we were to make up our own minds when we had learnt more & growing up moving around the world I have chosen not to conform to any as I see good & bad in all of them- mostly bad in alot unfortunately!
Did folk not look you in the eye & say Good morning to you when you were growing up cos they did me & still do - I like that but when living up in Birmingham for the best part of last year I found it very hard to even make eye contact with women who were covered up let alone pass the time of day with them...I find that rather sad!

Yes, ban them. And ban religion too while we're at it. We can do without all the wars, terrorist attacks, hatred between one group of deluded religious clowns and another, corrupt churches with more money than sense who protect their homegrown paedophiles having given them a perfect place to hide and groom children, homophobia in the name of religion, plain, inarguable STUPIDITY in the name of religion, forced marriages, suppressed women, dreadful songs (sorry hymns) warbling on about some ridiculous imaginary deity or other... ban the lot and if any of them don't like it deport the lot of them and make sure they don't come back, job's a good 'un.

Sorry slim,but I don't get your point at all. Yes people look(ed) me in the eye, in fact in those days, blokes would still take their hats off to a woman (that's a whole different discussion ) It might not make for immediate community spirit, but if you want it, you could start a tea/coffee hour when most of the kids are in school and see how that would go down. If you met them for a few weeks, you'd probably be able to tell them what you thought of their attire and they'd tell you why they wear it.

 If anyone from the west violates THEIR laws in the east, they go to prison, even something like kissing in public or showing your legs or arms off in public.  So IMO they have no right to violate our laws and do things their way ALL the time. 

Yes, ban them. And ban religion too while we're at it. We can do without all the wars, terrorist attacks, hatred between one group of deluded religious clowns and another, corrupt churches with more money than sense who protect their homegrown paedophiles having given them a perfect place to hide and groom children, homophobia in the name of religion, plain, inarguable STUPIDITY in the name of religion, forced marriages, suppressed women, dreadful songs (sorry hymns) warbling on about some ridiculous imaginary deity or other... ban the lot and if any of them don't like it deport the lot of them and make sure they don't come back, job's a good 'un.

My youngest is 18 & I have never drank coffee let alone done mornings of it 
My point is if the wearing of this garment is not enforced then I see it as an ignorance to the needs of other humans - we need to see faces !

So, we're just left with wars about each other's land.

I don't like seeing them at all although there are days when I think it would be a godsend to wear one
I don't know really about banning them though. I think people have the right to wear what they like provided it causes no harm. I would agree that there are probably quite a few women forced to wear them by male relatives and their communities and so banning them would solve that problem but I feel really uneasy about the state intervening in someones personal choice of clothing.
That being said I don't think that anyone should be able to refuse to take them off for the purposes of easy identification such as passport control and exams etc

But that's just our western outlook slim. what does it matter in the scheme of things. Find out about the individual and I reckon give it a month or two and you wouldn't give a fig what they wear.

See this is just my point - not seeing my face you can't see my expression of exasperation- I don't give a jot what a person wears - but this garment is a barrier, which I think is a great shame!
Anyways it is Friday nite & I have a date with Mr Smirnoff so if you don't mind am gonna vacate this thread & maybe have a lil fun elsewhere

Good points Cologne but surely the women who are forced to wear it are the ones who are extremely unlikely to have the freedom to say so!!
I'm sure there are women who are happy to wear it though, like I said I would be glad of it on some days when I have to go out but don't want to be seen

 have you seen what it does to the work surface! 

I quite like beetroot  But I don't agree with people eating beetroot underneath their burka's 

Straight from the jar on to the plate with the rest of the salad  You're supposed to eat it not build little houses out of it or whatever you were doing 

 Not houses! -  towers 

You tellin me you have never dripped