I don't know who Helen is  but I am in total agreement with you Kaffs, although in Countries where it is legal there are flaws. Its the oldest profession in the world and its always going to go on, so why not legalize it! I couldn't do it I would be far to fussy  

 

Yes it should be legal

If it was legal, then maybe some of the girls would have better protection from assault or pimps.

 

It largely depends as well on why the girl has taken that route - for some it's to feed a drug habit, some because they believe they have no other way of earning a living? It's always going to happen so maybe if it happened in an environment where the girls were regulated i.e. (HIV testing being mandatory) and the safety issue why not?

 

As for Helen - I have no problem with her being a former prossie what I have a problem with is her selling her story to 1) get more money 2) to get fame by default for it (she is in the house largely because of sleeping with Rooney)

 

I hold Rooney more responsible because he's the one who chose to go with a prossie while his wife was heavily pregnant 

 

as you were 

Whilst I tend to agree with you morally Pengy.. if we play devil's advocate - why is it wrong for her to make extra money on the back of her work if she's been with someone famous.... isn't it like Dorothy Perkins saying 'Princess Kate is wearing our dress'  

 

I guess if it wear legalised, they could sign confidentially agreements.

true Kaffs   I just feel sorry for her son because in her pursuit to get more money she's exposed herself and by default exposed her son to years of ridicule and possible bullying for a few thousand quid that would have been spent long ago 

On the issue of Helen, I don't like the girl because of her nasty temper, crude mouth and bullying ways. I don't particularly care that she used to be a prostitute but I do think that selling kiss'n'tell stories is a horrible thing to do - even when it's about that plonker Rooney. As with everything in life, we are judged by the choices we make and the people we are.

 

I'm not sure where I stand on legalising prostitution. Fencesitter.com

On one hand, I hate that anyone feels that selling their bodies is the way to earn money, and I hate that some people are coerced into doing it.

However, the 'profession' isn't going to go away and legalisation may provide some safeguards for those doing it.

 

Kaffs, I too am a dinosaur and think that sex is something which should happen as part of a loving relationship, but casual sex, casual relationships and disposable pregnancies seems to be the way of today's world.

yep - agree with all that.   but if it was a bona fide 'profession' - maybe it wouldn't carry the same stigma for the kids.    (I know it would take generations to change the attitudes.. just musing..)

yep.. and I can't help but find that a bit sad.   I do appreciate that it's probably us that's out of step.   I just find it a bit hypocritical that she's probably being tagged a slut and a slapper in some cases by people who'll go out and get 'mortal' and shag some stranger like that one from Georgie Shore.  At least she's making a living from it.   I've no idea why she chose to do it btw.. but maybe she felt it was a way to provide for her son if her parents did cut her off?

I agree with you about the hypocrasy/double standards of the Geordie Shore types.

From what I've read, as a teenager Helen was taken into care when her behaviour was out of control. I don't think she had bad parents, they simply didn't know how to cope with her. She became pregnant when she was in care and was given a flat for her and the baby. She got into debt - by going on a holiday, not buying nappies and food for her baby - and was advised by someone that prostitution was an easy way to make cash and decided to go for it. All of this could be twaddle, but that's what I've read.

I can't really put it into words. However, prostitution is, I think legal in The Fatherland.
Over the years we have walked past them in various Northern areas and seen the deterioration from a group of well dressed, well fed, healthy group of ladies, to a bunch of smacked up, pock marked, skeletal victims.
I don't think the debate lies in the legalisation area, but it's more to do with "how do we stop women being exploited by men?"  There are, I'm afraid lots of Eastern European gangs involved.

Again, I agree about the gangs - and, again, even it's legalised that is always going to go on, unfortunately.    The exploitation thing, to me, isn't a black and white issue.  In the case of forced prostitution, of course, I agree.  However, it's a fact that not all prozzies are smacked up and pock marked - some are intelligent, attractive females who have made a career choice of it.   Who's exploiting who in that situation, if indeed anyone is...

Prostitution isn't illegal in the UK.

Most of the activities around it are though, the customers break the law, I think, rather than the prostitute.

 

As for Helen,lots of people criticise her for being overbearing and rude and a bit gobby.But it's almost inevitable that such posts end with a sideswipe at her morality, or lack of it.

I really don't like the implicit assumption by many, that if she was a prostitute in the past, then she still must be so that makes it ok to call her anything  you want.

I saw many posts during the Steven/Kimberly sex stuff having a pop at Helen because she maintained public sex on tv  pretty scummy and she wouldn't do it,posters assumed that as a sex worker she would have no such qualms and refused to accept that anyone who worked in the sex industry, had forfeited any right to any consideration or feelings.

 

*disclaimer*

(am referring to many posts I have read on various forums, not just this one)

Yeah, I knew there was some technicality... 'living off immoral earnings' and all that.  I though someone would pick me up on it.. trust you     Yep - the bit in bold is what got me thinking about it all.

Putting the question of legalising prostitution to one side (as I'm undecided on the issue).

I have to question the morals and the mind set of anyone who wants to be highly intimate with strangers  . . . as a job. A job perhaps lasting years.

 

Maybe a lifetime of being highly intimate both physically and possibly emotionally with hundreds of strangers - for money.

Sounds rather distasteful to me.

I don't see why it's any different doing it as a job or as a hobby... . as it no doubt is for a lot of people.   Sex (imo) used to be about love and affection, nowadays, it's more about recreation it seems.  Why not get paid for enjoying your hobby.

 

.. and I doubt that emotion comes in to it, hence the comment about 'kissing' last night.

Kaffs are you saying that sex is never about emotion/feeling etc ...on behalf of the prostitute? That he/she never enjoys it or gets some sort of satisfaction.

I'm not talking personal attachment to a client but more of the sharing of yourself in a highly charged personal way - with a stranger - for cash

I'm not saying that at all... I said a lot of people seem to have sex as a means of recreation, therefore I guess they enjoy it.  What I said was why not get paid for enjoying your hobby.     If you like painting, or knitting, or playing golf and people want to pay you to do it... why not?   As I say - not for me, but horses for courses.   Supply and demand... 

I'm undecided but like I sed - I question the morals and mind set of anyone who would want to be highly intimate with strangers possibly for years ... as a living

I question the mindset of anyone who'd want to be highly intimate with a stranger, full stop (their morals are their own business)    That said, if you're going to do it, I don't see the difference in doing it for fun or for work. 

 

 

Pengy said it for me ^ 

The argument could be furthered to justifying the legalisation of many things - like drug dealing perhaps?

If legalised then their morals become our morals

why should it be a moral issue if it's legal?

I don't agree..  having sex isn't necessarily going to get you hooked on something that might kill you (unless you're Michael Douglas)  .. but depending on the drug, there might be a case for that too.  You can do that thread though.

Health advice: don't argue the point with Renton. You'd get more sense out of a pot plant.

Let's take it to the nth  degree . . . .

 

Should KAFFS be legalised or remain illegal 

Shut up Roger

I know that, but since I started the thread I thought it my duty to at least try to interact with him, just this once.

he's boring me now though....

Shup you too Kaffs

I'm more worried about the people trafficking into the sex industry, if legalising it could put a stop to the trafficking then I'm all for it. 

Prostitution is always going to happen, while there is clients out there willing to pay for sex, you'll have girls/boys willing to do it. You might as well make it safe for all and have some kind of legislation over it.

I do, however, object to the kiss and tell stories some of them benefit from. They have provided a service and been paid for it, no need to screw the client over again. They are then getting paid twice and the client didn't get any 'benefits' the second time.

Sorry for being rude Saint  but you drive me to distraction sometimes! 

 

Anyway...you  looking forward to your hols?  Any late changes to the itinerary ?

Agree.. legalise it and you can legislate against that.  All it takes is a basic confidentiality agreement at the outset surely?

I agree Bethni, for the most part.

 

I don't really have any objection to the kiss and tell stories, apart from the fact that they tend to be  boring more than anything else,I don't think using the services of a prostitute should be any more scandalous than being one.

If  everyone made a huge effort to be more open minded and honest about sex,maybe the world would be a happier place.

I agree that criminalising it probably does more harm than good ....but then I wonder whether legalising it would also be the thin eNd of the wedge . How many for example would welcome their daughters choosing prostitution as a legal career move ....

Fair point, and I guess it might put the idea into some heads, but I tend to think you have to be of the right mindset to go down that route anyway, and if they're going to do it anyway, better to be protected and mistress of their own fate.  

 

 

You do realise that whilst I like a good debate, and in principle I do believe it should be decriminalised - any daughter of mine would be locked in the attic if she even thought about it 

 

That's because of my beliefs on sex and love though.