DIScussion on this very thing just started here....

http://www.facebook.com/iancollinslateshow

Karma there's smoke coming out of my ears...they have no fecking clue, not one. I have a next door neighbour that is the same age as me with learning difficulties, I know the carers in this area are stampeding trying to get other jobs due to the cuts, I know she will have to go in a home if her carers can't come.... everything about this joining of tw@ts stinks 

THAT's ^^^ what stinks the most about all this and why every single case should be means tested. It's not bloody fair and it's not right that we, the public are expected to just shut up and put up either. They are trying to change things too much and too fast and as a result, many people who don't deserve it are going to be royally shafted. I really hope it doesn't come to that for your neighbour, she must feel excluded enough as it is, taking away her liberty of a normal life all because of the friggin Government is beyond ridiculous.

We should be more like the French...they have been demonstrating cos the retirement age over there has been raised to 62.

Hi Dame

She won't go into a home - that would cost far too much money..

Instead she will be "reassessed" and probably care cut - maybe from 30 to 15 mins a session, maybe from 3 times to twice daily.

It stinks.... it really stinks and what makes me so cross is that this so called government is saying that they have put more money into the NHS.

What good will that be when the beds will be full of poor souls who can't get home because there is no care package.

That may be the case but obviously that scheme isn't working therefore re-working it to make it better and more effective could have a positive outcome - we won't know for sure until it is in place but urely it is better to try new things to solve this problem and it not work rather than it back and do nothing at all.

No.

Exactly Karma, everyone seems to be heaped into this pile of "layabouts" with no thought about the ones that have needs, but have their own independence and I can see all that going and it really breaks your heart for those in genuine need. Those who rely on a key in the door to get out of bed, or need breakfast cooked for them,,,,, I never thought I would loathe any PM as much as Thatcher, but these two idiots are so heading to hold that crown. Now, to think some of those people, and I'm not saying all, will lose their benefits and made to do manual labour  I just have no words

Isadora, they have threatened her with a home before, she fell and broke her hip and then fell and broke her arm, in fact my brother was there to help her up when she broke her arm. The carers go in until she goes to a special needs place where they do light work..cutting back on her carers will only put her in danger. I wish I could do more, but I care for my mum...it's stinks all round.

FFS it is a ridiculous situation....
Does she have any family?

a brother, he takes her out for Sunday lunch....45 mins  Maybe I'm being harsh and I don't know what he would do in a situation that meant she had to go in a home, my gut feeling is saying absolutely zilch Isadora...I wish these people could live in the real world, I'm not saying Labour was ideal, but at least they had some social conscience 

I think what is more shocking is how the libdems have completely sold all their principles down the river.

I have said for ages that they just wanted to have power at any cost and sadly I am right.
You expect nothing less from Tories, but the Libdems bang on about fairness etc,,,

I'm disgusted Isadora, and more so with Charles Kennedy who I had a lot of respect for, I honestly thought he would say his piece, but no silence. I hope they sink into oblivion, it's not good enough for them, but I'l be happy

I think they will - how on earth will anyone ever believe in what they say again?

I think Prick Clegg will rise again under the guise of the tory party ...Issy, can I call you that?

Yes of course..

And you are right about him.
When they had the leader debates on the TV I spent all evening yelling at him.
GB came off the best - but sadly he had to fall on his sword in the end,

Thank you 

They can call GB all they want, but he had a heart and it was in the right place........... seems to me these lot seriously want to take half a leaf out of his book 

Sorry, but I can't agree with you there.

Leaving aside the fact that we don't know if New Deal is being replaced (this new proposal may be an addition), in what way can the new scheme possibly be regarded as better?

New Deal is a 13 week scheme that involves people working 24 hours a week for 13 weeks doing real work (even if it is just in a shop) with (in theory) the possibility of an actual job at the end of it, plus a training aspect (half-day a week) and a half-day job hunting.
Instead, that's being replaced (maybe) with a few weeks doing manual labour which should be done by (paid) council workers anyway. Again: how is that possibly better?

The reason I've been going on a lot about New Deal is because I don't think the general public knows much about it. From what I've seen on various boards today, I'm even more convinced about that, and I can't help putting on my cynical hat and feeling that the government are counting on the public not realising that this great new proposal is just a less effective version of something that already exists,

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that this proposal is just an attempt to pander to "Daily Mail readers" who love the idea of "workshy skivers" getting a "short-sharp shock". I rather suspect that it's either going to be dropped or else changed out of all recognition long before it's implemented.

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww i'd love to be a lab assistant! lol
OH is doing (NEW) new deal atm, they are pains in the arses...though not as bad as the last time he did it...tbh i think it actually gets in the way and his current advisor tells jim he's wasting his time for doing voluntary work and that he should give it up along with his paid for classroom assitant course to get a part time job for dominoes.
now...he doesn;t mind working for dominoes...and has applied for every job going that he can....but he doesn;t wanna and nor should he, give up his career progression, epsecially when he's paid for it and the course is only 3 hours a pissing week (though the voluntary is 2 days..thoguh he can do less or more)
there are ALOT of people who really are not bothered but he found some who are bothered dont think much of themselves or their ability by the time they get to new deal.

the jobcentre hates people who volunteer...they say it gets in the way of looking for work...so why is it diferent during these 4 weeks...oh yes....slave labour

when OH was at new deal 2 years ago, it was 13 weeks 9-5 sat in a stuffy room with a few ancient computers doing CVs and jobsearches. 30 min lunch break...HAD to go in under pain of death...meant to get a qualification at the end of it...he didn't cos they had cut backs and AFTEr everyone did the exam, they then decided to tell them they dont award a certificate anymore. the uproar that caused made them change that...but only for future new dealers...not my OH's class. it was 13 weeks of wasting time imo. and he'd come home with horrendous headaches from staring at a flickery old pc for that length of time each day.
the new deal he is on now is different. a whole year of seeing them, one 30 min or so appointment every two weeks, as well as signing on, you have to do 4 weeks work experience during that year somehwere along the line...and you dont get help finding a job, you get put down (least my OH's advisor does lol...the other one there is lovely and helpful)

it's more like 205 people per job round here

honest answer... based on personal experience...   yeah, its a supervisory nightmare.

  Nooooooooooooooooo!    His current advisor needs to probe a little deeper into the motivations behind people doing things.

I know from your FB updates that your OH is really trying to make a go of the school work thing...  

  lol!  I loved it when I did it.   I may have been paid a pittance but I was actually at my happiest when I first joined the NHS... working on the frontline, oblivious to the politics & bullshit.

Anyone can be a medical lab assistant.  The pay is shit (payscale is something like £8k - £11), the work is busy, you are usually understaffed... the clinical staff are unable to do their work til you have done your bit...  

the upside is...  I loved the work, I loved the emergency cases...   and I have never laughed so much as I did when I worked with the lab staff.    

Other jobs in hospital pathology depts that you don't need qualifications for include laboratory support officers, and phlebotomists (though they do have to be trained before they are let loose bleeding patients).

When the kids are a bit older you should keep your eye on your local paper/local hospital website... staff turnover tends to be quite high (cos of the pay)...  and though there may be cutbacks... the bottom line is the workload ain't getting any smaller...  so support staff levels won't be able to be reduced.

wonder how this will go down with the EU cort of human rights? making people work for nothing? Since joining the eu we have let ourselves in for more benefits being paid to peoples families from other eu countries than ever before. the best solution would be to leave the eu and save shed loads of money and concentrate on the folk at home.

Ditty cheers for that most useful! though will have to ask you again when time is right lmao

atm i'm focusing on Stu bettering himself, dunno if you saw my recent status about him having an interview for a care worker job? working with adults with complex needs...he did an induction the other day and they think he will do well. only be part time to fit round his course but hey it's a job...once we know what we are bloody doing each day i will look to better myself lol. cannot decide what i want to do
i did animal care diploma so may carry on with that and do animal sciences degree
forensics!
or lab tech LOL

i might even take up dog grooming as a hobby or baking and open a little business...i've been looking at having some goals in my life cos i haven't had any for so long now x

I became a lab tech cos I had already done A level chem & biology (I did these really to get some time away from my daughter,,, I was a single mum and going stir crazy at home with her all the time...  the local college offered free creche places for students)... and I wanted to be a Healthcare Scientist (then called Biomedical Scientists)...

I got diverted though....  up the management lines...   and then got disillusioned.

I can't decide what I want to do when I go back to work either...    I don't think I could bare to see another farce of a company butcher the principles of management science...  

I TOO HAVE FANCIED DOG GROOMING!  

I ran a jewellery business with my mate for a couple of years.   I never asked to have a jewellery business..   it came from me mucking about with some beads...  then buying some silver findings...  and making stuff for my friends.  Word of mouth took off and before I knew it my friend & I had a partnership and were doing jewellery parties twice a week.

We got to a big decision point though...   either invest some money & get work premises....   or laugh it off.   A few things made me want out... not least being my business partner booking parties on BB finals night... 2 years running!!!

What I learned from it was...   I make good jewellery!  and...  though I am totally competent working in finance or corporate governance in big companies...  I am shit at managing myself.   And.. when you start to make a business out of a hobby you can kill any enjoyment it used to bring you!  



Good luck to Stu...   I admire his persistance and determination to get something stable sorted.

he tries, though being on JSA for so bloody long people dont see that...especially him :/ he's started to get anxiety attacks lately cos of the crap he gets, PLUS the big change by doing all these things PLUS his mate/my brother dying...all in a short space of time. he's on Betablocks atm he's not letting that stop him though lol.

thats why i dunno about the business, being in a private rented house i may not be able to anyway due to insurance (i've looked into it briefly) plus...i suck at baking the dog grooming thoughi'm keen on, did a little bit years ago and enjoyed it and was a natural apparently..course i've forgotton it now and need to do a course but they cost alot of money and the equipment too...

tory thinking: unemployed = workshy layabout, wealthy = victim of high tax, canute had a better chance of stopping the tide than a tory does of believing otherwise

i was labouring under the misconception that  we chose a government to manage our economy for us,like creating the right atmosphere  for business to create jobs and wealth.

silly me...

I don't know too much about the rules and regs of this.. but I do know my mate is a new deal advisor.    She has 'clients' that she finds placements for... and has a lot of success.  They have links with local businesses - most of her clients are people like recovered addicts, alcoholics, ex offenders and single mums suddenly left on their own and trying to get back into the workplace.    She has found lots of them permanent jobs and has a stack of thank you cards (and a couple of scary stalkers and one marriage proposal! ) from people she's helped back into work.    Then again, she's a real people person, ends up getting all their life stories, and works bloody hard at what she does.     I'm not defending the government btw.. just feel I need to show the other side of the coin.  Maybe it's a different scheme in Scotland, or maybe she just cares about she does, but I just had to point out there are actually successes come from it.

Yep, they'll never stop being the Nasty Party.

Yes there are a minority of folk who are out of work and are either not remotely interested in finding work or who are working on the side whilst claiming benefits, who seem to think that the rest of us should pay for their living costs and that ps me off, but how this scheme will help change that is completely beyond me
I'll reserve final judgement until we see the detail of the proposals, but as it stands I think it stinks, particularly as it appears to be promoting a message that everyone who is long-term unemployed is either a layabout or a benefit cheat and should be treated like a criminal, when in reality many are trying bloody hard to find work/access training or voluntary work experience etc. etc. and will do pretty much anything to get off benefits.
And this message goes out as we are about to experience hundreds of thousands more job losses, how can that make sense
If we can't look after our least fortunate, sick etc. etc. as a society then what the Hell does that say of us as a society, I know what it says: "I'm alright Jack"....and breathes!!!

my hubby was getting to that stage last year before he finally got this job.   Its hard innit...  watching them trying to keep going, keep positive, keep applying... whilst also watching their self esteem decrease day by day.   My Dad (who yeah, is a total wasak.. but every now & then would come out with something almost sensible) says that "good un's will get there eventually... it may take a lot longer than you hope, and at times feel like no-one notices... but they all get there in the end"

Dunno how true it is though Hoobs...   in my old job the good people tended to be the once who were exploited whilst the dodgy gits rose quickly up through the ranks to senior mgmt.

On the dog grooming training & stuff...  dunno if its still the case...  but if you were on benefits you used to be able to do courses with LearnDirect for free.    I was on working, but on Tax Credits, so I qualified.   I did loads of training with them.

They do do vocational stuff too.... you should see if they have anything on dog grooming.

it would help if some officials were human or even read what they were spouting - my s-i-l went to sign on and tell them that he was starting a new job (only unemployed 4weeks - lots of temp jobs here), when he told them, they then asked what had he been doing for the previous fortnight to find work as if he couldn't prove he had been looking he would lose benefit !! (all of £50 a week)

i looked Ditty and there is no dog grooming seems you have to pay full whack, i found a place that trains nearby will enquire with them about things

Hmmn,so they are mentioning gardening,litter cleaning,street sweeping etc.This is provided by local councils,the folk doing these jobs at the moment are the lowest paid public sector workers.The targets for the Tories and their Lib Dem symbiotes,  to lose their jobs due to cutbacks etc.So..they will be replaced by "scroungers"doing thework  for job seekers allowance.Then we  will have those that have been replaced by cheap labour maybe coming full circle doing their old jobs for a measly pittance etc... oh and not being allowed to live in so called middle class areas due to housing benefit cutbacks etc..bring on the gulags!

WE have yet to still have the hundreds of thousands getting axed by this lot yet.,five folk chasing one job at the moment..that will seem sweet in six months times.

Silly me 2.

'lo karms,x

i agree that the generational chain of workless familes needs to be addressed ,but  they are living in cuckooland if they think some half arsed,underfunded,reliant on the voluntary sector, are going to do the  business for them by handing out  a months forced labour in litter picking and wind chime tuning,they are bound  to be horribly diappointed...

nah, they're probably behind closed doors making plans to bring back the workhouses
BTW, long time no see JB, hope all good in your world

Indeedicus!

And ello lovey xxx