Tony Blair wasn't prime minister when she pegged it.

I don't quite understand where Tony Blair comes in, but I do think that the Social Services are inadequate. These people are pretty old to cope just for themselves, never mind a daughter who can't do anything for herself. Where is the support? Where is the help? Where is the money to make them cope?

But they NEVER are.

What it says in the full story is that:

“All these psychiatrists kept coming and all they did was assess her and went away. We never heard anything again ... We kept getting told there was no one to help her. I made official complaints chief's I even wrote to Tony Blair when he was Prime Minister. "

 So when Samantha was alive he was PM.  Does that answer your query?

BTW, the 'chief's typo is the Telegraph's, not mine.

If she pegged it last May and her illness lasted 20 years then that encompasses Thatch (just), Major, Blair and Brown.

These cases can be complex,the parents would not have been privvy to what was discussed between their daughter and her Doctors..even home vists etc.If she said to the  various health folk that visted her,not to discuss it with anyone,they would have to respect that.
It's very difficult to force someone into medical/psychiatric  care if they do not wish it.

But do Social Services not have a duty to get involved if they feel the situation is out of control without the need for permission? I know it's all adults in this case, but the people who were in charge of looking after the girl were unable to do so.

Karma their hands could have been tied,what do you think they could have done ?..forcibly removed her and force fed her,if she had stopped eating.That is illegal now (force feeding)
My uncle died last year aged 74..He had depression and stopped eating,he ended up in hospital loads of times,they put him on a drip etc,and discharged him after a few days.However he still wouldn't eat,he lived on  sherry,he was also diabetic,he was just giving up.Sad as it was,his choice in the end.

She would have fallen under the remit of the local Mental Health Team rather than social services I would have thought - and I can tell anyone here from bitter personal experience how utterly useless and lousy they are.
They would have put her to the very bottom of their list as she was no danger to anyone other than herself and had people caring for her.

This is very sad that nobody would help this family you would have thought between social services and the daughters doctor she would have been sectioned under the mental health act,the mother and father must be devasted being under suspicion of murdering their own daughter, I am not sure how the police could  possibily prove that they neglected her, they asked for help and they got none

Yeah, I agree with Marge & Veggie.   She should have been sectioned under the Mental Health Act..  as she was endangering her own life.   The social workers or the GP should have got that process in motion...   or, preferably, the GP or Social Workers should have referred her to Mental Health professionals before her condition became so bad that she was a danger to herself, before the need to have her sectioned.

Its terrible this and even an idiot could see the poor girl was ill....

http://www.inmytrends.com/poli...ling-germ-phobia.htm

Obviously the support services and the old bill need to up the grade of idiot they are employing Stonks

Someone who used to be an fm here is a manager employing support workers - and she used to say that the majority of support workers only do the job as they are too thick to work anywhere else.
We seem to have a policy in this country of pushing the most unsuitable people into 'care work'  presumably because the sectors of society that they are caring for are either unable or unwilling to complain about how poor they are. I complained about a support worker I was given and was told that if I was well enough to complain then I didn't need a support worker!!

Have some Veggie.  My sis was a 'Care manager' and her tales used to make me cringe.

Lol Tooth Fairy, I can't see that smiley so I'm wondering what you're giving me
It does make me mad though, how we just put people who are mostly unemployable in any other sector in charge of vulnerable adults and children.

They must if they thought all three of them could manage, 1 disabled, 1 with cancer and 1 clearly suffering not only mental health problems but also physical health problems....

It was one of these Veggie

It's damn shame and it's only going to get a worse under the Condems "Big Society" crap.Those agencies  etc that offer respite etc are  losing their budgets due to cuts in public spending  and staff being made redundant...there won't be anywhere for the "volunteers " to train etc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12378974

Basically if you're poor,vulnerable...then you're fecked.

This story as it is written above is incredibly sad however I think we need to be very careful about jumping to conclusions.
First of all social services are right not to comment as making a comment at this stage could jeopardise the whole situation.

Secondly the above story is very one sided when in reality there are two sides to every story.  I'm not saying the above story is in any way incorrect or made up but we should not jump to conclusions based on one view point.  None of us were part of this situation therefore none of us know what actually happened.  It is viable that the parents did reach breaking point and do something regrettable, the police have a duty to their daughter to investifate if this was the case.

Finally this woman was a grown woman maybe she didn't want help from social services, maybe she refused offers of help in which case due to her age her parents would have little say.  It is a devastating situation but I don't think we should judge unless we are in possession of full facts and I believe in cases like this the media are incredibly unhelpful publishing such a story.

This has been going on since last May.

If the parents had done 'something regrettable', surely the evidence would have been uncovered in the Post Mortem. What could they possibly be investigating still?

As I stated before it's difficult to force someone to get help etc.Even folk with serious psychiatric problems etc cannot be forced to take their meds..as in tie them down and inject or whatever.They do have rights,even if it's for their own good.This is  speculation and word of mouth on the parents part etc.This is now an ongoing case and medical documentation etc will now be scrutinised.So we really don't know until it has been investigated what the outcome will be.
However it's a tragic case all round.

Yeah but katty, surely Blizzie is right. They would have uncovered something by now if things were amiss. The post mortem has been done, clearly there was nowt in that or they would have charged the parents. It would not take long to sort through their financials to see if they had a big insurance policy for example on their daughter.
I really don't like how the police can keep people on bail for ages and ages without charging them. What the hell are the courts playing at to allow them to extend this for another four months. The Police should be hauled into court to explain what is going on imo

Yeah but katty, surely Blizzie is right. They would have uncovered something by now if things were amiss. The post mortem has been done, clearly there was nowt in that or they would have charged the parents. It would not take long to sort through their financials to see if they had a big insurance policy for example on their daughter.


Not necessarily - the article says she died from dehydration and bed sores - what's to say vital resources were not kept from her.  Like I say i'm not saying the parents have done anything wrong but there's always two sides to every story.

But how will they be able to prove that in 4 months time if they can't prove it now?
Good of the authorities to take an interest now the girl is dead. Shame on the lot of them for not stepping in sooner and offering some help to those poor parents.

But how will they be able to prove that in 4 months time if they can't prove it now?

We don't know what evidence they have at the moment.

Good of the authorities to take an interest now the girl is dead. Shame on the lot of them for not stepping in sooner and offering some help to those poor parents.
We don't know that they didn't step in sooner - the above story is purely from the pov of the parents - there is more than one side to this story.

Yeah veggie but the wheels of justice grind slowly.You often see cases coming to court (murder etc) that happened nearly a year ago.

Not always, and it's a good idea to assume innocence, until proven guilty.

The police should put up, or shut up

This is unbelievably tragic but we do not know the whole story.
Sadly partly due to the Mental Capacity Act of 2005 it is almost impossible to give a straight answer as to whether someone is capable of making decisions for themselves or not because it is such a diverse Act.

This should not be a blame exercise. Here we have 2 elderly people who clearly loved their daughter but were at the end of their tether and being parents could see what she was doing to herself.
However the daughter was obviously deemed to be mentally capable of making her own mind up - even though she was in a weakened condition.
What help could SS have given if she refused everything?
Rarely, if ever are people force fed now and how would that have helped?


We just do not know the whole story and sadly we will probably never know because of patient confidentiality etc.
What is clear however is that prosecuting two sick elderly people will achieve nothing.

What is clear however is that prosecuting two sick elderly people will achieve nothing.

Just imagine if the money spent on investigating the parents and investigating how well social services and other support professionals carried out their functions had actually been spent on helping the family when they she was alive.
If the support services don't have the powers to intervene (which I doubt) perhaps they should ask the government for them.

It's a legal right.  They are innocent until evidence to the contrary.

Just imagine if the money spent on investigating the parents and investigating how well social services and other support professionals carried out their functions had actually been spent on helping the family when they she was alive.
If the support services don't have the powers to intervene (which I doubt) perhaps they should ask the government for them.

But leaving that to one side do the police not have a duty to investigate her death - if a crime has been comitted doesn't she deserve justice?

Of course they do, and, if they have evidence of wrongdoing, then they should prosecute.

On the face of it, it appears to me that they have jumped to conclusions, without having any understanding of her condition, made quick arrests and left grieving, sick and elderly parents under suspicion for a year, with no possible chance of finding any evidence of wrongdoing.

A couple of points.

Sandwell Council were aware of the situation.  If they weren't they would have said so already.  The fact they were and then allowed the situation to reach the point where the daughter died indicates they did not protect her from herself by ensuring that she received the medical support she needed.  If they had visited the house they must have also been aware of the ages of the parents and their potential age-related infirmity even if they could not predict that the father would suffer from various cancers.
 
I suspect the truth is that the couple wanted to keep their daughter but needed some support which they did not get.  The daughter was reluctant to see support professionals but they had seen her in the past, of that I have no doubt.  Perhaps it suited the support staff to have her kept with her parents as it saved Social Services placing her into the full time care which she must have needed.  Her father has indicated he asked for help but no help came.  If that was untrue I am sure Sandwell Council would have said as much, but they did not.

The police certainly had a duty to ensure that no crime had taken place.  That said they have failed to apply common sense and also have allowed the matter to continue to the point where it is having a detrimental effect on the parents.  They have all the evidence they need and are going to get.  It appears that everyone is sure what she died of - probably dehydration and infections arising from pressure sores.  There is no murder weapon to be found.  There is no motive because if the parents had wanted her out of their lives they could have done it years ago. Much as the police would wish to have a 'serious crime' to solve to enhance their stats this is not going to be it and in reality their cavalier treatment of the parents will probably accelerate their demise.  Will there be another inquiry with lessons learned when they die, still under threat of prosecution for causing their daughter's death by neglect?

The only way we can be confident that justice is done is when it is seen to be done.  If that means bringing publicity where the professionals would not wish it to be then so be it.  It seems likely that all involved would be quite content to allow this to carry on drifting indefinitely.  If it takes a story in the press to concentrate their minds so that they can learn any valuable lessons and allow the parents to live the rest of the lives without the cloud of suspicion, then the press must be allowed to bring this to the attention of the public.

Then perhaps Linda Horton can explain what they would have liked to have done and what they would do differently next time.

I agree Blizzie. I don't think the police are covering themselves with glory after the event and the SS still have to explain how well they handled it which they are not going to do until the police get a grip

Is that you Sarah Millican? 

Well said, Geordie Lass. 

And I love Sarah Millican! 

Excellent post Geordie Lass

Hi Veggie x   Good post GL     Very sad case, and how many times do we hear , lessons will be learned ??