I'm fine, Rev.

Good to see you here, but good that you've got plenty of work too.

Mrs C prefers the term, "escaped catholic!"

I might steal that!

Its ok I've been looking for this new FM....

I can relate to you on this, but I've found that atheists tend to be more unacceptable to religious people than people of other religions, which I find odd, not to mention annoying.  After all, an atheist is someone who just believes in one god fewer than other people.

Apart from Hindus?

lol... you've spent the afternoon on the interweb looking for durty woman! 

oooohheeerrrr Mrs!

Aww, I love some of their stuff.

Its definitely frowned upon!

'Tis a shame!

I doubt it's one gene.  It'll be an environment of genes whose side effect, or perhaps primary effects if they have helped survival in the ancestral environment, is to make the gene carrier more inclined to religion, or superstition, or credibility, or perhaps less inclined to scepticism.

In Dawkins' new book (The Greatest Show On Earth), he talks about an experiment where someone took some foxes and deliberately bred them for tameness (ie. picked individuals which displayed more tameness than the rest to breed).   Over time, the descendent animals started to develop the physical characteristics of domestic dogs even though the breeder wasn't selecting for those.  Dawkins says it is possible, perhaps likely, that those physical traits are carried along with tameness and may be why dogs generally look like they do instead of looking like wolves.

The 'gay gene' is probably something similar.  That is, they (the set of them) have no primary evolutionary advantage given that they obviously don't encourage reproduction but they might be a side effect of various other advantages, like the inclination to tidiness, being a natty dresser, and generally nice. 

I don't believe in Dawkin either.

He was on TV last Sunday.  It's a miracle!! 

*** does the sign of the double helix ***

I did see something on the telly once about the existence of a more evolved gene.  i.e. some of us carry a gene that makes us part of a more advanced human being than those that don't carry it.

Totally agree with you Twee I will also say that organised religions are about controll ie. control of the masses especially women! I do believe that Jesus existed but have reason to believe that he was a spiritual man rather than religious.....and Mary Magdalane was an equal to the man named Jesus!
As a spiritual man if he was to see the rich trappings of today's churches he would be mortified! St Francis of Assi was a humble man, his church was little more than a hut but this big monumental church that I believe was built over it is nothing less than obscene!
The church as an institution is as you say  really obscenely powerful and filthy rich and biggest holder of land mass throughout this living earth.
Having said that there are obviously decent, loving and caring people who work within the church! It is the dogma,hypocracy ,greed,power and contoll by the religous body that I am against!

What drew me to a faith was the desire to suspend some logic and just accept certain things for no reason. I've spent most of my life looking at ideas and concepts about the world and analysis is great, but accepting miracles (for me) is liberating. God Bless Dawkin, though

Wonders if I dare mention Lourdes?

I can so relate to that!    

Thats gonna have me thinking for ages!  

 ditty. don't think too hard, you'll find yourself in a (Cartesian) circle.

All  living matter is a miracle Suz' the earth and all creatures within it.... it is only people that want to apply logic to everything..... most scientists work on theories though rather born about facts!I believe that sometimes they are looking through the wrong end of the telescope..... over the years some scientific theories will be proved wrong just as they always have done!Obviously some scientists do remarkable research but I am afraid some findings have been used for destructive rather than creative means eg splitting the atom led to..... well you know what!

I'm a muslim...would like to be more active in it but just not. At the moment.

hi Ditty


I tried to reply to your post last night re JWs but there was a problem with page two and it wouldn't let me post.  It seems to have righted itself today.  Page two seemed to be twice the width, with no reply button.


Like you said in your post about your MILs relgious beliefs, it is ok if they keep their beliefs to themselves.  Why the need to try and convert someone else?  You did make a really valid point though ditty.  I have lived in the same small town for 45 years and I have come to know a lot of people.  People I knew when they were younger (and when I also was younger) have become JWs over the years and I do meet them on my travels.  Because they are old old friends and acquaintances, I know them already to be really decent and kind people who have just changed their beliefs.  When I run into them I always stand and chat, but they never ever seem to mention their religion to me.  Maybe they know I am a lost cause because they knew me when I was a practising Catholic.  I don't know really.  But, likewise, if they came to my door with their Watchtowers, I still would not answer it .. old friends/acquaintances or not.  I respect their new-found beliefs but I don't want to discuss it with them.  Equally, I don't want them to know about my religious persuasion nowadays, or lack of it.

hi fig   I totally agree with you.  Why the need for all these riches and glittery artefacts on display in churches today?  A lot of them remain locked now anyway because of thieves, etc. But I am still overwhelmed when I see the interior of Westminster Abbey/St Paul's on television.  There are some beautiful cathedrals and churches throughout the land, but I wonder why all that stuff is necessary.  It is not an aide to praying, nor does it help the religious life.  It is just ostentatious show imo. 


If you look at a map of the world and pinpoint any part of it, you will find religious strife somewhere close-by.  And all the killing is done in the name of their chosen God.  That's the part of being un-christian and ungodly that I cannot come to terms with.

I think us old lapsed Catholics rebel the most,well so much to rebel against etc.I'm 53 I was actually told by one of my old primary schools teachers  when  I was about 6 that only Catholics will enter heaven,as it was the only one true faith etc.

I think Dave Allen even joked about it,A protestant died and went to heaven,he wandered around  and came to a huge high wall,he asked another soul what the wall  was for."Oh the Catholics are on the other side...ssssshhhh! they think they're the only ones up here".

hi katty.  That made me laugh.  Dave Allen was the first comedian to tackle the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church and us Catholics loved his irreverent approach to it, even though in his heyday I still believed in it all.  But Father Ted finished the job.  Like you, all the going to heaven stuff was drummed into my skull from an early age.  I believed it all until I was old enough to question the validity of the whole thing.  The Bible is a collection of morality tales written by some very learned men but we don't need to be told the difference between right and wrong in a book.  We should know instinctively and have our own moral compass.

I'm not religious but if it provides people with comfort and a sense of belonging then good for them.
I tell those who come to my door that IF the time comes when I want to find out more I'll come to them.

I agree cagney.  I respect the fact that a lot of people get comfort from religion but I maintain that it should be their private business.  It is when they start trying to convert you that it then causes problems for most people.  Rellgion should be a private business between the person and their God.

I like your 'don't ring me I'll ring you approach' cag

No offence to any of them but I treat them the same way I treat double glazing salesmen or any other cold caller. Thanks but no thanks. In fact I think it's quite rude to go round peoples houses.

I agree cag, it's an invasion of privacy.  I don't go around to their door spreading the word about anything so I don't want them at mine.

Yep,  exactly. Pretty much all world religions say the same thing, basically.  In the Bible the 10 Commandments are just basically the rules for a civilised society.   Since the Enlightenment (science/reason),  and the development of an effective police force and judicial system, we don't really need the heaven/hell sanction any more, and religion I think is just a comfort thing for those afraid of death.  Oh, and a fabulous money maker for its practitioners.  Gotta admit, I find the American evangelist dudes hilarious.

Not all religions are about controlling women, Judaism is a matriarchal religion,  and husbands have a duty to keep wives happy with sex and shoes and handbags and  that (according to my mate at work ),  oy vey I could go for a bit of  that.    And Xianity was a branch of Judaism before Paul got a hold of it and his version caught  on.   Jesus'  brother James  got pushed out of things pretty quick, because we  all know Jesus was born to a virgin don't we? That was  decided  in the 4th  century.  Good  old Augustine of Hippo, a Pauline Xian.

They always seem to bring thier young kids with them. Is that meant to sway me?

And what's with the Mormons sending bloody good looking 20something men to my door?

Dyed in the wool aetheist here. At a push I guess you could say I'm an aetheistic agnostic as I'll only concede there's a conscious all powerful being if there's enough scientific evidence, which there won't be. That kind of defeats the whole object of "faith" doesn't it?

I tend to the view that certain individuals don't have the inner strength to accept this is it and need to feel there's a spiritual mummy or daddy around to kiss everything better and ensure they're not all alone in the big, wide universe. 

I have no tolerance for organised religion. I was raised an Anglican - although in a fairly relaxed way - and I married a Catholic. What a load of screw ups THAT faith produces! When I divorced him after numerous affairs I was ostracised by his family for failing to stick to my vows. There are times when I itched to tell his sanctimonious mother that her precious son had paid for certain of his flings to have abortions but she'd fall apart. She lives in this fluffy pink world where god makes everything right as long as she prays, goes to church and eats fish on Friday.

The fact that the pope refuses to condone the use of condoms to counter the spread of Aids makes me unbelievably angry. 

The fact that the former leader of the free world believed in the creation myth as fact terrified me. 

In my experience a lot of "god fearing" people are hideously smug, superior and lacking any compassion, generosity and kindness of spirit. 

And no - I'm not afraid of being dead. Dying nastily scares the bejaysus (see what I did there? ) out of me - but the actual dead bit - nah.

They're by far the nicest....I had Donny Osmonds son at my door a couple of years ago.

I'll open the door to them...the rest can piss off!

brilliant

They freaked me out a bit Croc. All teeth and more teeth.

But they're not at all pushy....

The fact they feel it's ok to come to my door in the first place seems pushy to me

I agree with you that religion is a comfort blanket for people who want something in the afterlife.  Some cannot accept that there may be nothing at all after this life, so believing in God gives them hope.  I would never knock that fracas, I say we are all free to have faith in what we choose.  My aged aunt is a true Catholic, a thoroughly good woman and her religion has been her strength throughout her life.  She deserves that comfort because she has true faith.  I admire her greatly, yet I don't share her beliefs.  I would never admit to her my loss of faith because it is personal to me.  Like you, I love watching those beetroot-red-faced preachers in the USA banging the drum for true religion and then the camera cuts to the collection plate going round.  It's a money making machine and it applies to all religions.

Even though Jewish faith is passed down through the women, the men still control the important things .. the family money, etc.  She is 'allowed' money for handbags and shoes but it is at her husband's discretion, with the Rabbi making sure that the male side of things (money) are kept intact.  Nothing changes from religion to religion .. the man is considered more important.  They take precedence in most organised religion.

You know your Bible fracas.  I don't!  So I cannot answer your last paragraph. 

Yes...by a council vote, and not a unanimous one at that.. As if someone had applied for planning permission. 
It's amazing how many "gods" were born to virgins. And how anyone can take the christmas story literally when it's a plagiarised version of Mithras's birth story I really don't know.