sorry real - couldn't sleep  JW's  intrigue me though- see you soon

Baby P's stepfather has apparently just converted to JW, that's a very wise move is'nt it?

I can only talk from observing my husband and his brothers....  they feel that JW took their mother from them.... don't get me wrong, they blame her too...

but, she was converted whilst she was EXTREMELY vunerable (she had just lost a baby girl, my husbands sister, who died at a year old).... she had a crisis of (catholic) faith.... and became JW.

If it had just given her peace, then I don't think anyone would have minded.  But it the way it (in his words) "took mum even further from us", that is the problem.

Ditty Whatever gives us strength can't be bad.

The sympathetic part of me agrees....  

the part of me that thinks she had no right to desert her other kids in the name of a religion disagrees.

See Essix.... the jury is so far out for me on all of this!

I would LOVE to be convinced, one way or another... Love it!  But no one theory (even that of atheism) has enough consistency to do it.

Sorry, God killed my computer, as soon as he saw what I'd typed!

Anyway, no, not at all.I think we are part of the circle of life (I won't start singing). Death will just be the biggest sleep I ever managed and I will feed the worms.

In some ways it makes living a good life (in all senses) even more of an imperative. When we lose others, we will have memories and know that they no longer feel any pain. That is enough for me.

bloody lion king... it makes me burst into song at inappropriate moments too!  


I envy you the rest of it.   Its the kids... if I am honest thats my problem with dying.  Leaving them.  For selfish reasons, and for their sakes.  

I am yet to get to a stage where being kept alive in someones memories is enough of a comfort.

(thank you for replying Blizzie xxx)

Don't believe in god.  And in my opinion religion causes most conflicts in the world.  We would be better off without it.

LMAO!  I wouldn't have spotted this.. if it hadn't of confused me on my ticker!

This is the thing thats attributed to JW, my friends aunt lost 2 of her children in a car accident, she became JW, do the hospital's and undertakers tip JW's off, how do they know to call when someone is at their most vulnerable.She was too grief stricken to have approached them. I went to my dear friends mother's funeral a few weeks, she was 80, she was Russian Orthodox, my friends dad was Catholic as is my friend,. 15 years ago when Vera was 65 she chose to be a Catholic, her husband died in 1974 Vera's funeral was conducted by a 'Monsignor' no less, which is higher than your average Priest. Her faith was her life.

Oh, I'm so sorry!

Must be the hand of God again!

Atheist of sorts. I'd be quite content for deism to be true ie. for a creating something to kick our reality off without being interested in humans.  They're both the same to all intents and purposes.

The Alpha Course?  I thought about going out of interest.  I've heard bad reports of it although I suppose that might well be just for courses run locally.  By bad reports, I mean indoctrination and pressure 'selling'.

It's the very opposite for me.  I'm not scared about being dead (not too keen on the idea of the process though) and I'm content, actually quite happy, to think my dead family members are not in some possibly true but unknown reality which might or might not be good for them.

I have a slightly odd hypothesis that people fall into two broad camps on this because of a genetic predisposition.  Actually, I reckon there is a genetic predisposition to religious belief (of any type) too.  I mean that in a value-free way.

Absolutely.

Btw, I too was very religious (methodist) at one point, then I was agnostic and now I simply don't believe that there's anything more in the divine sense and I also believe that all religion itself is not a good thing, except maybe in the context that it's produced some nice buildings and some pretty pictures and some lovely music.

However, my best friend here is very religious and I take the view that if it makes her feel better to pray about things then she can do so and I won't stop her but it's about as much use, in my eyes, as reciting a poem!

You rang? Today I am working and I can be on call for prayers of intercession, Baptisms, quickie marriages, Mattins and Evening Prayers.

I don't believe in god and think that pretty much all religions are a con made up to keep the masses in order. There's no heaven, no hell, just worm food.

And you don't need to believe in anything to have morals

Kind of agree with ya there Croc....No God for me either!...or indeed a heaven!
Only thing that scares me bout dying is not seeing family grow up etc!

I would ask for a quickie, but I'm already married!

Long time, no see.

I'm sure I've heard that they've found a 'religious gene'.
It may have been on that programme about twins.

I don't have the religious gene, then.
When I was about 8, I scandalised my junior school class by saying I didn't believe in God. Never have, probably never will.
I'm quite comforted by the belief that when I die, there won't be either a beardy bloke waiting upstairs, or some git with a pitchfork.
I'll just compost down nicely, in my wicker coffin, under a tree somewhere.

I'm a lapsed Catholic. Flirted with the idea in my mid-teens but could never really swallow the whole transubstantiation thing. That said, I do say the rosary every day. My grandmother who died recently said it every day and it's more of a homage to her than anything metaphysical..plus it helps standing in the check-out que fairly whizz along.

I think there is evidence that meditation and chanting are actually pretty good for your health (mental and physical). One of the reasons 'religious people live longer, on average, than the non religious.

I'm not religious, but I'm not really a textbook atheist either. I like to believe there is some kind of higher power out there in the universe, but not in the classic god sense...

My girlfriend is a catholic, if we get married I may have to convert. I'm planning to take them down from the inside... 

You shouldn't need to convert.
I married a non catholic, in a catholic church.

You may have to promise to have any offspring baptized catholic but I can't see you having to convert.

Kinda with you there - don't know about a 'power' as such, but I've been forced to believe that it doesn't all end when our body does.    I was sceptical, but I've had personal experiences that I find completely unexplainable other than by knowing that somehow this information was coming via my mother.    I know people will scoff, and that's fine - it's one of those things you believe, or you don't and no amount of discussion will change a view, only experiencing it will do that. 

Other than that I agree with whoever said you don't have to believe in anything to have morals.

My father is Jewish and my mother is a Presbyterian. They were never too fussed about what faith we took on. One of my brothers converted to Judaism (as the faith passes through the mother's side) and I got babtized in to the C of E in my late 20s.
I find a comfort in all the rituals, but think everyone is equal before God (whether they acknowledge him/her or not).

oooh!  So.. this gene... is it dominant or recessive?   I suppose if this were true, I don't have the religion gene...  I think if I did I would have signed up to something by now.  

I do remember doing evolution in A level H.Biology, and rather than it confirming a lack of 'something else' it made me think something else must have been involved.  I can't remember the details now,but it was when we were doing the beginnings of life on earth... the primordial soup thing.   Things happened way way quicker than it scientifically should have.

My soup making can rapidly change into something pretty evil looking.

I can end up with croutons, without putting any in.

  

I sometimes lean towards pantheism.  Please don't ask me to define it.

You worship Bagheera?

He wasn't in the Lion King, was he?

I had to google it!

Pantheism (Greek: πάν (an">pan) = all and θεός (theos) = God, literally "God is all" -ism) is the view that everything is part of an all-encompassing immanent God. In pantheism, the Universe (Nature) and God are considered equivalent and synonymous. More detailed definitions tend to emphasize the idea that God is better understood as an abstract principle representing natural law, existence, and theUniverse (the sum total of all that was, is and shall be), rather than as an anthropomorphic entity. With some exceptions, pantheism is non-theistic, but it is not atheistic.^[1]


And have to say... yeah, I could buy into that one (based on that one paragraph... I am sure I would find a stumbling block if I delved deeper).  

I do like the last sentence.

I don't think there are any catches, Ditty.

ooooh, oooooh, oooooh,   don't tell me I have actually found a word I can put in the 'religion' boxes on forms!!!

I have been putting 'Jedi' just cos I hate putting atheist!

I always put Catholic Atheist.

I'm convinced that religions stem from our evolving a larger brain and trying to find reasons for natural occurrences, like thunder and lightening.

I have always thought that structured religion came about as a way of civilising an uncivilised world... in a world before communication was easy.  Like a baseline for what is and what isn't acceptable.

I was Christened but was never sent to church. I can clearly remember being the only child in my class who didn't go to church, and the gasps of shock when I admitted that I didn't go to SUnday school when I was 7 or 8.   

I have been an atheist since my early teens, but try very hard to respect other people's religious beliefs.  I would never question someone when they say that they know God exists; similarly I expect them not to question me when I say that I know there is no god.  I have always tried not to be hypocritical about my beliefs, and did not get married in a church, and did not have Growly Jnr Christened.

Hi Blizzie

I have been doing a lot of work, lots of long haul. Delivering stuff for exhibitions and sales all over. Lots of driving on the Continent. Things needed to be set up. Am a bit shattered to tell you the truth. How's you?