In committing your little girl to be baptised doesn't mean that you're signing her up for life. When people say ........i'll let them make their own minds up later - fair enough but being baptised isn't a legal and binding contract.

I think it's good that kids have some sort of moral code to follow (I know as parents we try to instil it) but church/Sunday School is no bad thing IMO. I'm talking CofE here ............................i know kids/adults bought up Catholic have a different take on it but ..............IMO - there really isn't anything sinister or bad in CofE teachings .................and kids aren't forced to attend church nor made to feel bad if they dont.

hi ditty and justa

It's the constant ramming it down our throats that makes it worse.  When I was a practising Catholic, my religion was private to me.  When the knock comes on the door (JWs) I don't answer because I don't want to have to explain that they are intruding on my privacy when they ask me my religion.  Or lack of it.

Thats why I tried to do just that Soozy, when I had my daughter.  It was the CofE vicar that couldn't welcome & introduce her to the church without holding her accountable for the (perceived) sins of her mother (me, unmarried)

agree twee, its a regular thing here as well they are always at the door. i dont answer it anymore.

Hello Twee...

My mother in law is a right pain in the....    some of the stuff she says!  Honest, you just wouldn't beleive it (especially as at the time of her conversion she already had her three sons in a Benedictine Boarding School run by monks, and when they would come home for the holidays she would just rip their religion, the one she instilled in them, apart!)

But, the JW's that knock at the door.   I have to say, I often feel its a shame they are punting Jehovaism (or whatever the word is)... cos some of them are really really lovely people (or maybe thats their doorstep strategy).  Its hard to judge accurately of course,  they are trying to assimilate me after all.... but they tend to leave me with a smile on my face.   So, for that, I won't condemn them all.

I know where your coming from .......we wanted ours baptised but didn't go to church ................I kind of see the reasoning behind it but was like you mortified that we'd been rejected! My husband started to go to church and got quite into it but they still wanted me to go .........just for a couple of weeks. I went - they were baptised. after that we became regulars but have been very much lapsed for the past fifteen years.

We have a husband and wife JW's visit us each month. They are lovely people and we talk about many things apart from their religion but inevitably it always 'comes up'. Although they have stopped trying to convert me and my OH, they still want us to have an 'alternative' view on life.

I was already feeling vunerable.   22 and a single mum.  No-one had made me feel more like scum than that vicar did.

My step sis is a JW, she drove me nuts, getting the bible out with the   highlighted passages...what doesn't she  get about  I don't and won't ever want this so please just be my sis    I don't have much to do with her any more

Both my parents were Irish Catholics therefore by default I'm a Roman Catholic, I went to a mixed Catholic primary school and a all girls Ursuline Convent secondary School, I've received all my sacraments, Baptism, Holy Communion, Confirmation, ( Didn't need the entering holy orders one) I got married in a Catholic Church ( on the side of the alter not the centre as you would if you were both Catholics) to a plastic Atheist so I've been told. I've been informed by apparent dedicated Atheist's that my husband was a hypocrite for getting married in a Church. His point of view was that to argue a point about whether there is a God or not defeats the object of believing in nothing, therefore nothing to argue about. Also as a builder he is interested in any type of Architecture whether it be a Church, Semi or block of flats.

 

My first Son was Baptized Catholic without Godparents, I went to book a big  Sunday Christening at the Church where I got married, the priest said I'll do him now, Result saved a fortune. 2nd son had a life threatening operation for a tumour when he was 10 weeks old, our hospital in Romford totally ballsed up the fact that I had been taking up to them for 6 solid weeks because I knew something was wrong, He was Rushed to Queen Elizabeth in Hackney where they arranged for a priest to attend and baptize him 5 minutes before his operation, which was a success. I never sent my children to Catholic school, I don't go to church except for Baptisms, Weddings and Funerals. I believe in God, but I don't need to go to church to basically hear diffirent versions of the same story over and over again when I ‘d had it drummed in to me throughout school. I've told my husband to make sure if he outlives me that I get Extremeunction on my deathbed which is my last Sacrament to complete the set. I've also told my husband me and my boys are going to Heaven and unfortunately he will be floating in Limbo.

Bet you wished you'd never asked me.

My stepmonster divorced a psychopath who tried to kill her, and beat up her kids.  When she married my dad, the marvellous catholic church excommunicated her.  She later found out her ex husband had died before she married my dad, but she wouldn't go back to the church to get ermm..reinstated or whatever because my dad  was divorced in the 60s and 'Jebus would know'.   Christ  almighty.

Yep!  Has alienated my mother in law from her kids big time!

I'm RC (parents choice) but I was never forced to eat the Bible and didn't take communion. My son is RC too (mine and his dad's choice as we are both RC), and although he hasn't taken communion he has shown interest in the religion.
Why did I christen him RC? To be perfectly honest I don't know as I am not overly religious (but do beleve in God), I think it's something deep inside my psyche that because both parents/families are RC, I felt it was the 'right' thing to do (so I suppose some of it must have sunk in somewhere along the line)

As an afterthought while I didn't want to raise my boy to be totally God-fearing, I wanted him to have a conscience about right from wrong. NOT saying in any way that those who haven't been christened a particular faith have no conscience, but it just felt right to me due to the way I'd been raised, that to have a fear of doing right from wrong would be seen by God kinda thing.

Oh gawd I'm in a right tangle here

Those words, are what Ickles paternal grandmother used to shout at me.   Your daughter will be damned into limbo!

My husband is catholic, he went to a monastic benedictine boarding school (which later merged with an ursuline convent school)...  he says just cos you go to limbo doesn't mean you don't go to heaven.  Limbo is a 'waiting room', when Jesus died he was dead & buried for three days before he was resurrected.... he spent those three days in limbo (cos time means nothing there).  Limbo is to give an opportunity for those who died before Jesus was born to accept his path, otherwise you are automatically condemning everyone born before Jesus to hell, or limbo. 

For those unbaptised born after JEsus that go to limbo.... the same applies...  

One of the monks that taught my husband told him this.... but finished it all off with... "what kind of god would condemn unbaptised babies to eternal limbo or hell"

And its these kind of arguments that sign me right out of religion.

Where is the love?

Well my husband thinks Limbo is a dance & couldn't care less. Except the difficult Sod wants to be buried, well tough luck, I'm having him carbonised into a diamond.

*nods enthusiastically*

I have seen these... blue ones!

I have asked my mum how she'd feel if I had her and my dad made into diamonds... pair of diamond stud earrings!

Oh!  I wish I hadn't told hubby about this thread.

He is still going on about it all to me!

i dont really have a religion, i do believe in an afterlife though (due to experiences). i have no problem with people having a religion but i do believe people can go TOO far. alot of war is because of a conflict in belief for example.

did anyone read an article today about a couple who let their teen daughter die because instead of taking her to a doctor when she was ill, they prayed for her to get better. she had undiagnosed diabetes which could have been soo soo treatable if their 'faith' hadn't of got in the way...and they STILL believe god will help them, in fact their faith is stronger now

i cannot get my head around that

I shall of course confuse the issue even more. God created the world in 6 days

Day 1) light [day];
(2) the firmament, which was believed to separate the waters of the heavens from the lower waters;
(3) By gathering the lower waters in one place the land appeared. Grasses and trees were created;
(4) sun; moon and stars - the lights in the firmament;
(5) fish, land creatures and fowl;
(6) man, both male and female.

Arguement being that the sun and moon were not created until day 4, you need the sun and moon to determine the length of a day & night, therefore
days 1,2 & 3 could have been millions of year days, there was nothing to determine the time

Ahhh.... see Essix... hubby has just been droning on saying that the old testament stuff was very fire & brimstone.... god was a punishing god, cos in those times that was what was required.

however, the new testament was an updated version, a kind & loving god, updated to fit in with the times!



Bizarre how Mr D & I manage to coexist really.   Given his deep rooted programming... and my (lol) clear independent thinking on these matters!

I am sure he had a watch

And what day did he create the cloud he was sitting on whilst doing all this creating, I see no mention of it.

What is wrong with me? I'm a believer, I'm shooting down my own argument. at self.

I'm a born again Atheist.

Brought up RC, quite strictly i.e. church every Sunday, prays before bed and some meals, but quite happily. Catholic primary school and secondary school, until I went to the Grammar school at 13.

Always disagreed with a lot of the dogma, but happy to believe in a nice God, not the murderous Old Testament one. Jesus seemed like a top chap, all in all.

Met some lovely nuns and priests, and some awful ones - which confirmed my view that they were just the same as the rest of us.

Finally saw the light, when I was heading for thirty and already had two kids in catholic school. Can't tell my parents, as it would 'kill' them, but I've never regretted losing my faith.

I now worship Richard Dawkins.

LOL!

Aw come on Essix.... the one way to shake your own faith has to be to read too deeply into the early stuff!

And...  

wasn't a cloud.  

Was a space ship!  


*runs*

I reckon God discovered weed, around the time of Jebus' birth.

I was never brought up with religion, so can't add anything here really, only that the past seems to be repeating itself regarding Religion and wars.

I have thought of you blizzie.... during this thread....

I ask this as someone who has never had this devout deep routed faith, that seems to be common amongst catholics...

doesn't it all feel.....empty?   And death.... doesn't that seem scary?   Edit to clarify: now you no longer have your faith?

Is the only reason I would like to have a faith.... to overcome the fear of death thing.

Death is inevitable whatever the faith. No-one should be afraid of it- Just live life the best you can whilst you are here, and remember- be nice to everyone- coz there is nothing worse than losing someone who you were nasty to and feeling guilty after.

Ditty I don't fear death, I fear pain. Life no matter how short or long should be celebrated. I want my funeral to be a circus event, with clowns and everything.

Tell you what arwen, as first threads go, this is a classic!  

But as a dyed-in-the-wool atheist, I can't really contribute. I do, however, also admire people who have a faith.

I cling to a hope of a belief that our conciousness continues somehow.

Otherwise... yeah, I fear it!   Even worse, contemplating never again seeing people I love who have died.

I have a constant internal war going on.... my logical scientific mind (where if there is a continuation, its energy, not consciousness).... and my hopeful, cowardly mind (where everything that is that person continues.. somewhere) 

Its got easier with age... but, at times it can be crippling.   Is why I sometimes envy those with faith.l

Religion in context is OK, but as I explained to my dear Muslim friend Hasina,she can drink alcohol in the form of spirits and Bicardi Breezers if she wants, the Koran cannot ban something that hadn't been invented, wine is a possible no no. She drives a car and owns a mobile phone.

Is that not just putting a spin on it?

The reason behind the no wine thing, was a no alcohol thing....

JW are great

If everyone would just enjoy life ( as short as it is) without all the negations of the past, life would be better for everyone.

O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed." (Al Ma'idah 90).

"There shall be no sin unto those who believe and do good works for what they may have consumed. So be mindful of your duty and do good works; and again: be mindful of your duty, and believe; and once again: be mindful of your duty, and do right. Allah loveth the good." (Al Ma' idah 93).

"They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great harm and utility for men; but the harm of them is greater than their usefulness." (Al-Baqarah 219).

Did that include tea & coffee.

Thought you had gone to bed. Got up to stir have you???

sorry - should expand - We knew  a few years ago somebody who worked on the railways - lovely peeps but became a JW - seems so weir d them coming to our door trying to convert us when we knew them as drinking peeps - so I agree - weird religion - lovely peeps

  Get this down yer neck and shurrup