No means no... 

(unless you are that eejit from the Vicar of Dibley)

That ^^^ is in response to the getting into bed with peeps bit.

See I agree with you Olly but i kinda see where people are coming from when they say a woman who gets into bed with someone that ends in rape should take some responsibility. But then as you say, no means no it's a tough one.

Hmmm. Well in the circumstances where a woman (or man) has given no sexual indication whatsoever and is raped, then obviously there's no question.

In the case of a someone 'leading another' on by going back to their house, or promising sex and then saying no, to me it's still no question. No means no. Any sexual situation that is forced or where both parties are not 100% consensual is rape IMO.

However, I know a couple of guys who have been falsely accused of rape in the past, where the women have consented, and 'to get their own back' after an argument, have cried rape. This makes my blood boil and anyone who does that and it's proven so should face harsh consequences.

There's the other argument of a woman 'dressing' in a certain way or walking in dangerous places at night. My opinion on that is anybody is free to dress how they wish, but to use common sense, get a registered taxi or make sure transport is pre-arranged before a night out. Knowing how and when rapists traditionally strike, why put yourself in a potentially vulnerable situation in the first place?

I saw that on the news this morning, shocking

what Karma said

"When asked about their own experiences, more than a third of those polled said they had been in a situation where they could have been made to have sex against their will."

You think they'd have a bit more empathy then What people seem to forget when answering these surveys, is that the majority of rapes are committed by someone the woman knows and trusts - in a lot of cases, her partner... not the stranger down an ally type scenario

Yep.

And ello again Sazza and ladies xx

And going off on a slight tangent, Jen since you told me about the baby I am proper broody

Ello Karma x

I was surprised reading that article that women were more likely to blame the victim than men... you think they'd have a bit more understanding/empathy

this latest study suggests attitudes may have hardened.

And the findings may help explain why juries are reluctant to convict in some rape trials.

 

Is it any wonder why alot of rapes go unreported?

I got my 1st scan on Wednesday, i'm so excited... but also scared! I'm nearly 15 weeks!

Yes, it looks like men know that they have more control over their urges than women think they do!

Thats exactly what i thought when reading it.

I suppose it's cos like you said, that people conjure up this image of a provocatively dressed woman walking in poorly lit areas in the early hours of the morning. But also like you said, alot, if not most of the time, it doesn't happen that way.

15 weeks already Oh you will see a fully formed little person! Why am I so friggin broody? Is it that clock ticking thing that I've read about once you get to mid-thirties? It doesn't help that my son is forever banging on about a baby brother or sister either.

I'm off for a kip and will hopefully wake up with my head screwed firmly back in place.

Catch you later all xxx

Laterz Karma

Aye true... maybe people like to think that because they don't go out dressed provocatively, or walk down poorly lit streets at 1am, or get in unlicensed cab then it wont happen to them... that they are making sure they wont be victims, so why can't everyone else... a holier than thou attitude? When in reality of course, its just as likely to happen to any one of us...

I'm shocked but, have to say, not at all surprised. Trying to get my head around the word 'responsibility'  as used in the article, seems the implication is that 'they asked for it?' Is this the same 'responsibilty' for victims of child sexual abuse 'cos they 'went along' with it? The same responsibility for victims of physical abuse/ domestic abuse  'cos it wouldn't have happened if they'd 'behaved themselves' etc. etc. Chillingly, I think it is

I found that very very disturbing.

It's like we still haven't moved on from Biblical times!

http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm

Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

Those who 'cry rape' do most women a great disservice, making others reluctant to report such incidents to the police.
I find that article disturbing....but, wonder how the questions were worded in the first place. As we all know, polls can be manipulated according to the answers the originiators want to receive

How bizarre...I wonder what the demographic of those women questioned was? To me no is no is no...even if you climb into bed with someone. If you do you are either very, very silly or naive but that in no way makes you responsible for the act of rape.

I'm not totally surprised btw.... in my experience women of a certain type can be far harsher than a  lot of men. We forgive ourselves less easily for "weakness". As a poor example a lot of women "bosses" are generally far harsher towards other women than a male boss would be.

spot on karms.........agree with everything you've said there

I'm always annoyed by the suggestion that victims of rape should take 'some of the blame'; a victim is a victim. No-one ever suggests that shopkeepers should take some of the blame for shoplifting (for example).

About a year ago, I was taking part in a SDSA workshop, and some of the exercises dealt with rape & sexual assault. It was very scary (in fact, I admit that during one of the 'roleplaying' exercises, I. along with two other women, got  so scared I actually peed myself).
At one point, the instructor told us that 1 woman in 5 had experienced, or would experience, a serious sexual assault; he pointed out that meant at least two of the women in that room would be, or already were, victims.
I decided to check that, so I went home and did some research about rape; I found some statistics and myths that shocked me.

For instance;

• Rape is a spontaneous act; Almost 80% of rapes are pre-planned. The rapist goes out with the clear intention of committing rape, and has given though to how he will go about it.
•  A lot of women make false claims of rape; Only about 2% of reported rapes are proven to be false.
• Rape usually occurs between strangers, outside the home; over 70% of rape victims know their attackers well, and the attack happens in their own, or the attacker's, home.
• Rape is an act of spontaneous sexual passion; it's a premeditated act of violence (see above). 60% of rapists are married, or in a long-term relationship, and have regular sex lives.
• You can prevent rape simply be refusing/keeping your legs together/fighting back; 74% of rapes involve physical force and/or restraint. Almost 20% of rapists threaten their victim with a weapon.
• If you don't fight back, it's not really rape; See above. Rape is a life-threatening attack; whatever you have to do to survive, you do.

And the one that comes up most often; Some women ask for it, by the way they dress/the places they go/the way they behave; in fact, most rapists actively look for someone who appears vulnerable or is at a disadvantage, regardless of how they're dressed or where they are.

I discussed these findings with a Police officer friend of mine, and she added some more interesting figures; "the rule of 5" which is that only 1/5 of all rapes are reported to the Police, and only 1/5 of those actually result in a conviction.
If my arithmetic is right, that means that only 4 out of every 100 rapists are ever convicted.

Food for thought...

Ooops, sorry ...that was a lot longer than I expected it to be...

I remember Sassy talking about this (I think she used to work with victims) and said it was nothing to do with sex at all... I remember the phrase she used to illustrate this was "you wouldn't bash someone over the head with a rolling pin and call it cooking"

*One-third blamed victims who had dressed provocatively or gone back to the attacker's house for a drink.*

Bulls**t!!! .... imo, if someone says no,  and after that they are taken, then it's rape!! .... no two ways about it.

I would say that if you put yourself in a position where rape or unwanted sex could happen then you are a fool
It is like standing in the middle of a Motorway and saying It is my road as well and I can stand here if I want to but shouldnt be surprised if they get hit by a fast car

Dressing in an enticing way and going back to someones apartment is giving the green light and the word No is useless
Be realisistic ladies

So, a Burka and stay indoors, Puddychops?

  But I agree with you...... no should mean no!

Oh, and could you define 'enticing' and explain the difference between 'rape' and 'unwanted sex'?

or what if you are in bed (in PJs) with your bf and he decides he wants sex, but you dont and he forces you... I mean, you willingly got into bed with him?

sorry, that vaguely follwed on from Blizzie's post about Burkhas

Especially 'enticing' pyjamas!

What about a football supporter going out in his/her team's shirt?

I suppose they are asking to be beaten up by rival supporters! 

Try a thesaurusThre is more than one word to describe the same thingwhen I see young girls staggering down the street vomiting all over the place and half dressed I say they are asking for trouble
It is your responsibility to take care of yourself and not put yourself in a position where it could happen
Having said that My Mother would tell you that most children born in her day were the result of marital rape
Conjugal rights and all that
However anybody who thinks "No means No" lives in a dreamworld

some provocative flanelette number