I asked the question which, if you read my splurge properly, was if you were a teacher? - I didn't say you were one  and  my reason for asking was to highlight the fact that you have absolutely no idea about what a teacher does or doesn't do because you aren't nor ever have been one.   Again you've totally ignored the facts that teachers do not have a 13 week break because if we are not physically in school, we are working from home.  Is that really so difficult to understand?  Just because the children aren't at school doesn't mean the teachers aren't in attendance  - again I stress that this wouldn't be all day every day, but most days and always full days.  I don't think I can put that any simpler!  The time we do get off during the summer holidays is time in lieu for the extra hours put in through out the year. It just happens to be in a block of 6 weeks.  Remember the 13 weeks also comprises Easter breaks, Christmas breaks like an 'average worker' to which legally anyone is entitled to, as well as half term.  

 

I do however take your point that there are plenty of jobs that aren't 9-5 but this usually happens with professions such as Lawyers or in medical doctors or vets  - these disciplines are considerably compensated by way of high earning salaries once qualified for that.

 

I really don't think the so called 'holidays' are 'lush' and by saying so you are belittling the job of a teacher. 

 

We're never gonna agree on this Temps 

 

Not going to continue with this when you're cracking on with the condescending tone Pengy.  It's a shame we couldn't have a genuine discussion about it, but take it personally as you will, that's really not my agenda, or my fault.

 

You said yourself you're not working the full 13 weeks you're not in the classroom, so I don't see how you can still contend your holidays aren't better than others.

 

So I'll leave it there

It's interesting that HMG and their pals in the press have set the agenda to centre on teachers. I suspect that they will now make out that teaching is a piece of piss, that teachers earn a fortune, and that they get long holidays. Most teachers I know, beset by politician and and bureaucracy pray daily for a lottery win.

My brother gave up teaching cos of the stress and extra hours he had to put in. My teacher neighbour goes out at 7.30 am and she's not back yet.

teachers im shattered after one day with lil gyps friends (2 at most) are round me. imagine having that day in, day out with 30 odd of them no thank you! they deserve a medal.

 

now bin men ive not had my bins collected for at least a month there is two full normal rubbish weely bins full outside and at least 10 bin bags. how the hell they are going to clear this if/when they get back to work is beyond me.

 

we have a dreadful rat problem in southampton, so much so that in the heat of summer you can smell them rotting from poison etc in the city centre. We are going to be eaten by giant rats

Ah well I'm sorry you feel like that    my tone wasn't meant to be condescending but you were exasperating me by talking on a subject that you have no knowledge of.  I'm sorry but attending school for a few years as a student and dropping and collecting kids up from school is not experience.   I thought I was trying to discuss it but obviously I was wrong, but then if someone has a fixed idea it is difficult to change their minds so on the face of it, I thought my answers were quite restrained   I can understand If you choose to enter a discussion about a subject that you know nothing about and someone who does puts you right it might be upsetting, but then I personally would never dare do that!

 

You're right perhaps we'd better leave it at that 

I'd say you are nowhere near on the fence going by your blurb for the choices of for or against..  your against is much more vehement than your for option

Wow! I've really lost respect for some people over this thread. I must say, I'm very shocked at some of the views expressed.

 

are teachers not allowed at least 4 weeks hols over and above official Bank holidays??  most workers get roughly 4 weeks holidays don't they? So if they don't go in a few days here and there when the Students are on holiday is that so bad?

 

I don't know any teacher that doesn't work way above the hours people who know no better subscribe to them,  plus they also work thru pupil holidays as well.. it is very unfair to make assumptions that they have so much free time..I've seen the paperwork. .it is mega and always increasing with every Governments decree, this and also former ones.. a report needed here reports there . .sudden curriculum changes here and on and on. .think it's the same for Nurses and others in public sector jobs..

 

I read the posts explaining all this and couldn't see any note of condescension just a passionate description of the working practice for teachers .. I used to work in banking yrs ago. .our doors to the public shut at 3.30 back then. .I  wouldn't leave til gone 6-7pm most days and on others it could be a lot later.. my working days including door to door were average 13-14 hrs..  it aint always what it says on the tin

 

and FWIW I think to ask anybody to work for longer, to contribute more than they are already and then the end result will be less than it would have been previously is out of order.. I presume the Governments past and present have been using all them past contributions [which should have been protected]  to pay for other stuff non pension related things    

 

Technically yes Olly but in theory a lot of teachers will work at home on something teaching related and chances are they will bring work on holidays - I know I always did   This extra time is in lieu of the hours you put in extra which is why it's allowed.  

 

I probably didn't make my point properly on this because it's a subject that for years I've constantly had to explain only for people to ignore what I've said and stick to their idea that all teachers have excessive holidays 

 

It was not my intention to be rude or confrontational to Temps and I'm sorry if she saw it that way  

Fourteen years ago at the age of forty I did a PGCE for lower primary .....................ashamed to say that at the end of the training I never went on to teach. It does look a cushy number from the outside but it really is not at all. I went into a job 9-5.30 and came home at the end of the day job done - work left behind - sorted (and it was more than I could have earned teaching).

My teacher neighbour has just got home...so that's 7.30 - 6pm today minus the 20 minutes or so it takes her to drive there and back...

Hope George Osbourne and the the Governor of the Bank Of England enjoyed their day at Wimbledon,whilst the rest of the country suffer the consequences of their policies.They certainly didnt look in any way concerned about the Indusrial action.Not a care in the world.

awww Pengy

 

I think my post came over wrong. . [edit: or I read your reply wrong as my brain has fallen out my lugholes] I was being sarcastic to Temps who frankly I felt was being very unfair to you and the other teachers in this thread who in no way had been condescending. .. . and was extremely surprised at that too..

 

my reply was saying did she expect teachers to take no holidays at all apart from bank holidays.. and I asked that if in the 13 weeks that the Pupils were on holiday, and in which you went in most days anyway or worked at home, would it not be ok for Teachers to not go in or work at home for a total of 4 weeks thru the yr i.e. thereby getting similar Hols that other working people get for a work yr, except yours are at prescibed times of the yr as per the Pupils Break from School. .and that's not allowing for extra time you should get for over and above time done in term time too.. ..

 

bet that is still not clear. .my head knows what I want to say but my fingers don't seem to..

 

and don't be sad Pengy I think you have been made to feel bad for absolutely no reason whatsoever. .except for what I can only consider is plain ignorance of what a teachers job entails and then an uncalled for attack cos the ignorance was shown for what it was.. .. am still shocked at the response you got tbh..

that's outrageous. .what's she doing home so early?  

 

 

Kidding

I knew you weren't having a go at me Olly 

 

 

best let the matter drop here or we'll all be upset 

I'm not upset Pengy. .. . and don't you be either

 

ps I edited my post a bit to try and make it clearer.. not sure I succeeded

 

I just get annoyed when people make assumptions based on not enough knowledge.. then when caught out go on the attack as if it's not their fault.. and yeah I am purposely being rude cos I think you were treated bad and accused of something unfairly..

 

I am not a teacher but was thinking of going that route, albeit it in Higher Education, at one point a good few yrs ago now and I went in to get a feel for things in a Local school for a yr and saw with my own eyes just how hard and stressful a job it was..  

I'm off sick and have been for a few years - the stress of teaching contributed to it and my GP won't sign me as fit to work in that field again   I love teaching I really do but it's the red tape and crap that goes with it that spoils it 

awww that is such a shame pengy. .

 

the teacher I used to help out also suffered form stress and I would often get phone calls with her in tears wondering how she could meet all the targets thrown at her plus teach her class as well ..and believe me they weren't easy, they were nearly all 'orrid little tikes with the sort of mums that patted them on the head as they laid into kids around them and threatened to deck the teachers if they so much as criticised their little 'darlings'. .it was a rough area.. :dissap:  ..

 

suffice to say as I suffer from anxiety related stuff, and that was the reason I'd had to give my previous career up, so Teaching in mainstream school was not the way I could go after seeing how much stress it caused . . am now agoraphobic as a result fo the anxiety stuff too so that makes it a tad harder to do that as well now

 

but like you I loved the experience of teaching and really enjoyed working with those less able, young and old ones alike.. . .so I understand why you miss it now..

I'm not going to get tooooo involved in this convo as it's a topic that get my blood boiling just a tad too easily But I'd just like to say I agree with Pengy.

 

I have to be totally frank and say, if it wasn't for the holidays there is no way in hell I would do the job I do! I physically couldn't! You work SO hard and such LONG hours, and under so much stress,  during term time, that no one (who does the job properly) could keep that up all year round. I work at least 9 - 5 in school. I work practically every evening, and it's a rare weekend that I don't do a number of hours of school work, sometimes full days.

 

Yes the holidays are great, but as Pengy says, they are not purely time off. I still work in my hols.....the only thing is it's more flexible....I can choose when and how much work I do.

 

As for the pension issue....... as far as I am aware, the pension I will get ain't nothing to write home about. I don't get where this idea that they're amazing pensions come from? I bow to anyone else's superior knowledge on this one though as I'm never going to get old so have never bothered to look into it too much My gut feeling however is that if we have to pay more, work for longer, and receive less......then summat is unfair. Why introduce all three? Yeah, I get the idea we all have to tighten our belts...... but as far as I am aware, no union is saying no to changes to pensions...... just no to so MUCH change at once.

 

I do have to say though, that I find the idea that public sector workers are suffering less than private sector workers regarding the economy a bit of a strange one. My petrol/gas/electricity/food costs have gone up as much as everyone elses. My pay has been frozen the same as I imagine many private sector industries have? I'm confoooosed!

 

Just as a little aside.....someone told me the other day that the average teacher lives three years after retirement......this came only a few months after I found out I had to work an extra three years.....  I'm desperately hoping I am above average, as that big chunk of my wages that disappears every month is gonna be a bit pointless.

 

 

ION: I will be working tomorrow........the NUT, and the other one I forget the name of, are not the only teachers unions, and the majority of teachers at my school (including myself) belong to one that has not voted to strike.....

 

.....yet

Ducky...my mum and dad both pegged it without living long enough to collect pensions....you can have their share as a bit extra...

Aww Croc! I'm sorry to hear that .......but will gladly accept your kind offer

 

Now I must go..... I want to finish 58 reports before bed. That's 19 an hour......1 every three minutes.......it ain't gonna happen is it?

 

I wish I hadn't spent time writing that humongous post now.

Have to say that I have the most ENORMOUS amount of respect for teachers... but I didn't used to have.  I have 2 daughters - one just left year 11, and one in year 10, due to start year 11 in September.  Before I had kids at school, I did think that a teachers life was a doddle.  16 weeks holiday a year, £50K a year, start at 9, finish at 3. Spend half the day in the staff room chatting and smoking.. BUT after seeing 2 kids through school for the last 10 or more years, I can see that it's not like that.  At all.....Most of them work very very very hard................!!!!!!!

 

Some of the teachers (especially in secondary school,) have to put up with so much crap and suffer so much stress.  My eldest daughter was actually in a class last year (English) where the 40 year old teacher was reduced to tears by TEN kids in the class antagonsing her and taking the piss and laughing at her.  (My daughter was NOT one of the kids BTW!!!!)  The head gave them a massive bollocking, and a one week suspension.  I know some may say 'leave then!' but they trained for years for this and it's what they want to do if only they did not have to put up with such horrid kids!!!  Not ALL kids are like this, but some are of course.....  Also, although the school finished at 3.30pm, the teachers were always there til 4.30pm  to 4.45pm and sometimes 5.30pm, doing after school clubs, school plays, extra tuition for the kids who were struggling, and sometimes marking, amonsgt other things.......

 

Yes, they *do* have more holidays than us mere mortals, but for some of it, they are preparing the next term's work, and are marking work... and what's more; they have worked very very hard to get to this position, by spending a number of years, (maybe 4 or 5 in some cases,) getting a degree... so maybe they deserve that longer holiday.... if people are pissed off with the 'long holidays' then they are free to train as a teacher too!  It's a free country!!!

 

Teachers also have to meet targets and goals like people do in 'regular' jobs, and can suffer intimidation from other teachers or the head if their face doesn't fit...and yes, 'bullying' from children sometimes...  The kids forget sometimes, that the teachers are just 'people' with hopes and fears and worries, and bills and rent and mortgage and families of their own and families of their own.

 

Like nurses and the police and doctors and fireman, I think teachers do a WONDERFUL job, and I certainly couldn't do it.. You have to be some special kind of person to be a good teacher IMO... and getting on with the kids is imperative...

 

As for the rest of the public sector workers, like the people at the tax office, the jobcentre and the councils and stuff; I have no sympathy with them at all.  Some of them (not all, but some,) who work in these environments, seem to act like the country owes them a living.  Many people have worked for 20 or 30 years in the same job, working their way up the ladder, at places like Woolworths and MFI, (and other places that went under....; ) And because they went into liquidation, many of them got nothing... no redundancy and no pay off and in most cases; little or no pension.....  Many of them are now in minimum wage jobs, after having to start at the bottom of the ladder again. 

 

For some reason, 'some' people  who work for the public sector (not teachers or firemen or nurses or police, just the regular office workers,) seem to think that they should be immune to the extreme measures that everyone else is suffering.  And I don't know why they think this..... I think some of them (not all, but some,) have been a bit spoilt over the years, and this is going to be a massive culture shock for them....but everyone is suffering the same, not just them!!!  Unfortunately, we are all in this together, so everyone; (and that includes teachers unfortunately,) has to have the axe fall on them too. 

 

 

. I know what you mean. I love the actual teaching.. but the contact hours are just the tip of the iceberg, eh? I'm officially off on holiday just now.. but I'm spending time developing new units and learning materials, writing induction packs , rewriting unit master packs ( because of the ever -moving goalposts there are about how we deliver , assess,verify and record ). All things you can't do in class time and don't get the opportunity to do in the workplace because of the meetings, meetings and more meetings there are to notify all the changes to arrangements.. 

To all the teachers.... including the ones on here.... (ex teachers and all!!!!!!!!!)

 

Sorry - can't resist - I wondered when Sparkles was gonna show 

Soozy, please.    Brisket's friend came on to the board last week, and said a really nice fitting tribute to Brisket would be for us all to be nicer to one another....  Why did you have to start?    Please let it go.    I havent done anything to you, and I put a really supportive post for the teachers because I admire them so much.  Please, I am asking nicely, will you PLEASE let this go.......and stop attacking me for nothing..............Am I not allowed to post, for fear of being attacked by you... do I have to dread posting - or feel i cannot, because i know that a sarcastic comment is going to appear from you?  Why can't you just drop it, and leave me alone?  I have done NOTHING to you... I just want to get on with posting, and get on with everyone....  Why do it?   

 

Congratulations Soozy, you have made me feel lousy.........  and made me feel like I don't want to post here....If that was your quest, then well done!  You have made me feel like shit.... And made me feel really low.  I like it here,  but don't know if I feel like posting anymore..........Call me a drama queen if you like, but you have no idea how your continual haranguing makes me feel......  Sometimes I just ignore it, but I have just had enough now.



I don't see the argument about the private sector not having the same conditions.

Me neither....every place has different work pay and conditions....but to unilaterally change them is out or order.

Blimey Sparkles...its hard to keep up with all your edits....can't you just make new posts or something?

So sorry Croc.. I have finished the post now..........  I have really severely had enough of Soozy now.... the constant digs have just wore me down.... she can't leave me alone...... I am sure she will come up with a 'good reason' for attacking me though.  I am sure to have done something to deserve it. 

Soozy go clean your bedroom. Sparkles go do your homework.

 

Seriously children, That's enough today. 

The red sox fan has spoken...

..and the classroom fell silent.

I have that effect on people.

we're just afraid he'll give us six of the best 

Six of the best?  Sorry, that phrase is one I'm not familiar with.   What am I missing?

I'll let Pengy explain that. 

ha ha ha   you've all got minds in the gutter 

 

 

Basically Dave in the olden days (just after gaslight and before electricity)  it was the phrase used when teachers gave you the cane for bad behaviour  - you got three slaps with the cane on each hand and it was known as 'six of the best' 

Uh Oh. Dare I?

 

Pengy?