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Reference squiggle Today at 16:10:
 2 points GJ, first of all the much hated Margaret Thatcher won for us a rebate from Europe. Worth about ÂĢ6 billion if I remember rightly. Much appreciated, or not, since GB has now given it up in return for what?
Thatcher's EU rebate was never the unalloyed victory it's been portrayed as since. It was a result of horse-trading which also resulted in a huge reduction in the amount of EU money that came back to Britain, As a result, it increased our deficit in the long run.



The biggest losers were British farmers, who lost out on a lot of EU funding. In theory, those subsidies should have come direct from the British Government instead, but didn't in practise. It's largely due to Thatcher's EU deal that British farming is in such a mess now.
Eugene's Lair
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Isn't that just the sort of thing that was being talked about last night on the TV debate, throw enough lies about and hope to frighten people.  David Cameron made it quite plain that it was his intention to keep everything in place like that, and of course he has made it abundantly clear that the NHS is ring-fenced.  I don't want more spin, smears and lies I want a fresh take on everything and a real change
Amen to that..... me too. I am sick of politicians who  refuse to take responsibility for the fact that they sometimes mess things up...and  prevaricate and prefabricate... and that is me being polite
Baz
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That's simply not true:
Your source Wikipedia

Tony Blair, the former prime minister was criticised for failing to win concessions when he decided to axe the UK’s Brussels rebate four years ago.

Now figures calculated by House of Commons researchers show that Britain will have lost out on ₮10.5billion (ÂĢ9.3billion) by not receiving the full rebate between 2007 and 2013, calculated at 2004 prices.

 

AND

 






The Treasury statistics show that the UK's net contribution to the EU will increase from ÂĢ4.1 billion this year to ÂĢ6.4 billion in 2010/11.

The figures were published in the Treasury's annual Community Finances statement, which was slipped out last month just before parliament broke up for its summer recess.

The revelation will fuel the political debate over whether Britain benefits from being in the EU, after more than a quarter of UK voters in this year's European elections backed parties which want to take Britain out of the EU.

It comes six weeks before Irish voters go to the polls in a second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, in which a "yes" vote would put the controversial treaty – which transfers national powers to Brussels and creates a powerful new EU president – on course to become law in all 27 member states.

Last night the Conservatives branded government "incompetence" for the rise in contributions. The Opposition said the increased payments were the result of the "selling out" of Britain's annual EU rebate by Tony Blair and Gordon Brown at an EU budget-setting summit 2005.

The latest Treasury figures also show that Britain is currently the second biggest net contributor, behind Germany. The new net UK contribution of ÂĢ6.4 billion is the equivalent of ÂĢ257 for every household in Britain – or 3p on the standard rate of income tax.

Britain's budget rebate – won by Margaret Thatcher in 1984 – is to shrink from ÂĢ5.1 billion this year to ÂĢ3.3 billion in 2010/11.

The percentage increase in the net contribution between this year and next year is by far the biggest between any two years since 2003, according to the Treasury figures.

In 2003/4 Britain's net contribution was ÂĢ3.2 billion, and in following years was at ÂĢ3.9 billion, ÂĢ4.4 billion, ÂĢ3.5 billion, ÂĢ4.2 billion and ÂĢ3.0 billion before hitting ÂĢ4.1 billion this year under current spending plans.

Britain's EU rebate was designed to compensate the UK for the high costs of the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP), which benefits Britain much less than other countries because of its relatively small farming sector.

Before the last big round of EU negotiations, Mr Blair promised parliament that the "UK rebate will remain and we will not negotiate it away."

However, at the European Council in December 2005 Mr Blair negotiated away around 20 per cent – or ÂĢ7.2 billion – of the rebate Britain would have received over the period 2007 to 2013.

As part of the "deal", Britain received promises of cuts to the CAP subsidies paid to farmers. However, these have not so far been forthcoming, with the French government digging in its heels over plans to reform the CAP. [If France and the others don ‘t keep their side of the bargain, nor should we! -cs] 

The December 2005 negotiations saw allies of Mr Brown, then the Chancellor, claiming that the former prime minister had gone against the wishes of the Treasury – sparking a fresh battle in the long running political war between the two men.

However, in 2007 it was reported that Mr Brown had caved in and agreed to rubber stamp the original deal.



squiggle
Last edited by squiggle
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Thatcher's EU rebate was never the unalloyed victory it's been portrayed as since. It was a result of horse-trading which also resulted in a huge reduction in the amount of EU money that came back to Britain, As a result, it increased our deficit in the long run. The biggest losers were British farmers, who lost out on a lot of EU funding. In theory, those subsidies should have come direct from the British Government instead, but didn't in practise. It's largely due to Thatcher's EU deal that British farming is in such a mess now.
One thing I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that Margaret Thatcher went into Europe swinging her handbag on behalf of the people of this country whether that fact sits happily with Labour supporters or not. It seems to me that that is what David Cameron is intending to do, and I for one want to give him a chance to do it.
squiggle
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Not sure where you got that from, squiggs, but my source link said no such thing. In fact, we still have a veto on any EU moves to stop the re
Reference:
Not sure where you got that from, squiggs, but my source link said no such thing. In fact, we still have a veto on any EU moves to stop the rebate.
My advice mate stop using Wikipedia as your source.  This information is freely available on the web, and what's more its fact, I have lived through it, I am not an idiot and I know what happened.
squiggle
I've accused you of nothing. You stating "I'm not an idiot" would suggest you feel someone has either called you one, or implied you are. What I have said is, you're aggressive and I think the tone of your recent posts supports that view. By the way I "lived through" what your heroine Thatcher did to people at the sharp end of her policies, and know what happened there, too. ~shrugs~
Bye now
Demantoid
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I agree GJ. Foot was a true Labour politician with the rights of the working man as his motivation. Benn was a very sincere man and I am told by someone who met him, a lovely lovely man. Powell was cruelly misrepresented when he was trying to give a warning about this country which he loved. And dear Ann Widdecombe who is a very able politician was, I believe, held back because she was not 'cute'. My opinion only of course. Prescott? Ahem, tiptoes quietly out of thread.
Yes one of my 'aggressive' posts.  You are entitled to your opinion Deman, take care.
squiggle

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