I read that yesterday.    

 

What an ignorant old fool.

Cheers kaffy. I've actually roused myself enoughto send an e-mail to the express.

I heard it yesterday. My dad fought right across Europe but he never bore the German people any ill will.

How ignorant ..............I don't see why his attitude should be tolerated (or even given air time) simply because he's an eccentric old man.

Some 20 years ago one Armistice Day I was in our local and an elderly gent walked in, related to one of the usual subjects. We got chatting and he asked me if I'd bought a poppy. So I said I hadn't, but had put a pound in the box. It emmerged that he was in the RAF and a pilot in the first 1000 bomber raid over Cologne. From than on, we met on the anniversaries of the blitz and the Cologne bombing. He became one of my best friends and, before he died, he gave me a book which he had 'liberated' from Luebeck town hall. It's full of photos of German cities in the 1910s and 20s. I always mean to send it back and get it to go full circle.

Some may think it strange that hatred can fill a man’s heart for almost 70 years – so much so that he could never love another woman – but put this bitterness in a modern context: will those who lost loved ones in London terror bombings ever forgive the IRA or Muslim fanatics?

I don't see the relevance of the above paragraph.   The highlighted bit is understandable but a world away from 'the only good Muslim/Irishman/'Kraut'  is a dead one' surely?

that's a lovely story, Col.

Wow! 

 

I knew that Patrick Moore is anti Europe, anti immigration, anti equality laws, anti women in TV etc, but what a scummy piece of writing?!!  

Very bigoted man !

I never knew any of those things blizzie. How disappointing.

Thanks all for your views.

My mum is 81 - tbh I'm often horrified at some of the stuff she comes out with (nothing as bad as that^^^^ but pretty grim). She was at junior school during the war and the daily propaganda she was fed during formative years was dreadful. The thing is she believes everything her teachers told her - some of the stuff she comes out with is almost hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

It sad to harbour so much bitterness

Does he refuse to interview or talk to eminant German astrologers? Or even acknowledge their work - if so he is also unprofessional

Remember the old boy detesting him.

 

Must have known him as both were navigators and both trained in Canada at the same time.

I'd imagine he does, as astrologers are purveyors of pure 100% bullshit!  'Eminent' and 'astrologer' are an oxymoron.

I thought he is an astronomer.

 

Patrick Moore is a notorious right winger with right wing views that are a long way from the mainstream of right wing opinion.  He's made similar controversial statements before.

 

Maybe at his time in life, it's a time to reflect on what might have been and what was taken away from him.  Seems he's quite scared by his wartime experiences.

 

I would guess as a scientist, he must have respect for German science and its many achievements but still hold a bitter hatred for Germans.

 

That said, as someone who has quite a strong interest in astronomy, I think he has a passion for his work, which is more than can be said for all the idiot TV chefs etc and has done much to keep a minority interest science on TV.  He manages to inform the interested beginner as well as the hardcore astronomer.

 

Does his sentiments strike a chord with us?  IMO, I think it's been there since WW2 and I we do like to hark back to the war at every given opportunity and usually given a nationalistic boost during football tournaments.

 

We and our media love the war in this country, it's one of the few periods in history where the majority of us can feel smug that we were the good guys.

 

The belief, rightly or wrongly, that the German national character was inherently expansionist, power hungry and needed to be kept down for the overall benefit of Europe is not a uniquely British perspective and goes back far further than post WW2.

 

I guess the German work ethic is something to be admired or feared or both.

 

I vaguely remember the old boy saying Moore's ascension was unmerited.

 

Then he was from Govan.

 

He left when I was 11 so it's fuzzy.

It's hard to make up propaganda that could have equalled the true immorality of Nazi Germany.  They didn't know the full extent of the concentration camps until the war was over.

Can I just point out that this kind of relationship between the Germanic tribes and what is basically the rest of Europe [well at least southern and western europe] has been going on for at least 2000 years, not since the nineteen forties.

Old habits die hard.

Sorry - i meant "Astronomers"

I don't believe in astronomy, but all of us Aries peeps are like that.

it's odd to think now that it was us Brits  that first used concentration camps in the Boer wars.

Yep, we've got a dirty history and generally one not to be proud of.  Not that we're too different from the other past European colonial powers. I guess WWII probably was 'our finest hour'.

 

Carnelian, I do remember my father saying that a lot of Germans in the West did not know. All the concentration camps were in the East. He did though and managed to help a lot of people out. He wanted my mother out at one stage, she had several English friends, but my mum was the sort of person who'd be cooking, baking and singing/entertaining the kids in the bunker. She wouldn't budge.

Good on your mum, Col.

 

Re Patrick Moore, this excerpt may go some way to explaining why he holds his views but it certainly doesn't excuse them.

"Sir Patrick cannot forgive the Germans because his fiancée Lorna was killed in an air raid on London in 1943 and he took his revenge as a Flight Lieutenant in Bomber Command, dropping high explosives on Germany from a Lancaster."

I think it's quite sad that he has allowed this hatred to fester for over 70 years.

 

It is a bit sad since we carpet bombed Dresden and German women were gang raped in their thousands, mostly by Russians, in the months following their defeat.  There were what really were war crimes committed against the Germans after the war that I suppose, in the context of the victors writing history, has been brushed under the carpet.  I expect there's Germans who think the only decent Brit or Russian is a dead Brit or Russian.  Can't really condemn them for it. 

 

"He took his revenge", indeed, but who were victims of his 'revenge', civilians like him with their own lives and loves?

 

We only live once.  Although Moore's comments may seem unreasonable, it's clear that his hatred hasn't stopped him getting on in life, at least professionally.

Cologne

 

 

London

 

I feel these show the futility, but also some triumph. Both churches survived.

I passed by the upper one yesterday lunchtime! The padlocks are even further across the Hohenzollern bridge, and i see that it has also caught on in Hannover. Superb weather today btw!
The germans don't have any bad feeling, they just get on with it. Their economic miracle seems to have benefitted everyone. A great success story. Mebbees if the thatcherites had had a plan B we would have been in the same situation.

Thanks Garage.

I'm very homesick and jealous.

Mum enjoyed her trip toGermany muchly and was made very welcome. There is no denying that she interpreted everything with a WW2 subtext, and it was a sobering event when we took her to see the grave of someone who was in the same class as dad and her. The poor guy was killed in the last month of the war. As i said earlier, the war was a really big deal for their generation.
Peeps on the mainland are now becoming concerned about the rise of fascism particularly in greece. I wouldn't want the young pnes to have to go through it all again.