The guy is a murdering control freak,Sadly he just might get away with it ,shame,

I really liked Oscar as well

It's making perfect sense to me: he, needing to be in control, and being out of control, because he couldn't control her, took the ultimate control. It's not just about the 'facts' whatever they might be, it's about the psychology

Yup and imo, he knew that was Reeva

I concur M'Lady.

Aimee, interesting that you use past tense. Problem is, in my mind, that we have 'heroes' and 'devils' and it's v difficult for any of us to converge the two. Research and personal stories of those who abuse and have been abused in intimate/domestic relationships tells us, over and over again, that their 'public' and 'private' faces are v v different, that those 'outside' closed doors generally don't see it and that the point of greatest risk of the 'victim' is when they challenge/ threaten to leave  

Soooo..if we were a jury, what would you say to convince Yogi in order to secure a majority verdict?

I'd say ........'.if you don't hurry up and make your mind up we'll miss closing time.'

 

TBH - I know very little about the case - I started watching but it lacked the glitz and glamour of a US production and the slowness and accents were tiresome.

 

I'm a bit shallow.

Is it worse that it was Reeva? Yeah, possibly. Fact is: someone's child was, for absolutely no good reason. I happen to believe that he knew it was Reeva, partly because his reaction was completely disproportionate to a response to someone who was after your material 'possesions'  

If you are asking me whether it is a worse scenario that Oscar cornered the woman he loved in a toilet and shot her in a blind fit of fury, as opposed to a scenario where he thought there was an armed robber in his house and shot in fear, then yes, I think it is worse. 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with everything you said about domestic abusers. I have a friend I have known since we were at school together. She married a man who appeared to be quiet, pleasant and mild mannered, but was actually a nasty, controlling bully who beat her black and blue. She endured nearly fifteen years of hell before she was able to leave him and start a new life. 

Imo, the state have shown that Oscar behaved in a bad tempered, possessive way, but not that he was an abuser. 

I am judging this case, on the evidence presented in court. Thus far, the state haven't convinced me that Oscar knew it was Reeva in the toilet when he fired the gun. 

 

 

 

 

 

^^^^ this 

 

I was married to a bully and control freak for 20 plus years,I'm still here to tell the tale 

 

I do think he shows all the signs of a narcissistic control freak, but that does not make him a premeditated murderer.

I'm convinced they rowed, the texts a few days prior to the shooting makes me wonder if Reeva might have been having doubts about their relationship and it might have been running its course. Who knows, I doubt the truth will ever come out of OP's mouth, he seems to not want to take responsibility for any of his actions.

I truly want some sort of justice for Reeva, but premeditated??? I'm not totally convinced, although I have my suspicions and don't believe OP's version. Suspicion is not enough to prove the burden of guilt in my opinion, I would be truly disgusted if he walked away from the Culpable homicide result though. he was reckless in his use of a firearm, it was proven he knew it was not justified to shoot and kill someone who presented no danger to him... 

 

He had many options open to him that night and far more rational options than the one he chose to take.

 

Check to see if Reeva was not in the loo, I can't believe he didn't! He shouted get out of my house, why not lock the bedroom door press the alarms, call security and warn the intruder he was armed. Instead he proceeded into a small room not knowing where an intruder would be, and immediately went to the toilet door and fired four shots... not the actions of a freaked out, paranoid, terrified man not thinking straight in my opinion. More a calculated killer, but who did he intend to kill? 

 

 

 

Dame, I'm delighted you are still here to tell the tale, and like my friend were able to escape from a bullying control freak.

I agree with you about culpable homicide and think that the state should have gone for that charge if they wanted to be more certain of a guilty verdict.

I think the state have presented enough evidence to make a good case for Oscar being a hot headed, reckless, gun owner, who may well have fired his gun in anger (rather than fear) at someone he thought was a robber. We have heard from the gun expert who recounted the story of Oscar going into a Code Red mode when he previously thought there was someone in his house.

But so far, I'm not convinced by the evidence that he knew it was Reeva in the bathroom. 

 

 

They are discussing controlling men on R2 at the moment.

I know it's wrong to generalise and I hate to be bigoted, but as you know I have zero tolerance for South Africans. Maybe I've met the wrong ones, but certainly all our male relations have an Edwardian/Victorian attitude towards women. They also have a zero tolerance for gay people. I dislike their company.
Then of course there is the one who knocked my SIL about.
I can imagine a certain sector of their society (sic) hope that he gets off with it.

I'm not following this case like you lot but my first thought would be why on earth would he not think it was his GF in the loo if there were only 2 of them in the house.. I doubt it was premeditated, as in planned well in advance but, it strikes me he was off on one once they had a row and sounds like a red mist descended and he was on a mission.

 

GJ I understand your points about the SA people and attitudes towards women. Years ago some friends of the family  decided it would a good idea to emigrate to SA to build a 'better' life for them and their child. . they sold up here and sent all their belongings on by shipping container.. They flew over but were back in the UK within the month, long before their goods ever arrived in SA. the reason for the hasty return..

 

the woman was treated like she was no better than a piece of shit who should be tied to a kitchen sink 24/7 and she wasn't prepared to take any of that treatment or expectations of a woman's role so an about turn it was..

 

their furniture and belongings had to do an about turn and were travelling for about 6 mths in total..

 

that was 25 or so yrs ago now and I get the feeling not much has changed. .I also find from the odd Aussie show I watch [ mainly Masterchef Australia] that the Aussie men have an old fashioned attitude to women as well.. tho not as bad as the SA's  attitude . .I think it is also more the white male population that are of that frame of mind about women .. 

 

One of my DiL's grandfather was white South African, and although I never met him, my son did on numerous occasions, and he was a kind, gentle, polite old gentleman - no signs of arrogance or chauvinism.

However, I do remember a friend having a white South African boyfriend, and he was an arrogant, chauvinistic toad!

My parents also had a white South African friend who was married to a lovely English lady. He was a nice man but there was an underlying arrogance which came from having servants (imo) and his wife had to do quite a bit of retraining/reprogramming when they married. On one occasion, he was giving me a lift, and it was quite a warm day. Instead of asking me to open the passenger window, he barked an order. Without thinking, I told him he needed to say the magic word first. His face was a picture, but he did say please.

 

 

  So sorry you went through that Dame. Glad you're here to tell the tale and hope life has got easier for you 

 

Abusers never take responsibility for their actions. They're the worst type of liars, liars to themselves. 

 

I am sure there are good as well as bad.. and it is awful to generalise but in some cultures there are more of the bad than the good. . I think my opinion is slightly coloured by the fact the family friends went to all the expense of moving so far to start a new life and within a month it was so bad for her they had to come back. . plus they had a young daughter too and didn't want her to grow up with that around her either.. 

 

Stuck in a strange country the guy was fine, welcomed with open arms into all the social outlets.. but she was told she wasn't welcome, it was men only and women had to learn their place..  I can't recall if it was Jo'burg or Cape Town they went to but it was defo one of those two. . so sad and a huge loss of money for them but no way they could stay. .they had already uprooted once in their lives when escaping from Poland during, and after the War in his case when he jumped ship at a UK port to escape the commies, so  twas a huge decision to uproot again after yrs of settling into a new country.. needless to say they stuck with gold ol UK once they got back. ..

That sounds awful, and I'd have turned around and come home just like your friend did.

 

I knew a guy who emigrated to Durban and married a S African girl. When they returned to NI to stay with his parents - they were horrified at the girl just dropping her clothes where she left them and expecting them to be picked up. She was so used to servants, she expected her Mother in law to fetch + carry for her too. Also she came across as very rude. 

 

They couldn't get over her complete lack of manners.

That was one of the things the chap I mentioned had to be reprogrammed on.

Reprogrammed 

It didn't go down well with an Irish mammy let me tell you Yogi - they programme politeness into their kids - with a wooden spoon if necessary 

 

I do think there is a difference between what would be considered 'English' South African's and Afrikaaners 

 

I dated an 'English' South African who was from Joburg - he admitted his attitude when he first came to the UK was different to when we met as he'd hadn't been able to hold down a proper relationship with anyone here due to that attitude!

 

When I visited Joburg, he was treated like a god by his mother and every little thing was catered for whereas I felt he should do more for himself.  

 

The one thing that used to annoy the hell out of me was when they wanted to be sarcastic about you without you'd knowing, they'd say certain sentences in Afrikaans rather than English even though they spoke it perfectly   I did notice that they treated women appallingly - women were made to know their place   I wasn't liked because I refused to defer to any of them - surprisingly enough we didn't date for very long after we got back home 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm fine Rosie thanks and its all in the past   I used my own experience just to point out the majority of bullying control freaks wouldn't commit premeditated murder. 

 

I think its very possible OP did shoot into the loo knowing Reeva was there, so far the prosecution just haven't proven it to me conclusively.

 

I think they went with premeditated knowing the judge could then find him guilty of the lesser charge, she does have that option and the prosecution must have thought two options was better than one.  

 

 That makes sense, Dame.

 

Is that the 'control of men' or 'men who control' ?

 

Yes I thought someone might ask but I posted in a hurry. It was of course, the control of men.

 

I was just being a cheeky pedant GJ 

 

I'm struggling for anything constructive to say today. 

 

 

Rog my mammy was beloved of the ole schwabeen  (dish cloth)  she used to run it under the cold tap and wring out some water but left  just enough to sting the back of your legs when she was putting manners on us  

 

Dish cloths scare me so much I couldn't possibly do the washing up and leave that to others 

  Pengy.... shouldn't but...  

 

  

 suffices to say, I have impeccable manners  

^^^^*^^^^ Didja notice that I lied? Hmmm?

 Irish mammies rule! 

My friends Irish mammy got her to teach her step by step  how to email. That was fine but she completely forgot to put in the step about the space bar so she would receive strings of letters which she would spend hours deciphering!