another adjournment until tomorrow  do they ever do a full day in South African courts without numerous adjournments and tea breaks 

I missed a lot of it this morning, I had an appointment  I caught some of the whatsapp messages when I got back, he seems a control freak  I think that was definitely a bad day for OP, Reeva's own words confirming that he sometimes scared her. I wonder what more the messages will reveal  

I have to agree that the messages read out in court were not good for the defence. Reeva's messages certainly portrayed Oscar as a possessive and moody boyfriend. However, we also need to remember that the state admitted that 90% of the messages between Reeva and Oscar were loving messages. Naturally, the state didn't have any of those read out in court.

You didn't miss much this morning, Dame, the witness was the wife of Dr Stipp. 

She claimed to have heard six shots - 3, then another 3 - which can't be right as there were only 4 shots fired. She also had to admit she had signed her affidavit although there was a factual error in it. It seems she initially said she saw a figure in the bathroom, then retracted it at a later date.

It was a bit of a stalemate testimony, with the defence attempting to show her memory wasn't as good as she claimed, and the witness refusing to deviate from her version of events.

It's interesting that the BBC guy noted during earlier testimony from state witnesses (apart from Dr Stipp) that they are never prepared to consider any other possible interpretation of events than theirs. He wondered whether it was coincidence or tactics. 

thanks  for that Yogi...I will try and catch up later.

In a way I can't blame the witnesses sticking to their version of what they heard, they have all been attacked over memory. elaborating, or colluding..maybe that is why they are not willing to agree to Roux or his sidekicks line of questioning., because the minute they do it would throw their evidence right out the window.

its very clear that they all had similar stories from different parts of the complex and most of them did not know each other before the case, seems a bit of a stretch of the imagination that they are all wrong  Dr Stipp's wife obviously her shots and bat hitting the door 

there's no getting away from the fact they all heard a woman's screams...why did he continue to shoot 

As for 90% of the messages, the other 10% should have had her heading for the hills IMO. He must be found guilty of at least one of the gun charges now, he all but admitted it in the messages.. 

I think tomorrow's continuation of the messages will be interested - well they will be if we don't have a 100 adjournments M'lady and tea breaks and dinner break and more adjournments 

anyone want a bit of my rhubarb crumble? 

that sounds about right Pengy ....and is there custard with this crumble? 

of course or you could have ice cream if you prefer 

custard will be fine thanks Pengy 

I agree. I can't see how he can get off on that charge now.

The state definitely caused some damage today, showing that Oscar was possessive and bad tempered - not that either of those make him a killer - but (for me) it was the first piece of evidence which made me think he could be capable of the charge.

Assuming he takes the stand, I will be very interested to hear Oscar voice his version of events. I wish we could actually see him give his testimony, as I think you get a better idea of whether someone is telling the truth when you watch their body language and expressions.

I agree Yogi, the prosecution seem to be piecing together a strong circumstantial case, although I keep backing away from the thought he knew she was in the loo and wouldn't have deliberately set out to kill Reeva. 

He wasn't being threatened in anyway, but things now are starting to make me think he could have known it was her...the locked bedroom door always bothered me, the screams that all the witnesses heard, why did he continue shoot  I found it extremely depressing reading those whatsapp messages

My point from day one is that he was reckless with a firearm and that his intention was to kill whoever was in the toilet. He should therefor not be able to walk free with probation and a slap on the wrists 

I'm also interested to hear him take the stand, but his credibility is now well and truly tainted with the admission of him lying about the restaurant incident.

There's now no doubt he was responsible for the firearm going off in the restaurant, although it does seem to have been an accident rather than deliberate. 

I'm trying to remain open minded until I hear the defence, and even if Oscar is jealous, possessive and quick to anger, it doesn't mean he deliberately shot Reeva, but today's evidence definitely opened my mind to the possibility.

I have always tried to be open minded Yogi, I'm still leaning to it was an impulsive act most days and then days like today when I think he could really have done it out of temper  I'm pleased I haven't to decide his fate 

Me too, Dame.

Bless you Yogi, you must be the fairest minded person I have ever, ever come across

Barry has Col. Vermeulen back tracking and looking a very weak upon further cross examination - looks like the defence are scoring a few points here 

another full day in South African judiciary land and now we're adjourned till Friday 

I'm trying really hard, it doesn't come easily.

 Yes, it was a better day for the defence.

I was over the moon to have Roux back today. I didn't like Oldwadge's style of questioning - like a stern schoolmaster.

*whispers - I'm becoming quite fond of Barry myself - but I'll refuse to admit that if anyone asks*  

 *whispers, YAY! *

pah, there's no hope for Yogi, but you 

I'll just reiterate that 

but compared to Oldwadge from yesterday he's charm personified 

and... and.... and...   just cos he makes me laugh, doesn't mean I necessarily agree with his stance - I'm still leaning towards a row that escalated to murder 

but...but...but he makes me want to throw myself under a train  Nel is the only lawyer/barrister I've liked in any court case. The OJ Simpson trial was the worst ever on both sides 

what's with the dress sense of the men in SA????  The Sky news analyst Llewellyn thingymebob has the most horrendous shirts I've ever seen - do they not have mirrors in SA? 

 I pit it tu yu...you are correct 

I have more questions than answers, but I am 99% sure OP has told a bunch of lies.

The proof is just not quite there for me yet, unless Nel can do something with the defence witnesses at which he supposed to be really good at.

1. I don't think she was in bed, not in the same clothes she arrived in and it appears she had the same top on.

2. I can't for the life of me see why the hearing witnesses would tell lies about shouting and screams.

3. I can't understand the jeans under the patio window...was she trying to leave and he threw threw them out?

4. Why would her overnight bag be zipped and packed if she was staying the night?

5. The times between the shots/bat or bat/shots and him carrying Reeva downstairs.

I have loads more, but my heads done in with it, I'm just not getting all this unless Roux can pit's it tu me  () 

I do think he should be found guilty of Culpable Homicide, but I do think there is more to it than what he's owning up to. 

I can't wait till Friday when they resume - I've got withdrawal symptoms  as for the culpable homicide I think that's the least he'll be done for 

from what Alex Crawford on Sky was saying, OP should be the first witness up for the defence as per SA tradition - be interesting to see how Nel cross-examines him - just hope he isn't sick in a bucket and crying so we get 1000s of adjournments for him to compose himself in between tea breaks and dinner 

 and 

I've spent some of this morning and tonight going over the DS thread...they dissect everything, some speculate and others look at the facts. The more I've read it and thought about everything, I really do think there was a almighty row...its all circumstantial, but the damage to the bedroom door, bathroom door, bath panel..its just makes you wonder what did happen.

Reeva dressed, food in her stomach, bladder had a small amount of urine in it, yet she was locked in the toilet. He spoke to her before he went on the balcony, brought two fans in and then automatically went for his gun to blast 4 shots through the bathroom door at a supposed burglar...its making no sense whatsoever. 

He done-diddly-done it 

I'm mainly getting my info here, The Telegraph live update, and DS. 

I am also having withdrawal symptoms. Roll on Friday.

Dame, in answer to your questions :

I thought she was wearing a vest top and shorts - normal bedwear for some women.

I guess people can misinterpret what they hear. My grandfather used to say "believe only half of what you see, and nothing of what you hear", because things are not always what they seem.

I thought the evidence/photos from the police showed the jeans were lying on the bedroom floor. Left where they were dropped?

Was her overnight bag packed and zipped? Perhaps I missed that evidence. There have been times when the internet live feed had crashed.

Roux has already cast doubt on the stomach contents evidence and I thought it was shown that she had recently emptied her bladder? 

I don't think the state has done enough to get a guilty verdict for premeditated murder, but culpable homicide is possible.

Then again, what do I know? I thought Casey Anthony was as guilty as sin, and the stupid jury found her innocent.

I will be really interested to hear OP's version of events.

Yogi  

Apparently she was wearing the same vest top she arrived in, I find that highly unlikely in that heat that she would still be wearing it 9 hours later to sleep in...unless I've totally got mixed up somewhere 

To me it doesn't matter whet the sounds were bat/gun or the other way around, all the witnesses were consistent about loud voices, screams and the timings of the sounds.

One pair of jeans on the bedroom floor and one pair below the patio window.

I think her overnight bag was packed Yogi, I'm sure I saw photo's of it.

I didn't believe Roux evidence about the stomach contents...you could argue over 30 minutes or so..but not 5 hours.

I don't know what Roux will come up with, but its not going to change the events. He killed Reeva and I do honestly think they were rowing, whether he meant to kill or or scare is at the minute the only doubt in my mind. 

Ah right, there were two pairs of jeans. Might they have been outside to dry?

Haha, I'm in Defence mode tonight.

I think I want to believe it was a tragic accident, although I have no idea why I feel that way. I'm not a sports fan, never mind an OP fan.

Perhaps I just hate the scenario of Reeva being stuck in that toilet, terrified out of her wits, before being shot by the man she loved. It's just too awful.

It is Yogi and I understand  its just his story of the nights events so far are not believable in my mind. The more I read and think about things the more convinced I am. I do think (hope) he will get found guilty of Culpable Homicide at the very least, he did go out to kill someone trapped in a tiny area and he was in no imminent danger of being hurt, In fact he went out of his way to confront and kill whoever was in the toilet