***YAWN***

Today it comes to a conclusion and the findings of the report are published.  The families of the victims are are the Guild hall in Derry David Cameron is due to speak on Ulster radio at 2pm and will presenting the findings of the Saville report.


This thread is not personal and I am really not trying to attack anyone. Its a topic very close to my heart, so if it doesn't interest you that's fine but I have a feeling there may be some people out there who have followed the report.

I can't believe that it's taken this long, just to find out what most people already knew!

I really hope that the conclusion can bring peace to those families affected and the whole community. Some will want prosecutions, but others will want to move on and build on the peace process. I'm not sure which way is right, as I damned sure those higher up gave the orders, whether implicitly, or not.

Fair enough. I've been following it as much as I follow any current affairs about Human Rights' issues (and abuses) and I agree with Blizzie, lets build on this public acknowledgement and move on to some more dialogue and reconciliation.

I would imagine it has taken this long because those conducting the research knew that because it was a government funded project they could basically rip the arse out of it, as they were getting paid for it.

The whole thing should just hopefully bring about closure and help the resident of Derry to move forward together, and hopefully those responsible are brought to justice. 

its a shame for service men such as Steve and the like who (afaik) do their job fairly and they get tarnished by Armey officers who kill innocent civilians like those in Derry and other ones who have been reported from Afghanistan etc.

Like I said, before closure is what is the most important thing for those involved, and the truth is set free.

I can't (and wont) argue with that.

I was just saying to my son, he probably wouldn't have even been blown up, if it hadn't been for that day.
The IRA must have recruited a huge number of members after that.

Who knows how things could have panned out if the civil rights marchers had actually been listened to!

Bloody hell Lister. I would imagine any right thinking, compasionate person would want to see justice served. Your response shocks me quite frankly

It all started from the Black and Tans who seemed to be very loosely controlled by the British Government, and they bombed and murdered and raped random people. It was more of a power trip I think than anything. But while I don't agree with violence in anyway shape or form, I can understand why the Provisional IRA came to exist, they were freedom fighters (such as Bobby Sands etc) and have since disband, however these newer types of IRA splinter groups such as the Continuity IRA and the real IRA are really just scum bags and are murdering people like the 2 fellas at the Masscerene Barracks and the policeman Steven Carroll.  They refuse to even meet half way with Unionists as Gerry Adams and Martin Mc Guinness have done.  

The emergence in the 80s of Conservative power and especially Maggie Thatcher accounted for probably the bloodiest decade in NI's history, and that when Steve claims he was injured. So I would imagine that Thatcher's reign was the result of Steve injury, probably aided by the hurt from 1972.

Police chopper is up all morning here so I'm guessing they are expecting some trouble.  There's a march starting soon so hopefully it goes peacefully.

Do you live in Derry City Ella?

Agreed.  This enquiry affects a lot of people who have suffered terribly.  It shouldn't be ridiculed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news...nday-northernireland

This is a account of everything that is happening at the Guildhall in Derry as it happens, I have been following it.

Cameron is due to speak at half 3

Thanks River

For those who want to hear Cameron live at 3.30 click this BBC link to the House of Commons live

You will be able to continue listening even if you return here, just don't try a music/video clip at the same time as that would get confusing

Thanks for the links River Rock & El Loro.

I do yes

Seems the families of those killed on Bloody Sunday got the news they wanted.  Looks like their relatives have been cleared of parlamilitary (sp) activity.

It seems that the report is utterly critical of the British army's involvement

Cameron - "None of the casualtities had done anything to justify their shooting"

Cameron - "None of the military's actions were in any way justified"

Tears pouring down my face. Thank God, closure and justice for the victims and their families.

Cameron - "However there is no indication in the report that there was any premeditation by the military"

This is a temporary link to the BBC News channel detailing Cameron's speech as he was talking.

This is a quick summary of Cameron's speech per the BBC

• He said it was "wrong" and that he was "deeply, deeply sorry."

• Troops went in as a result of a order that should not have been given.

• None of those killed was armed.

• There was some firing by republican paramilitaries, but none of this was justification for the reaction of the soldiers.

• No warning was given.

• It was a loss of self control by soldiers.

• Some of those shot and injured were clearly fleeing or aiding other wounded.

• One man was shot when was lying fatally wounded on ground.

• None of the casualties were doing anything that could justify their killing.

• You do not defend the British Army by defending the indefensible.

• No point in trying to soften or equivocate what is in this report.
• He said the tribunal found that some soldiers had "knowingly put forward false accounts".

Thank You El Loro

Thank you Fairfax - let's hope that this report can finally bring peace to all those affected.

Dave in BB asked Steve why the Troops were hated so much - that's why.
I hope all the innocent people are finally vindicated and they and their families can rest in peace.

I'm on the verge of tears here listening to the families of the victims.  The truth has finally been set free, the victims of Bloody Sunday have been exonerated, now hopefully those who carried out the shootings will receive their comeuppance.

Yeh Ella, that was the most important thing that these 14 people were proven to be innocent civillians and that they will no longer have their names tarnished.

This is a link to the official Saville Enquiry report

It is a massive report at something like 5000 pages - but Volume 1 Chapter 5 provides an overall assessment
It reads as follows:

5.1 The early firing in William Street resulted in two wounded casualties, neither of whom was doing anything that justified either of them being shot. It is possible that the soldiers concerned mistakenly believed that they had identified someone posing a threat of causing death or serious injury. Equally, each of those soldiers may have fired, not believing that his target was posing a threat of causing death or serious injury, but only suspecting that this might have been the case.

5.2 The soldiers of Support Company who went into the Bogside did so as the result of an order by Colonel Wilford, which should not have been given and which was contrary to the orders that he had received from Brigadier MacLellan.

5.3 With the exception of Private T and with the probable exception of shots Sergeant O said that he fired at someone on a balcony of Block 3 of the Rossville Flats and which, (despite his assertion to the contrary) did not hit anyone, none of the firing by the soldiers of Support Company was aimed at people posing a threat of causing death or serious injury.

5.4 We have concluded that the explanation for such firing by Support Company soldiers after they had gone into the Bogside was in most cases probably the mistaken belief among them that republican paramilitaries were responding in force to their arrival in the Bogside. This belief was initiated by the first shots fired by Lieutenant N and reinforced by the further shots that followed soon after. In this belief soldiers reacted by losing their self-control and firing themselves, forgetting or ignoring their instructions and training and failing to satisfy themselves that they had identified targets posing a threat of causing death or serious injury. In the case of those soldiers who fired in either the knowledge or belief that no-one in the areas into which they fired was posing a threat of causing death or serious injury, or not caring whether or not anyone there was posing such a threat, it is at least possible that they did so in the indefensible belief that all the civilians they fired at were probably either members of the Provisional or Official IRA or were supporters of one or other of these paramilitary organisations; and so deserved to be shot notwithstanding that they were not armed or posing any threat of causing death or serious injury. Our overall conclusion is that there was a serious and widespread loss of fire discipline among the soldiers of Support Company.

5.5 The firing by soldiers of 1 PARA on Bloody Sunday caused the deaths of 13 people and injury to a similar number, none of whom was posing a threat of causing death or serious injury. What happened on Bloody Sunday strengthened the Provisional IRA, increased nationalist resentment and hostility towards the Army and exacerbated the violent conflict of the years that followed. Bloody Sunday was a tragedy for the bereaved and the wounded, and a catastrophe for the people of Northern Ireland.

.

 I cried when I listened to it on the news but finally the truth is out....Unjustified and unjustifiable and if the Widgery report hadn't been such a cover up of the slaughter that took place that day the families could have had some sort of closure decades ago....It was a long time coming but finally the victims have all been vindicated...Lord rest their souls.

Oddly enough, out of all of the horrific photos, the one that really upsets me is the pic of the little girl stood behind the soldier laying outside a house

I am not very political and tbh stay out of all the carry on here but I did watch today the BBC coverage of the crowd reacting to the report and the speeches by the victims families had me in tears.  It was a very important day for them and a lot of people.  I wasn;t even a twinkle in my dad's eye then but my mum was pregnant with my oldest sister and was in rosville st at the time but was pulled into a flat by an older woman and told to stay there out of harms way.  She was too scared to look out as events were unfolding but said it was the scariest time of her life.  I can't even imagine the fear that the people in the street felt   I;ve seen a few forums today where people are far from happy with the report today and keep asking about all the people the IRA have killed.  That was EXACTLY the point of the report today, those people were NOT IRA men and were unarmed.  hopefully people will accept that finally.

Exactly Ella....Each one of the victims family seemed very emotional and relieved to say their brother/fathers/son name followed by innocent....They were unarmed posed no threat but were shot,one shot in the back and again while he lay on the ground mortally wounded ...

Exactly Ella, Arlene Foster was asking today why the same effort hasn't gone to the Omagh Bombing etc, the fact is the killings were done by State Forces, not terrorists separates the two.  While this has provided closure for the families, this is only the start, of all the soldiers alive who murdered it is is paramount they are prosecuted, while the world murder has yet to be used (probably for legal reasons) shooting an unarmed man in the back can be described as nothing other than cold blooded murder.

I would also like to see Widgery have his OBE removed for the false information he published that has held these 14 deceased people with tarnished names for the best part of 4 decades.

Widgery does need to be held accountable for the role he played in the cover-up ....Soldier F agreed he killed 4 of the victims but insisted not murder....Unarmed men who posed no threat shot dead imo is murder.