quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:

quote:

Originally posted by disley21:
I've read the entire thread again and can't see anybody saying that the kid deserved it or that he was asking for it, just a few people with poor reading comprehension as to what was actually said, or reading between the lines and finding things that aren't actually there.

That's the trouble though, some people see what they want to see and react to that, completely ignoring that marvelous thing known as context in the process.

Do you have a view on this disley, or have you just come in here to insult people?

My views on the matter are on page 16.

If I wished to insult somebody, I'd say far worse than I posted above.

Guess that just proves my point about reading between the lines and finding something that isn't there.

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:

quote:

Originally posted by tupps:
I need to read this thread again.. I'm not sure I saw this condoning part..

No-one seems to be condoning it do they? Just saying they can understand.

Well.. that's kinda the way I'm seeing it. Ok people are wording it differently, but I don't get the feeling anyone is saying 'yaaaaay' to a child in Hospital with head injuries or 'yaaaaaay' to the fella who allegedly caused those injuries.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by china:
all FMs are saying is that we can see WHY it happened QUOTE]
I can see why it happened China- the guy sounds like he was ill and couln't cope with his job- BUT there are a no. of posts on here that imply he was 'asking for it' and are verging towards 'blaming the victim'

Re your earlier post "its just some people cant believe we've got an opinion that doesnt match theirs and make us out to be scary wannabe child beaters" No-one has said that either, everyone is entitled to their opinion

quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Secretary:


Here are a few examples of posts people have taken exception to:

If the above account by The Sun is correct, then no wonder the poor bloke snapped.

________

in hindsight, if the kid had kept his gob shut it wouldnt have happened

________

I think we may have to bring back the whip...

________

Being taunted by some jumped up little scroats is enough to send any teacher over the edge.

________

The kid has to accept a degree of responsibility for provoking the teacher to the extent the teacher reacted as he did.
QUOTE]

And a few more:
if i saw a kid take the piss out of a stroke victim-i'd wallop the kid

kids will just bang on about human rights

if he'd have had the good manners not to take the piss out of the bloke, theres a good chance this thread wouldnt even be here, cos it wouldnt have happened

I'm sure the parents of the kids involved are up in arms, maybe had they taught their kids some bloody manners and respect in the first place the situation would not have occured.

The newspaper reports state he was being gobby so I don't see him as the victim of an unprovoked attack

Nobody was shocked as such, just felt really sorry for the teacher.

And all that when we know absolutely nothing about this individual child- not that that should particularly matter of course.

Aww but Sec, suppose that means that we have poor reading comprehension and are unable to appreciate context...nothing like resorting to personal attacks about people's intelligence in these discussions

personal attacks about peoples intelligence?
nah,
youve made that bit up
and, i most certainly WOULD wallop a kid if they took the piss out of a disabled person-i dont have a problem with that, maybe i could teach 'em some manners
lets face it, someone has gotta make a stand againt the feral little bastards, the courts and the cops dont
but thats just my opinion, im not concerned if you dont agree
if you read the thread through, no one is agreeing with what the teacher has done

quote:

Originally posted by china:
personal attacks about peoples intelligence?
nah,
youve made that bit up
and, i most certainly WOULD wallop a kid if they took the piss out of a disabled person-i dont have a problem with that, maybe i could teach 'em some manners
lets face it, someone has gotta make a stand againt the feral little bastards, the courts and the cops dont
but thats just my opinion, im not concerned if you dont agree
if you read the thread through, no one is agreeing with what the teacher has done

quote:

Originally posted by longcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Marguerita:
I know teachers have a lot to put up with but he is in the wrong the boy is very poorly he should be sacked .

I don't think he set out that morning with the intention of hurting a pupil. I think for an otherwise normal teacher to suddenly flip out like that suggests he had mental problems which may have been brought on by a recent stroke.

Haven't read through the entire thread but .......I do know that after a stroke a lot of people have a real personality change. I know of at least three people who were of a totally different temperament after suffering a stroke (very sad).

The thing is it's very hard to pin down - teaching is stressful at the best of times - I feel very sorry for the pupils involved but at the same time I feel for the teacher and his family.

quote:

Originally posted by china:
i most certainly WOULD wallop a kid if they took the piss out of a disabled person-i dont have a problem with that, maybe i could teach 'em some manners

That's illegal in this country. People don't have the right to punish other citizens, that's the preserve of the state. Just in case it wasn't made clear when you joined us.

quote:

i most certainly WOULD wallop a kid if they took the piss out of a disabled person-i dont have a problem with that, maybe i could teach 'em some manners Mad

i always find that sort of line hypocritical

quote:

Originally posted by disley21:
Guess that just proves my point about reading between the lines and finding something that isn't there.

So saying people have poor reading comprehension
isn't an insult

quote:

i most certainly WOULD wallop a kid if they took the piss out of a disabled person-i dont have a problem with that, maybe i could teach 'em some manners Mad

Unfortunately, you'd get done for that.

like i said
im not concerned if you dont agree
its how i feel
its my opinion
and its most certainly what id do if i saw kids tormenting a disabled person
and you can have a rant if you like
its sunday and the pulpit is open to everyone

quote:

Originally posted by Soozy woo:

quote:

Originally posted by longcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Marguerita:
I know teachers have a lot to put up with but he is in the wrong the boy is very poorly he should be sacked .

I don't think he set out that morning with the intention of hurting a pupil. I think for an otherwise normal teacher to suddenly flip out like that suggests he had mental problems which may have been brought on by a recent stroke.

Haven't read through the entire thread but .......I do know that after a stroke a lot of people have a real personality change. I know of at least three people who were of a totally different temperament after suffering a stroke (very sad).

The thing is it's very hard to pin down - teaching is stressful at the best of times - I feel very sorry for the pupils involved but at the same time I feel for the teacher and his family.

The thing with mental ill-health is that it can be hard to know you have it, too. You're relying on your rational side to recognise that you're not being rational. A sort of self-referential problem, as you might not have a yardstick of what you once were to judge against. The other thing is that seeking help for mental health issues is probably a good way to damage your career. Hence, not something to do lightly perhaps.

quote:

Originally posted by china:

personal attacks about peoples intelligence?
nah,
youve made that bit up
and, i most certainly WOULD wallop a kid if they took the piss out of a disabled person-i dont have a problem with that, maybe i could teach 'em some manners
lets face it, someone has gotta make a stand againt the feral little bastards, the courts and the cops dontbut thats just my opinion, im not concerned if you dont agree
if you read the thread through, no one is agreeing with what the teacher has done

Haven't we recently seen some cops behaving like 'feral bastards'?

Maybe their teachers and parents weren't tough enough with them?

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:

quote:

i most certainly WOULD wallop a kid if they took the piss out of a disabled person-i dont have a problem with that, maybe i could teach 'em some manners Mad

Unfortunately, you'd get done for that.

Or fortunately. Kids are people too. Assaulting random adults for their perceived lack of manners is a crime so I don't see why it shouldn't extend to children. Especially as they're smaller usually and therefore less able to protect themselves against assault from adults who want to assert their authority, perhaps wrongly so.

Not all cops are 'feral bastards'.. just as not all kids are 'feral' bastards'.

It kinda ****s me off when I see that and I would like to see some of the people dissing your average copper go out on a response shift and then come back and diss them.

But I digress..

quote:

Originally posted by tupps:
Not all cops are 'feral bastards'.. just as not all kids are 'feral' bastards'.

It kinda ****s me off when I see that and I would like to see some of the people dissing your average copper go out on a response shift and then come back and diss them.

But I digress..

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:

quote:

Originally posted by tupps:
Not all cops are 'feral bastards'.. just as not all kids are 'feral' bastards'.

It kinda ****s me off when I see that and I would like to see some of the people dissing your average copper go out on a response shift and then come back and diss them.

But I digress..

Same as teachers I suppose.. walk a mile in their shoes and all that..

quote:

Originally posted by Blizzie:

quote:

Originally posted by china:

personal attacks about peoples intelligence?
nah,
youve made that bit up
and, i most certainly WOULD wallop a kid if they took the piss out of a disabled person-i dont have a problem with that, maybe i could teach 'em some manners
lets face it, someone has gotta make a stand againt the feral little bastards, the courts and the cops dontbut thats just my opinion, im not concerned if you dont agree
if you read the thread through, no one is agreeing with what the teacher has done

Haven't we recently seen some cops behaving like 'feral bastards'?

Maybe their teachers and parents weren't tough enough with them?

feds arent the issue
ive been on the end of a severe kicking from them, just for a bit of enjoyment on their behalf, cos they couldnt charge me-but like i said, its not the issue

i bet loads of FMs agree with me, but they wont say it cos theyre fully aware of how they'll be perceived and know they'll be jumped on by other FMs

anyway, this is leading off the subject
the teacher was ultimatly wrong to bash the kids noggin to within an inch of his exsistance
theres no getting away from that
what made him do it?
thats what people want to know

quote:

Originally posted by tupps:
Not all cops are 'feral bastards'.. just as not all kids are 'feral' bastards'.

It kinda ****s me off when I see that and I would like to see some of the people dissing your average copper go out on a response shift and then come back and diss them.

But I digress..

I did say 'some', for the very reason you've stated!

quote:

what made him do it?
thats what people want to know

and therein lies the nubbin of the issue..

No-one is in receipt of the full facts. Clearly the CPS think they have enough to charge him with Attempted Murder.. how that will pan out once the investigation has been completed is anyone's guess.

We just don't know.. yet

quote:

Originally posted by tupps:
Not all cops are 'feral bastards'.. just as not all kids are 'feral' bastards'.

It kinda ****s me off when I see that and I would like to see some of the people dissing your average copper go out on a response shift and then come back and diss them.

But I digress..

I'm very interested tupps as to, if this had been 'your average copper' who had done this to a lippy child or adult taking the p out of them, that we would be seeing the same level of 'understanding' and 'blaming the victim'...I suspect not?

quote:

Originally posted by Blizzie:

quote:

Originally posted by tupps:
Not all cops are 'feral bastards'.. just as not all kids are 'feral' bastards'.

It kinda ****s me off when I see that and I would like to see some of the people dissing your average copper go out on a response shift and then come back and diss them.

But I digress..

I did say 'some', for the very reason you've stated!

Thank you. I had a moment..

quote:

Originally posted by tupps:
Thank you. I had a moment..

Filth!

quote:

Originally posted by tupps:

quote:

what made him do it?
thats what people want to know

and therein lies the nubbin of the issue..

No-one is in receipt of the full facts. Clearly the CPS think they have enough to charge him with Attempted Murder.. how that will pan out once the investigation has been completed is anyone's guess.

We just don't know.. yet

its one of them cases thats got everyone chatting, a bit like that nursery woman and the pics

and by the way fellow FMs
i want to make it clear i DO NOT go round bashing up kids

quote:

Originally posted by JacksonB:
lts of parents i know, absolutely dread the school holidays, because they have to have their kids at home.
lots of teachers work far longer than the school hours and do preparation work during the holidays.
parents who don't support teachers are a huge influence on the lack of respect in schools.
teaching is in the top 5 most stressful jobs, but i do think it can also be one of the most rewarding.

Good post Jackson

quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:
I'm very interested tupps as to, if this had been 'your average copper' who had done this to a lippy child or adult taking the p out of them, that we would be seeing the same level of 'understanding' and 'blaming the victim'...I suspect not?

What about if the copper wasn't average, had a good record and good skills according to the people on his beat, and had had a stroke recently? What if he was displaying signs of mental ill-health just prior to the incident and the victm was part of a group taking the piss about that in particular? Would people be trying to understand the copper and his circumstances?

quote:

Originally posted by china:
and by the way fellow FMs
i want to make it clear i DO NOT go round bashing up kids

Good ...but no-one suggested you might- other than you!

quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:

quote:

Originally posted by tupps:
Not all cops are 'feral bastards'.. just as not all kids are 'feral' bastards'.

It kinda ****s me off when I see that and I would like to see some of the people dissing your average copper go out on a response shift and then come back and diss them.

But I digress..

I'm very interested tupps as to, if this had been 'your average copper' who had done this to a lippy child or adult taking the p out of them, that we would be seeing the same level of 'understanding' and 'blaming the victim'...I suspect not?

The 'problem' with being a copper is that there is a greater level of expectation levied up on you.. just generally. It is the same for anyone involved in ze law. You have to be Snow White 24/7/365.

And I think it is in some way the same for Teachers. They are charged with the education of society's children. They are also their caretakers for a proportion of the day.

But all of them... are human. That is the basis on which you move from. And humans are not perfect.

It's a toughie.. because I think I could see two victims. I could see a victim of an unprovoked attack and I could see a victim of his circumstances. To decide I'd need to know more... and 'more' is something that is not out in the public domain.

quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:

quote:

Originally posted by china:
and by the way fellow FMs
i want to make it clear i DO NOT go round bashing up kids

Good ...but no-one suggested you might- other than you!

and i did didnt I

quote:

Originally posted by china:
and by the way fellow FMs
i want to make it clear i DO NOT go round bashing up kids

Is that just because you haven't met any yet who are being rude to the disabled at the time?

quote:

Originally posted by pussycatj:

quote:

Originally posted by JacksonB:
lts of parents i know, absolutely dread the school holidays, because they have to have their kids at home.
lots of teachers work far longer than the school hours and do preparation work during the holidays.
parents who don't support teachers are a huge influence on the lack of respect in schools.
teaching is in the top 5 most stressful jobs, but i do think it can also be one of the most rewarding.

Good post Jackson

It is- but kinda misses the point, we're looking at a teacher who was probably ill, couldn't cope with his job and smashed a kid's head with a 2kg weight

And as an addition to my above post about victims.

It is entirely possible to do that.. see them both as victims. It doesn't have to be black and white.. and life often isn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by china:
and by the way fellow FMs
i want to make it clear i DO NOT go round bashing up kids

Is that just because you haven't met any yet who are being rude to the disabled at the time?

actually,
i have been in that position
walking past a bus stop and school kids were pushing an old infirm woman about
no fisticuffs but i DID have a 'word' with them, and they nearly crapped themselves, and i waited with the old woman and put her on the bus, and told the driver what had happened and to keep an eye out incase the kids acted up again
they were only about 12 years old

you were lucky you weren't shanked china..

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:
I'm very interested tupps as to, if this had been 'your average copper' who had done this to a lippy child or adult taking the p out of them, that we would be seeing the same level of 'understanding' and 'blaming the victim'...I suspect not?

What about if the copper wasn't average, had a good record and good skills according to the people on his beat, and had had a stroke recently? What if he was displaying signs of mental ill-health just prior to the incident and the victm was part of a group taking the piss about that in particular? Would people be trying to understand the copper and his circumstances?

Somehow, I still think not, but I could be wrong?
Don't get me wrong Daniel, I do feel for this guy, and I understand as well as anyone why it may have happened, but, someone should have ensured that he wasn't in work to prevent this tragedy- himself/LA Occ Health/Headteacher?
I'm just truly astounded that the sympathy and 'understanding' on here seems so heavily weighted towards him . Not many people are saying, 'OMG this poor child, in hospital with a fractured skull and cerebral bleed' how dreadful, (irrespective of if he was a little shit or not- and of course, that ,we do not know at this stage.)

quote:

Originally posted by tupps:
you were lucky you weren't shanked china..

they were lucky

quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:

quote:

Originally posted by disley21:
Guess that just proves my point about reading between the lines and finding something that isn't there.

So saying people have poor reading comprehension
isn't an insult

Not when you see people being told that they 'proper terrify' someone for trying to figure out why something might have happened, no.

Of course it always amuses me when people attempt to tell me what my intentions with a post were, can you also tell me what I'm thinking right now?

quote:

Originally posted by disley21:

quote:

Originally posted by Supercalifragilistic:

quote:

Originally posted by disley21:
Guess that just proves my point about reading between the lines and finding something that isn't there.

So saying people have poor reading comprehension
isn't an insult

Not when you see people being told that they 'proper terrify' someone for trying to figure out why something might have happened, no.

Of course it always amuses me when people attempt to tell me what my intentions with a post were, can you also tell me what I'm thinking right now?

i bet i can

yep super.. IF this guy had problems that made this a possibility, then he and the boy have been failed. He shouldn't have been working if he was unfit to do so. Now that would confer some responsibility on the LEA ad also some on the teacher. But like DJ said earlier, if he has problems he might not be able to see them. Ultimately he was in the workplace doing a job of work.. if there were problems someone should have noticed and cared about him and the pupils enough to take action.

quote:

Originally posted by disley21:
Of course it always amuses me when people attempt to tell me what my intentions with a post were, can you also tell me what I'm thinking right now?

No I can't, I took your comment that a few people on here have poor reading comprehension as a personal insult....no other intent or 'mind reading' implied