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quote:
Originally posted by Lockes no 1 fan:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsB:
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
RE: Free speech...

If the likes of Griffin can get away with saying what he wants... then surely the converse is also true... i.e. you can say what you want about him and his party, as that's just your right to free speech after all... or does it only apply to one side now?


Free speech is one thing...violence (throwing objects at people with the intention to injure is violence, surely?) is another...or is violence ok if you are aiming it at a member of the BNP??



sorry but YES


Eeker Since when was violence acceptable? It may have ONLY been an egg...but next time it might be something far more dangerous and that would be fine too cos he's Nick Griffin, would it??? Because then that would make them as bad as him....
MrsB
I hate the fact that everything is so damn one-sided in this country, and a majority are cool with that.

This should work both ways. If Nick Griffins hate speech is to be censored, then the police and the public in general need to STOP accepting hate speech when done under the guise of religion.

Soldiers returning from Iraq being abused and receiving death threats, for instance, is disgusting and offensive behaviour, and yet it was tolerated for the mostpart.

A bigger insult on top of that would be that a couple of folks who retaliated were automatically arrested.

I do not take people too seriously if they lambast the likes of Nick Griffin, whilst allowing the likes of Abu Hamza to freely spew his extremism.

I may have only given a couple of examples, but the failure to treat all hatred with equal contempt is something which regularly disheartens me.
StGeorgina
quote:
Originally posted by Lockes no 1 fan:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsB:
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
RE: Free speech...

If the likes of Griffin can get away with saying what he wants... then surely the converse is also true... i.e. you can say what you want about him and his party, as that's just your right to free speech after all... or does it only apply to one side now?


Free speech is one thing...violence (throwing objects at people with the intention to injure is violence, surely?) is another...or is violence ok if you are aiming it at a member of the BNP??



sorry but YES


which of course makes you a thug no better than what you are saying about the bnp.
B
quote:
Originally posted by MrsB:
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
RE: Free speech...

If the likes of Griffin can get away with saying what he wants... then surely the converse is also true... i.e. you can say what you want about him and his party, as that's just your right to free speech after all... or does it only apply to one side now?


Free speech is one thing...violence (throwing objects at people with the intention to injure is violence, surely?) is another...or is violence ok if you are aiming it at a member of the BNP??


How much damage are you going to do with an egg?

Oh noes, think of the dry cleaning bills... Although that'll probably be claimed for... Laugh

If we're talking something that could actually hurt, then that's something else altogether, but this is up there with spraying someone with a water gun...
disley21
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
quote:
Originally posted by Lockes no 1 fan:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsB:
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
RE: Free speech...

If the likes of Griffin can get away with saying what he wants... then surely the converse is also true... i.e. you can say what you want about him and his party, as that's just your right to free speech after all... or does it only apply to one side now?


Free speech is one thing...violence (throwing objects at people with the intention to injure is violence, surely?) is another...or is violence ok if you are aiming it at a member of the BNP??



sorry but YES


which of course makes you a thug no better than what you are saying about the bnp.




if throwing eggs at nick griffin makes me a thug then so be it Smiler
Lockes
quote:
Originally posted by StGeorgina:
I hate the fact that everything is so damn one-sided in this country, and a majority are cool with that.

This should work both ways. If Nick Griffins hate speech is to be censored, then the police and the public in general need to STOP accepting hate speech when done under the guise of religion.

Soldiers returning from Iraq being abused and receiving death threats, for instance, is disgusting and offensive behaviour, and yet it was tolerated for the mostpart.

A bigger insult on top of that would be that a couple of folks who retaliated were automatically arrested.

I do not take people too seriously if they lambast the likes of Nick Griffin, whilst allowing the likes of Abu Hamza to freely spew his extremism.

I may have only given a couple of examples, but the failure to treat all hatred with equal contempt is something which regularly disheartens me.


i do agree with most of what you say and you do give plenty of disgusting examples but surely to defend the right of even the most disgusting in society is still the right thing to do, let them hang themselves by allowing them to be heard instead of making heroes out of them.
B
quote:
Originally posted by MrsB:
quote:
Originally posted by swg:
maybe if they put as much effort into voting and getting their friends and relatives to vote they'd not have a problem


Exactly. It's not the fault of the BNP that the people voted them in...if there had been a better turn out, then maybe they wouldn't have done. Don't complain unless you bothered to vote.

I voted....not for the BNP...but I voted...how many of these egg throwers and complainers did???


Clapping
Mauser
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsB:
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
RE: Free speech...

If the likes of Griffin can get away with saying what he wants... then surely the converse is also true... i.e. you can say what you want about him and his party, as that's just your right to free speech after all... or does it only apply to one side now?


Free speech is one thing...violence (throwing objects at people with the intention to injure is violence, surely?) is another...or is violence ok if you are aiming it at a member of the BNP??


How much damage are you going to do with an egg?

Oh noes, think of the dry cleaning bills... Although that'll probably be claimed for... Laugh

If we're talking something that could actually hurt, then that's something else altogether, but this is up there with spraying someone with a water gun...


have you ever been hit in the face with an egg?

it f*in hurts even when its accidental
B
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsB:
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
RE: Free speech...

If the likes of Griffin can get away with saying what he wants... then surely the converse is also true... i.e. you can say what you want about him and his party, as that's just your right to free speech after all... or does it only apply to one side now?


Free speech is one thing...violence (throwing objects at people with the intention to injure is violence, surely?) is another...or is violence ok if you are aiming it at a member of the BNP??


How much damage are you going to do with an egg?

Oh noes, think of the dry cleaning bills... Although that'll probably be claimed for... Laugh

If we're talking something that could actually hurt, then that's something else altogether, but this is up there with spraying someone with a water gun...


have you ever been hit in the face with an egg?

it f*in hurts even when its accidental


Yep.

I've also been shot with a paintball gun, now that's something that hurts AND leaves a mark.

The egg was tame.
disley21
quote:
Originally posted by Lockes no 1 fan:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
quote:
Originally posted by Lockes no 1 fan:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsB:
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
RE: Free speech...

If the likes of Griffin can get away with saying what he wants... then surely the converse is also true... i.e. you can say what you want about him and his party, as that's just your right to free speech after all... or does it only apply to one side now?


Free speech is one thing...violence (throwing objects at people with the intention to injure is violence, surely?) is another...or is violence ok if you are aiming it at a member of the BNP??



sorry but YES


which of course makes you a thug no better than what you are saying about the bnp.




if throwing eggs at nick griffin makes me a thug then so be it Smiler


well you have to admit that what you are supporting could best be described as fascist or stalinist, which is being used against a democraticly elected mep, i guess that makes you anti democratic too.
B
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsB:
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
RE: Free speech...

If the likes of Griffin can get away with saying what he wants... then surely the converse is also true... i.e. you can say what you want about him and his party, as that's just your right to free speech after all... or does it only apply to one side now?


Free speech is one thing...violence (throwing objects at people with the intention to injure is violence, surely?) is another...or is violence ok if you are aiming it at a member of the BNP??


How much damage are you going to do with an egg?

Oh noes, think of the dry cleaning bills... Although that'll probably be claimed for... Laugh

If we're talking something that could actually hurt, then that's something else altogether, but this is up there with spraying someone with a water gun...


I agree an egg is not particularly dangerous, which then begs the question, why bother??? All the egg thrower is doing is making themselves look silly and ineloquent...I understand the whole implication of 'egg on his face' etc, but at the end of the day, there are far more adult ways of getting your point across and, shock horror, of being taken seriously....
MrsB
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsB:
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
RE: Free speech...

If the likes of Griffin can get away with saying what he wants... then surely the converse is also true... i.e. you can say what you want about him and his party, as that's just your right to free speech after all... or does it only apply to one side now?


Free speech is one thing...violence (throwing objects at people with the intention to injure is violence, surely?) is another...or is violence ok if you are aiming it at a member of the BNP??


How much damage are you going to do with an egg?

Oh noes, think of the dry cleaning bills... Although that'll probably be claimed for... Laugh

If we're talking something that could actually hurt, then that's something else altogether, but this is up there with spraying someone with a water gun...


have you ever been hit in the face with an egg?

it f*in hurts even when its accidental


Yep.

I've also been shot with a paintball gun, now that's something that hurts AND leaves a mark.

The egg was tame.


well yes compared to a paintball it is, but even the stupid idiots "protesting" arent that stupid to pull a gun in front of the houses of parliament, if they did then they would get what they deserved.
B
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
quote:
Originally posted by StGeorgina:
I hate the fact that everything is so damn one-sided in this country, and a majority are cool with that.

This should work both ways. If Nick Griffins hate speech is to be censored, then the police and the public in general need to STOP accepting hate speech when done under the guise of religion.

Soldiers returning from Iraq being abused and receiving death threats, for instance, is disgusting and offensive behaviour, and yet it was tolerated for the mostpart.

A bigger insult on top of that would be that a couple of folks who retaliated were automatically arrested.

I do not take people too seriously if they lambast the likes of Nick Griffin, whilst allowing the likes of Abu Hamza to freely spew his extremism.

I may have only given a couple of examples, but the failure to treat all hatred with equal contempt is something which regularly disheartens me.


i do agree with most of what you say and you do give plenty of disgusting examples but surely to defend the right of even the most disgusting in society is still the right thing to do, let them hang themselves by allowing them to be heard instead of making heroes out of them.


I was speaking regarding those who wish to take free speech away from the likes of Nick Griffin, but at the same time they do not speak out in the same way when another group try and oppress someone else.

Personally I am not for censorship, people tend to hang themselves pretty well and those who do not realise that free speech comes with a degree of responsibility tend to burn out pretty quick.

I find it a tad inconsistent for those who are condemning Nick Griffin not to also condemn other fanatics, this is my point. Appeasers make me pretty sick.

When one's politics replace ones sense of decency, it ceases to impress me.

Nick Griffin should be allowed to speak, no amount of egg throwing will alter the fact that he is now an elected MEP, and the reasons that was allowed to happen is down to all those who favoured apathy over making a stand. Running up the street with placards and half a dozen sodding free range eggs is pointless.
StGeorgina
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:


which of course makes you a thug no better than what you are saying about the bnp.


weeell i wouldnt call myself a "thug" exactly,
but I also think that sometimes and on SOME occasions violence needs doing,...especially when I see old film footage of concentration camps, and cattle trucks full of men women and children whose only crime was to be of the wrong race/religion/sexual orientation/ political group/ physical or mental state,etc etc

and then when faced with the type of person who either denies that this happened or agrees that it was the RIGHT thing to do,
( I dont CARE what the BNP SAY they stand for)

cause I have seen the video of Nick admitting that he is LYING just to get the people to vote for him and that when they get in power "things will change"
so yeah I HIS case I WOULD make an exception, Nod
old hippy guy
There's a long standing tradition of throwing eggs or flour at politicians so I think should be seen in that light. However, and I bet this is not going to be a generally popular view, I don't think it is right to censor him.

Not only is he one of the representatives of 900,000+ voters in the European Parliament, he is also entitled as a private individual to go about his lawful business unmolested.

If the police were around at the time then they should have kept the protestors at a reasonable distance for starters. Those of us who are interested in what he has to say should also be able to listen even if we disagree with his views. Otherwise, it's all done on hearsay and distant reputation.

Right, there's my liberal duty done. Nick Griffin is, of course, a twat despite all this. Smiler
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Bigdaddyostrich:
Well I'm glad to see the people taking to the street in protest.

Concerns me that they get so excited about an essential nonentity like Griffin, when a far more anti-democratic and dangerous dictatorial type who continues to possess the power to cause real damage remains un-egged.

Eggs for Browngabe and Zanulabour-PF!


thats a whole different story.

anyway its der brownfurer whose party is funding many of these pathetic little mini hitlers at local level with community grants.
B
quote:
Originally posted by StGeorgina:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
quote:
Originally posted by StGeorgina:
I hate the fact that everything is so damn one-sided in this country, and a majority are cool with that.

This should work both ways. If Nick Griffins hate speech is to be censored, then the police and the public in general need to STOP accepting hate speech when done under the guise of religion.

Soldiers returning from Iraq being abused and receiving death threats, for instance, is disgusting and offensive behaviour, and yet it was tolerated for the mostpart.

A bigger insult on top of that would be that a couple of folks who retaliated were automatically arrested.

I do not take people too seriously if they lambast the likes of Nick Griffin, whilst allowing the likes of Abu Hamza to freely spew his extremism.

I may have only given a couple of examples, but the failure to treat all hatred with equal contempt is something which regularly disheartens me.


i do agree with most of what you say and you do give plenty of disgusting examples but surely to defend the right of even the most disgusting in society is still the right thing to do, let them hang themselves by allowing them to be heard instead of making heroes out of them.


I was speaking regarding those who wish to take free speech away from the likes of Nick Griffin, but at the same time they do not speak out in the same way when another group try and oppress someone else.

Personally I am not for censorship, people tend to hang themselves pretty well and those who do not realise that free speech comes with a degree of responsibility tend to burn out pretty quick.

I find it a tad inconsistent for those who are condemning Nick Griffin not to also condemn other fanatics, this is my point. Appeasers make me pretty sick.

When one's politics replace ones sense of decency, it ceases to impress me.

Nick Griffin should be allowed to speak, no amount of egg throwing will alter the fact that he is now an elected MEP, and the reasons that was allowed to happen is down to all those who favoured apathy over making a stand. Running up the street with placards and half a dozen sodding free range eggs is pointless.


oh, then we do agree completely, sorry.
B
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel J*:
There's a long standing tradition of throwing eggs or flour at politicians so I think should be seen in that light. However, and I bet this is not going to be a generally popular view, I don't think it is right to censor him.

Not only is he one of the representatives of 900,000+ voters in the European Parliament, he is also entitled as a private individual to go about his lawful business unmolested.

If the police were around at the time then they should have kept the protestors at a reasonable distance for starters. Those of us who are interested in what he has to say should also be able to listen even if we disagree with his views. Otherwise, it's all done on hearsay and distant reputation.

Right, there's my liberal duty done. Nick Griffin is, of course, a twat despite all this. Smiler


I agree with all of that.

Pity he didn't react like Prescott: have a real set-to Laugh
bigdaddyostrich
quote:
Originally posted by Bigdaddyostrich:
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel J*:
There's a long standing tradition of throwing eggs or flour at politicians so I think should be seen in that light. However, and I bet this is not going to be a generally popular view, I don't think it is right to censor him.

Not only is he one of the representatives of 900,000+ voters in the European Parliament, he is also entitled as a private individual to go about his lawful business unmolested.

If the police were around at the time then they should have kept the protestors at a reasonable distance for starters. Those of us who are interested in what he has to say should also be able to listen even if we disagree with his views. Otherwise, it's all done on hearsay and distant reputation.

Right, there's my liberal duty done. Nick Griffin is, of course, a twat despite all this. Smiler


I agree with all of that.

Pity he didn't react like Prescott: have a real set-to Laugh


could you imagine the press if he had?
B
quote:
Originally posted by StGeorgina:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
quote:
Originally posted by StGeorgina:
I hate the fact that everything is so damn one-sided in this country, and a majority are cool with that.

This should work both ways. If Nick Griffins hate speech is to be censored, then the police and the public in general need to STOP accepting hate speech when done under the guise of religion.

Soldiers returning from Iraq being abused and receiving death threats, for instance, is disgusting and offensive behaviour, and yet it was tolerated for the mostpart.

A bigger insult on top of that would be that a couple of folks who retaliated were automatically arrested.

I do not take people too seriously if they lambast the likes of Nick Griffin, whilst allowing the likes of Abu Hamza to freely spew his extremism.

I may have only given a couple of examples, but the failure to treat all hatred with equal contempt is something which regularly disheartens me.


i do agree with most of what you say and you do give plenty of disgusting examples but surely to defend the right of even the most disgusting in society is still the right thing to do, let them hang themselves by allowing them to be heard instead of making heroes out of them.


I was speaking regarding those who wish to take free speech away from the likes of Nick Griffin, but at the same time they do not speak out in the same way when another group try and oppress someone else.

Personally I am not for censorship, people tend to hang themselves pretty well and those who do not realise that free speech comes with a degree of responsibility tend to burn out pretty quick.

I find it a tad inconsistent for those who are condemning Nick Griffin not to also condemn other fanatics, this is my point. Appeasers make me pretty sick.

When one's politics replace ones sense of decency, it ceases to impress me.

Nick Griffin should be allowed to speak, no amount of egg throwing will alter the fact that he is now an elected MEP, and the reasons that was allowed to happen is down to all those who favoured apathy over making a stand. Running up the street with placards and half a dozen sodding free range eggs is pointless.


Show me a fanatic, no matter what side of the coin they're on, and I'll criticise them.

This thread is about one fanatic in particular though...
disley21
quote:
Originally posted by old hippy guy:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:


which of course makes you a thug no better than what you are saying about the bnp.


weeell i wouldnt call myself a "thug" exactly,
but I also think that sometimes and on SOME occasions violence needs doing,...especially when I see old film footage of concentration camps, and cattle trucks full of men women and children whose only crime was to be of the wrong race/religion/sexual orientation/ political group/ physical or mental state,etc etc

and then when faced with the type of person who either denies that this happened or agrees that it was the RIGHT thing to do,
( I dont CARE what the BNP SAY they stand for)

cause I have seen the video of Nick admitting that he is LYING just to get the people to vote for him and that when they get in power "things will change"
so yeah I HIS case I WOULD make an exception, Nod



well said...
Lockes
quote:
Originally posted by StGeorgina:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
quote:
Originally posted by StGeorgina:
I hate the fact that everything is so damn one-sided in this country, and a majority are cool with that.

This should work both ways. If Nick Griffins hate speech is to be censored, then the police and the public in general need to STOP accepting hate speech when done under the guise of religion.

Soldiers returning from Iraq being abused and receiving death threats, for instance, is disgusting and offensive behaviour, and yet it was tolerated for the mostpart.

A bigger insult on top of that would be that a couple of folks who retaliated were automatically arrested.

I do not take people too seriously if they lambast the likes of Nick Griffin, whilst allowing the likes of Abu Hamza to freely spew his extremism.

I may have only given a couple of examples, but the failure to treat all hatred with equal contempt is something which regularly disheartens me.


i do agree with most of what you say and you do give plenty of disgusting examples but surely to defend the right of even the most disgusting in society is still the right thing to do, let them hang themselves by allowing them to be heard instead of making heroes out of them.


I was speaking regarding those who wish to take free speech away from the likes of Nick Griffin, but at the same time they do not speak out in the same way when another group try and oppress someone else.

Personally I am not for censorship, people tend to hang themselves pretty well and those who do not realise that free speech comes with a degree of responsibility tend to burn out pretty quick.

I find it a tad inconsistent for those who are condemning Nick Griffin not to also condemn other fanatics, this is my point. Appeasers make me pretty sick.

When one's politics replace ones sense of decency, it ceases to impress me.

Nick Griffin should be allowed to speak, no amount of egg throwing will alter the fact that he is now an elected MEP, and the reasons that was allowed to happen is down to all those who favoured apathy over making a stand. Running up the street with placards and half a dozen sodding free range eggs is pointless.


With you there, St Georgina.
MrsB
quote:
Originally posted by Bigdaddyostrich:
Well I'm glad to see the people taking to the street in protest.

Concerns me that they get so excited about an essential nonentity like Griffin, when a far more anti-democratic and dangerous dictatorial type who continues to possess the power to cause real damage remains un-egged.

Eggs for Browngabe and Zanulabour-PF!


Indeed Nod
Gel
quote:
Originally posted by disley21:
quote:
Originally posted by StGeorgina:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
quote:
Originally posted by StGeorgina:
I hate the fact that everything is so damn one-sided in this country, and a majority are cool with that.

This should work both ways. If Nick Griffins hate speech is to be censored, then the police and the public in general need to STOP accepting hate speech when done under the guise of religion.

Soldiers returning from Iraq being abused and receiving death threats, for instance, is disgusting and offensive behaviour, and yet it was tolerated for the mostpart.

A bigger insult on top of that would be that a couple of folks who retaliated were automatically arrested.

I do not take people too seriously if they lambast the likes of Nick Griffin, whilst allowing the likes of Abu Hamza to freely spew his extremism.

I may have only given a couple of examples, but the failure to treat all hatred with equal contempt is something which regularly disheartens me.


i do agree with most of what you say and you do give plenty of disgusting examples but surely to defend the right of even the most disgusting in society is still the right thing to do, let them hang themselves by allowing them to be heard instead of making heroes out of them.


I was speaking regarding those who wish to take free speech away from the likes of Nick Griffin, but at the same time they do not speak out in the same way when another group try and oppress someone else.

Personally I am not for censorship, people tend to hang themselves pretty well and those who do not realise that free speech comes with a degree of responsibility tend to burn out pretty quick.

I find it a tad inconsistent for those who are condemning Nick Griffin not to also condemn other fanatics, this is my point. Appeasers make me pretty sick.

When one's politics replace ones sense of decency, it ceases to impress me.

Nick Griffin should be allowed to speak, no amount of egg throwing will alter the fact that he is now an elected MEP, and the reasons that was allowed to happen is down to all those who favoured apathy over making a stand. Running up the street with placards and half a dozen sodding free range eggs is pointless.


Show me a fanatic, no matter what side of the coin they're on, and I'll criticise them.

This thread is about one fanatic in particular though...


i though this thread was about a bunch of fanatics denying the right of free speech of an elected mep and turning him into a martyr.

in fact, yes it was, then the supporters of the anti democratic fascists/stalinist thugs started posting in this thread.
B
quote:
Originally posted by old hippy guy:
oooer...I just went a youtubing...and found a BNP video etc...and in the comments someone has posted Nick the Nazis home address AND phone number!!!

ooohh what mischief could be done..I copied it and kept it...just for future reference ya understand Wink




oooerrrrrr Eeker Eeker post the link.....just for research purposes Wink
Lockes

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