@Saint posted:Taking a knee
Fed up of UK copying USA trends
Civil obedience and token gestures
Virtue signalling
@Dame_Ann_Average posted:
Thank goodness I don't live in your head...so your greedy scamming aunt is the reason food banks don't work and everyone else in genuine need should do without because your aunt doesn't have any morals....this is why we are where we are today. I know people who have used food banks, I know people who volunteer in food banks ..try it and then have the same opinion, there again you can stick to reading the daily mail.
Bit harsh on Renton there Dame....you are both entitled to your own opinions just as I am entitled to mine.
All services can be abused.My daughter who works and is well paid is loosely connected to the care sector, she was advised that she could claim all the benefits,discount etc of being an essential worker.....but she thought it ridiculous and that she wasn't entitled and wouldn't do that. Her friend however,in similar circumstances claimed the lot....
so, in my opinion services are abused...it's the system that's at fault
@Baz posted:At the risk of getting jumped on from a great height
....I donât think Renton was saying that there shouldnât be food banks and free school meals ...at least I hope he wasnât . I think the point he was trying to make ....and in this I agree with him....is that services should be reserved for those in the most need . No one can argue that there arenât people who abuse the system ....a system that is stretched almost beyond itâs limits ....which in turn means that often those who need it most are left out
As one of those classed vulnerable by the powers that be I was given a phone number for assistance with things like shopping , or medications ....Iâve never used it cos I can get by on my own . As for Rashford he did a good thing , but should he really get more praise ( and press coverage) than the thousands and thousands of other, not so privileged , people who have gone above and beyond what was expected of them in this crisis ....not in my book he shouldnât .
As you know, Iâm shielding and in the early days I got a call from a lovely young chap from my local council. He let me know I could claim a free weekly box of food; get priority online shopping slots; and have someone do shopping or pick up prescriptions for me. I thanked him but told him I was fortunate that I had family who could help with the prescriptions etc and I wasnât in need of free food and I knew there were other people more in need of the service than me.
However, I know there are people who have taken those free food parcels who did not need them and that annoys me. Just because you are entitled to something doesnât mean you have to take it.
@Saint posted:@Baz this is exactly what i mean
My aunt so wrong to take that food but the food bank keep offering so i wonder how well the food is offered to the correct people. Same for breakfast clubs - anyone can go - it should be for those in need not for those in need to off load their kids so they can go to work.
So many people give their lives to charitable causes, Rashford is canonised for a few tweets while he spends hideous amounts on cars he doesn't need. This hero worship for minimal input (in comparison) is annoying
In Scotland, all nursery and Primary 1-3 children receive free school meals.
My grandchildren and the majority of the children in their nursery and school are not âin needâ of free school meals.
And donât get me started on the Baby Boxes the SNP doled out to all new mothers, regardless of need. One of the Scottish newspapers ran a story of how loads of them were ending up in charity shops because they were unwanted.
Surely that money could be better spent on those who are in need.
Morning
Baz, I certainly didn't read it as you read it, but that is a matter of opinion. If Renton hadn't used the word what our taxes are paying for I maybe would have looked on it differently. The phrase implies he's annoyed at our taxes being used in this manner. Plus, the parcel his aunt received is due to the Covid-19 crisis and not from a food bank that serves many thousands of low paid, zero contracted, sanctioned people.
I may have been harsh with Renton, but I am totally astounded that this should even be a subject of debate. I agree all things are abused from the top down. I certainly don't see how school vouchers can be abused, only families on less than ÂĢ7.400 per annum can apply. Seriously, ÂĢ7,400 a year and people are moaning about our taxes being used to feed these children.... I may have been harsh, but much more I'm appalled.
I know absolutely nothing about Marcus Rashford, never heard of him until now. I am just pleased he spoke out, I don't begrudge people making money, I do begrudge footballers wages, but what's he supposed to do when every other player is on insane wages. I know nothing about how much money he gives to charity and wouldn't assume to, I do know that he spoke from the heart about his own mothers struggles, he seemed a caring young guy.
Renton, I said in my reply to you, carers deserve all the help they can get. I never said your parents didn't pay their taxes, I used the term because you had used it when talking about the poorest children in society getting food vouchers, the system is there to help those who need it in whatever form. I never claimed attendance allowance for my parents, simply because at that time I was financially stable enough not to.
If it was just Rashford you were pissed off about, why have a go at food banks and breakfast clubs, by the way, working families pay for it in my town at ÂĢ2 a day, or that's what it was the last time my daughter had to use it. It was a ÂĢ1 a day when my grandsons were in infant school 4 years ago, I know because I used to pay it and 30 pence for drinks. I don't know if all schools work it differently, but the benefits from breakfast clubs are immense.
Like you say, were all entitled to our opinion and I'm just totally gobsmacked at the reaction to children being allowed to be fed I'm quite sure some of these children will still go unfed through selfish parents, I would like to think the vast majority will at least have one meal a day and now I'm out of here now, have a good day 
@Dame_Ann_Average I do think we were at crossed wires
Foodbank - I disagree totally with my aunt - my point is i fear they are not identifying 'only' those in need.
And so they may be offering an inaccurate view of poverty ... not that it doesn't exist, just the scale may be ill judged. perhaps.
School meal - i do not begrudge the Welfare system at all, I'm all for it. For the poorest - it must be there
I'm not for Breakfast Clubs where anyone can attend - am I correct in thinking it's free to all?
If so it's wrong because, again, it's not giving to those in need and I don't agree with taxes being spent so (potentially affluent) parents can leave their kids at school so they can go to work.
Rashford - it's the hero worship for so little input that grinds.
Some people dedicate their lives to good causes and are overlooked - he only said what we all think and is lauded
He so concerned about poverty he has a fleet of luxury cars - in one way it's a bit obscene to talk about hungry kids then drive off in your ÂĢ100k Range Rover.
I hope that clears things up cos the thread is a little tongue in cheek and though you may never believe me ... it's not meant to offend
. . . .and just to let you know that i'm a really lovely person at heart 
I worked as a Samaritan for three years and volunteered for the Red Cross for two years
It showed me true suffering and how being there can literally save people
Dame....as you know I sit neither on right or left of the political debate....and I have no problem with deprived kids getting free school meals....it was just telling Renton to go and read the Daily Mail that I felt was a bit harsh
I also had a similar experience to Yogi...my husband has a condition that meant we had to be careful. I had a hospital appt as lockdown hit and a dilemma whether to attend or not. Offshoot was, that I rang up and pushed the minor but necessary op back,citing my reasons. That afternoon the council rang me offering to supply everything I needed, which I declined because I didn't need them....the phone call lasted 15 mins ecause he tried to make me accept because I was entitled. In my mind I wasn't, surely the council have some sort of register for families on social help that could do with the benefits, I certainly don't.
dont want to fall out with you over this, I know you are passionate about your politics which I am not...I think sticks and wrong end of are working their way through us all.âĪïļ
@Saint posted:@Dame_Ann_Average I do think we were at crossed wires
Foodbank - I disagree totally with my aunt - my point is i fear they are not identifying 'only' those in need.
And so they may be offering an inaccurate view of poverty ... not that it doesn't exist, just the scale may be ill judged. perhaps.
School meal - i do not begrudge the Welfare system at all, I'm all for it. For the poorest - it must be there
I'm not for Breakfast Clubs where anyone can attend - am I correct in thinking it's free to all?
If so it's wrong because, again, it's not giving to those in need and I don't agree with taxes being spent so (potentially affluent) parents can leave their kids at school so they can go to work.
Rashford - it's the hero worship for so little input that grinds.
Some people dedicate their lives to good causes and are overlooked - he only said what we all think and is lauded
He so concerned about poverty he has a fleet of luxury cars - in one way it's a bit obscene to talk about hungry kids then drive off in your ÂĢ100k Range Rover.
I hope that clears things up cos the thread is a little tongue in cheek and though you may never believe me ... it's not meant to offend
Saint, the Covid food packs have nothing to do with poverty, it's more to do with making sure isolated vulnerable people get all they need. I do agree however your aunt took the pee.
School meal vouchers, like I stated are only available for people with a household income per annum of ÂĢ7, 400 so can't be taken advantage of, that was the thing that upset me 
When I was working I would happily pay extra taxes to see all children fed, healthy and happy, sadly that's a fantasy. Breakfast clubs here are open to all, like working parents pay and if teachers are happy to allow parents to drop their children off I really don't have a problem with that. It's been proven breakfast clubs in school are a great benefit to kids poor or not .....
Finally, I do not and never have thought you were a bad person, I am neither a sulk nor a grudge holder...I said I didn't agree with you and whether you agree with me is neither here nor there...it's done 
Oh and I don't care about Marcus Rashford, I'm just pleased with his clout on social media it worked
@Kaytee posted:Dame....as you know I sit neither on right or left of the political debate....and I have no problem with deprived kids getting free school meals....it was just telling Renton to go and read the Daily Mail that I felt was a bit harsh
I also had a similar experience to Yogi...my husband has a condition that meant we had to be careful. I had a hospital appt as lockdown hit and a dilemma whether to attend or not. Offshoot was, that I rang up and pushed the minor but necessary op back,citing my reasons. That afternoon the council rang me offering to supply everything I needed, which I declined because I didn't need them....the phone call lasted 15 mins ecause he tried to make me accept because I was entitled. In my mind I wasn't, surely the council have some sort of register for families on social help that could do with the benefits, I certainly don't.
dont want to fall out with you over this, I know you are passionate about your politics which I am not...I think sticks and wrong end of are working their way through us all.âĪïļ
Kaytee, I honestly did not mean that as an insult, any news links Saint posts on here are from the Daily Mail and that is why I never read them ...
I agree a lot of people claim for stuff out of greed and a lot claim because of need, clamping down is difficult as we have seen it can cause great injustices to those that really need it the most. I would have done exactly what you have and refused help, I did when my mother was alive because we didn't need it. 
@Kaytee posted:Virtue signalling
It seems a harmless gesture of support, sympathy and respect for the victims (and their establishment disadvantaged descendants) of a vile trade that subjugated millions, murdered hundreds of thousands and subjected hundreds of thousands to maim and rape.
I don't like this phrase, 'virtue signaling' it's used to shut down liberal opinion as it's always applied to the left and liberals, but never to the right-wing where it is every bit as appropriate
IMO, if you want "virtue signaling" then take a look at our oafish pound shop Churchill PM who 'virtue signals' to his own gallery of Home Counties racists, pseudo-intellectual white supremacists and football firm thugs who chant "Boris Boris Boris" and urinate next to memorials to police officers who died in the line of duty against terrorism.
Our history has been airbrushed. It's not good enough to dismiss people as showing "liberal guilt". I've learned a lot I was never told at school about the days of Empire and how its worst points have been airbrushed from the history books. Look up "Churchill's Famine" and you'll see why he's not universally adored as the country's savior.
@Carnelian posted:It seems a harmless gesture of support, sympathy and respect for the victims (and their establishment disadvantaged descendants) of a vile trade that subjugated millions, murdered hundreds of thousands and subjected hundreds of thousands to maim and rape.
I don't like this phrase, 'virtue signaling' it's used to shut down liberal opinion as it's always applied to the left and liberals, but never to the right-wing where it is every bit as appropriate
IMO, if you want "virtue signaling" then take a look at our oafish pound shop Churchill PM who 'virtue signals' to his own gallery of Home Counties racists, pseudo-intellectual white supremacists and football firm thugs who chant "Boris Boris Boris" and urinate next to memorials to police officers who died in the line of duty against terrorism.
Our history has been airbrushed. It's not good enough to dismiss people as showing "liberal guilt". I've learned a lot I was never told at school about the days of Empire and how its worst points have been airbrushed from the history books. Look up "Churchill's Famine" and you'll see why he's not universally adored as the country's savior.
I believe I asked you to ignore my posts as I am ignoring yours.....I have nothing whatsoever to say to you,thanks
@Dame_Ann_Average posted:
Kaytee, I honestly did not mean that as an insult, any news links Saint posts on here are from the Daily Mail and that is why I never read them ...
I agree a lot of people claim for stuff out of greed and a lot claim because of need, clamping down is difficult as we have seen it can cause great injustices to those that really need it the most. I would have done exactly what you have and refused help, I did when my mother was alive because we didn't need it.
As I said...wires crossed....ðððâĪïļâĪïļâĪïļ
@Kaytee posted:I believe I asked you to ignore my posts as I am ignoring yours.....I have nothing whatsoever to say to you,thanks
Did you? I have no idea! Not that I care one way or another. If you put out comments on a public forum you expose them to rebuke. The solution to that is to PM. Like I hinted, "virtue signalling" is a stupid debate terminating cliche used mostly by the right-wing by those who wish to shut down an argument because they haven't the wit to put up a sensible counter-argument.
Rishi Sunak
Grinning his way through a crisis tragedy like he's won a goldfish
Totally in Tony Blair's mold - positive spin in desperate times. We've seen it all before
Post Office this time . . . . and it's not just that the Post Office blamed innocent post masters for stealing money so they could sack them, close the shops and not have to pay them redundancy.
Or that they then transferred all their work to places like the Spar
Or that Paula Vennells is still unapologetic whilst over seeing the whole mess where people's lives were ruined
It now includes them writing to their customers who are unable to go to the Post Office and withdraw their money due to COVID saying they can help.
So i called them 
Isolating - how can you help me
You can nominate someone else to get ya cash
No thanx - Can you transfer my money to another account so i can pay for on line stuff?
No
So how do you claim you can help then?
We can issue you a cheque ... which will have to be taken to a bank and deposited.
But we're isolating
Can't help you then
So the sum total of their "helping our customers during this difficult time" is ... get someone else to get yer money 
@Saint posted:Post Office this time . . . . and it's not just that the Post Office blamed innocent post masters for stealing money so they could sack them, close the shops and not have to pay them redundancy.
Or that they then transferred all their work to places like the Spar
Or that Paula Vennells is still unapologetic whilst over seeing the whole mess where people's lives were ruined
It now includes them writing to their customers who are unable to go to the Post Office and withdraw their money due to COVID saying they can help.
So i called them
Isolating - how can you help me
You can nominate someone else to get ya cash
No thanx - Can you transfer my money to another account so i can pay for on line stuff?
No
So how do you claim you can help then?
We can issue you a cheque ... which will have to be taken to a bank and deposited.
But we're isolating
Can't help you then
So the sum total of their "helping our customers during this difficult time" is ... get someone else to get yer money
Fills you full of confidence doesnât it Sainty?
@Saint posted:Post Office this time . . . . and it's not just that the Post Office blamed innocent post masters for stealing money so they could sack them, close the shops and not have to pay them redundancy.
Or that they then transferred all their work to places like the Spar
Or that Paula Vennells is still unapologetic whilst over seeing the whole mess where people's lives were ruined
It now includes them writing to their customers who are unable to go to the Post Office and withdraw their money due to COVID saying they can help.
So i called them
Isolating - how can you help me
You can nominate someone else to get ya cash
No thanx - Can you transfer my money to another account so i can pay for on line stuff?
No
So how do you claim you can help then?
We can issue you a cheque ... which will have to be taken to a bank and deposited.
But we're isolating
Can't help you then
So the sum total of their "helping our customers during this difficult time" is ... get someone else to get yer money
@Saint posted:It was their utterly dismissive attitude - just terrible
Can you help a bit more than usual was met with "that account doesn't do transfers".
No other help
Thatâs awful Renton No wonder you are angry!
My car insurance went up ÂĢ30 despite never having made a claim
So i shopped around and found one cheaper
Called to cancel the old insurance,
"So you found a cheaper quote - let's see if i can reduce ours.
I can offer you a 79p discount - is that any good?"
@Saint posted:My car insurance went up ÂĢ30 despite never having made a claim
So i shopped around and found one cheaper
Called to cancel the old insurance,
"So you found a cheaper quote - let's see if i can reduce ours.
I can offer you a 79p discount - is that any good?"
Wow ...thatâs some saving ....I hope you accepted it
@Saint posted:My car insurance went up ÂĢ30 despite never having made a claim
So i shopped around and found one cheaper
Called to cancel the old insurance,
"So you found a cheaper quote - let's see if i can reduce ours.
I can offer you a 79p discount - is that any good?"
My insurance company gave me back ÂĢ25 because they said people have been using their cars less, therefore less claims.
@Saint posted:Use of the word "excited"
It's all over You Tube and now being used on TV too
The Earth is like a little village - the locals are making their own entertainment
And stories being sexed up out of nothing to make news
How many times have i heard,
"Staff have been attacked and we live in fear since the lock down"
It's outrageous that unfounded, wild claims are accepted by the BBC as news worthy
Keir ****** Starmer
@Carnelian posted:Keir ****** Starmer
No? you no likey??
@Carnelian posted:Keir ****** Starmer
I donât think heâs too bad .....in fact he might even persuade me to vote Labour again ....maybe , perhaps
Can't want this lot out then. I'd vote any party with a chance to get rid. How much worse could it get?
@velvet donkey posted:Can't want this lot out then. I'd vote any party with a chance to get rid. How much worse could it get?
Donât tempt fate Velvet 
Waiting for Sir Keir to bend the knee (as in Game of Thrones and not take the knee as in BLM) to Rupert Murdoch, like Blair and every single Tory and New Labour MP.
Football on TV without the crowd
So what do they do? Take microphones and point them towards the players
And then apologise every match "if you heard foul language just then accept our apologies".
Well don't point microphones at the players if you know this can happen
Idiots
Why anyone would think this dress is anything other than a joke by the maker. It probably cost a fortune.
@Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
Why anyone would think this dress is anything other than a joke by the maker. It probably cost a fortune.
Itâs joke on a joke