I posted this quote the other day on another thread but I will put it in here again because it is relevant. If only the miners union was working to achieve something for its members instead of seeking to topple the government. Remember this quote is by a Labour leader.
"On June 26 1977, a worried Mr Callaghan told ministers gathered at Chequers - his official country residence - that they were "not dealing with respectable unionism but rent a mob". "If things continue on the present basis there could well be fatalities and in circumstances which might be in danger of bringing the Government down," he warned. Mr Callaghan was particularly concerned about the activities of Mr Scargill whose was organising thousands of miners to join the pickets."
What rights for the miners was Arthur Scargill seeking to improve when he called that strike?
I wonder what Robert Tressell would have made of the continuation of Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. 
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Simply because? No, I don't think so. Think back to the 70s: the Winter of Discontent, the IMF crisis, rampant wage inflation, and so on. The unions, in particular the large, militant ones, were holding the country to ransom. If I recall correctly, UK productivity was dire, relatively speaking. Think of some of the reasons for calling strikes too! Flying pickets. The industrial relations between the labour force and company management. Nah, she wanted monetarism and a radical shakeup and the major unions were standing in her way. They'd already seen off at least two other governments if I recall correctly.
I was agreeing with Dermantoid about the coal and steel being imported from abroad. I'm not debating the rights and wrongs about previous goverments before Thatcher. I do know from first hand experiences how the people on the pickets lines were tormented, how situations esculated due to the police force.
I also know that due to the stamping out of unions workers in our area ( if you are lucky enough to have a job) have very little rights in the workplace. There again that's an whole new deabate, and I do remember high inflation through the tory years and two recessions.
Just because someone hates Margaret Thatcher it doesn't follow that they support either New or Old Labour, Scargill, Communism or the political system as it stands etc etc.
I do wish people would understand that.
I do wish people would understand that.
quote:Originally posted by Garage Joe:
You seem to forget, we were the Unions.
UK productivity dire? Relatively??
I hope that you aren't talking about now.
1. No industry.
2. Having to rely on other countries for food and fuel.
3. Having to rely on a bunch of champagne guzzling cocaine sniffers in the service industries.
etc.
... and breathe.
Why didn't Scargill call a national ballot of mineworkers then? And what about the Nottinghamshire area which broke away from the NUM and formed the UDM because of it?
I'm talking about the 70s, the context which gave rise to Thatcher and the miners' strike in the 80s. However, we have a manufacturing sector now contrary to what the papers would have us believe.
Does she wear a wig?
quote:Originally posted by Veggieburger:
Just because someone hates Margaret Thatcher it doesn't follow that they support either New or Old Labour, Scargill, Communism or the political system as it stands etc etc.
I do wish people would understand that.
Well said Veggie. I believe in socialist principles but I don't blindly follow any political party.
*brings in tea and cucumber butties*
quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
*brings in tea and cucumber butties*
What, no cake?
quote:Originally posted by Queen of the High Teas:quote:Originally posted by Veggieburger:
Just because someone hates Margaret Thatcher it doesn't follow that they support either New or Old Labour, Scargill, Communism or the political system as it stands etc etc.
I do wish people would understand that.
Ditto, it's the Thatcher goverment I detested.
quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
*brings in tea and cucumber butties*
I shall stick my little pinky out! (That's not rude
)
Wow I like this thread.
I liked Maggie although she did get a bit big for her boots towards the end. Same as Tony and New Labour.
I wonder if the next Government will be as hated as Maggie and hers are. Because the next government will make some really radical cuts just to get the country back on its feet and some are going to get hurt by them.
I liked Maggie although she did get a bit big for her boots towards the end. Same as Tony and New Labour.
I wonder if the next Government will be as hated as Maggie and hers are. Because the next government will make some really radical cuts just to get the country back on its feet and some are going to get hurt by them.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by Garage Joe:
You seem to forget, we were the Unions.
UK productivity dire? Relatively??
I hope that you aren't talking about now.
1. No industry.
2. Having to rely on other countries for food and fuel.
3. Having to rely on a bunch of champagne guzzling cocaine sniffers in the service industries.
etc.
... and breathe.
Why didn't Scargill call a national ballot of mineworkers then? And what about the Nottinghamshire area which broke away from the NUM and formed the UDM because of it?
I'm talking about the 70s, the context which gave rise to Thatcher and the miners' strike in the 80s. However, we have a manufacturing sector now contrary to what the papers would have us believe.
1. I had no genuine democratic participation in the decision making process of the miner's Unions.
2. I think we have all read of the dirty tricks involved in the setting up of the so called UDM.
3. I am happy for you that you have a manufacturing sector. There isn't one left here.
4. Does anyone know how to do bullet points.
quote:Originally posted by Queen of the High Teas:
What, no cake?
Sorry
just got it out of the oven now. Save some for me 
quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:quote:Originally posted by Queen of the High Teas:
What, no cake?
Sorry
Ooooh, yes please Lassie. That looks delicious.
quote:Originally posted by Garage Joe:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Daniel J*:
1. I had no genuine democratic participation in the decision making process of the miner's Unions.
2. I think we have all read of the dirty tricks involved in the setting up of the so called UDM.
3. I am happy for you that you have a manufacturing sector. There isn't one left here.
4. Does anyone know how to do bullet points.
I'll throw you out of my clique if you keep arguing.
That's sort of the point about unions, especially in closed shop organisations. To work in some areas, you had to be a member of the union. The Tories got rid of that, as I'm sure you know, as well as force strike ballots. I see that in principle as freeing the workforce from the tyranny of the unions but perhaps you see it differently.
The country has an industry sector, not specifically my local area. Heavy industry has obviously declined but we still have a sizeable industry sector now.
Huh! I go to all this trouble of making everyone, tea, sarnies and cake and you all bugger off
Oh well Hyacinth, more for you and me then
Oh well Hyacinth, more for you and me then
quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Huh! I go to all this trouble of making everyone, tea, sarnies and cake and you all bugger off
Oh well Hyacinth, more for you and me then
I have not, how you say, buggered off.
At the moment I am getting stuff ready for the Post Office.
Painting the hallway.
Drinking tea.
Looking at pictures of Trev's bottom on the internet.
Monitoring the constant fall of MPs on the tellybox.
If I had been a chick, perish the thought, this would be regarded as multi-tasking rather than the truth which is keeping Mrs Joe happy so I might have some chance of getting me leg over. Still, enough about me.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:
Heavy industry has obviously declined but we still have a sizeable industry sector now.
Well good luck to him.
quote:Originally posted by Garage Joe:quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Huh! I go to all this trouble of making everyone, tea, sarnies and cake and you all bugger off
Oh well Hyacinth, more for you and me then
I have not, how you say, buggered off.
At the moment I am getting stuff ready for the Post Office.
Painting the hallway.
Drinking tea.
Looking at pictures of Trev's bottom on the internet.
Monitoring the constant fall of MPs on the tellybox.
If I had been a chick, perish the thought, this would be regarded as multi-tasking rather than the truth which is keeping Mrs Joe happy so I might have some chance of getting me leg over. Still, enough about me.
A chick? Oh dear.
quote:Originally posted by Garage Joe:
I have not, how you say, buggered off.
At the moment I am getting stuff ready for the Post Office.
Painting the hallway.
Drinking tea.
Looking at pictures of Trev's bottom on the internet.
Monitoring the constant fall of MPs on the tellybox.
If I had been a chick, perish the thought, this would be regarded as multi-tasking rather than the truth which is keeping Mrs Joe happy so I might have some chance of getting me leg over. Still, enough about me.
Who's Trev?
quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Huh! I go to all this trouble of making everyone, tea, sarnies and cake and you all bugger off
Oh well Hyacinth, more for you and me then
I was sat sitting here with my empty plate, my little cup of tea and nobody noticed me
Has the cake all gone?quote:Originally posted by squiggle:quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Huh! I go to all this trouble of making everyone, tea, sarnies and cake and you all bugger off
Oh well Hyacinth, more for you and me then
I was sat sitting here with my empty plate, my little cup of tea and nobody noticed me
I left you a bit, well a tiny bit
quote:Originally posted by Garage Joe:quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Huh! I go to all this trouble of making everyone, tea, sarnies and cake and you all bugger off
Oh well Hyacinth, more for you and me then
I have not, how you say, buggered off.
At the moment I am getting stuff ready for the Post Office.
Painting the hallway.
Drinking tea.
Looking at pictures of Trev's bottom on the internet.
Monitoring the constant fall of MPs on the tellybox.
If I had been a chick, perish the thought, this would be regarded as multi-tasking rather than the truth which is keeping Mrs Joe happy so I might have some chance of getting me leg over. Still, enough about me.
Ooooh! Am impressed at Garage Joe's multi-tasking skills!
quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:quote:Originally posted by squiggle:quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Huh! I go to all this trouble of making everyone, tea, sarnies and cake and you all bugger off
Oh well Hyacinth, more for you and me then
I was sat sitting here with my empty plate, my little cup of tea and nobody noticed me
I left you a bit, well a tiny bit
Fank you! (looks sideways at everyone's else's plate)
quote:Originally posted by squiggle:quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:quote:Originally posted by squiggle:quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Huh! I go to all this trouble of making everyone, tea, sarnies and cake and you all bugger off
Oh well Hyacinth, more for you and me then
I was sat sitting here with my empty plate, my little cup of tea and nobody noticed me
I left you a bit, well a tiny bit
Fank you! (looks sideways at everyone's else's plate)
Oy, take the cake off a pregnant lady would ya?
quote:Originally posted by Queen of the High Teas:quote:Originally posted by squiggle:quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:quote:Originally posted by squiggle:quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Huh! I go to all this trouble of making everyone, tea, sarnies and cake and you all bugger off
Oh well Hyacinth, more for you and me then
I was sat sitting here with my empty plate, my little cup of tea and nobody noticed me
I left you a bit, well a tiny bit
Fank you! (looks sideways at everyone's else's plate)
Oy, take the cake off a pregnant lady would ya?
Ooh er sorry!
Thatcher wis an old cow
quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Huh! I go to all this trouble of making everyone, tea, sarnies and cake and you all bugger off
Oh well Hyacinth, more for you and me then
Oh goody, goody. I do so love an extra slice Lassie.
quote:Originally posted by Tam:
Thatcher wis an old cow
Oi, that's well insulting
to the cow
How fitting that a thread called 'Margaret Thatcher' should result in a meeting of the forum W.I.
quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by Garage Joe:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Daniel J*:
1. I had no genuine democratic participation in the decision making process of the miner's Unions.
2. I think we have all read of the dirty tricks involved in the setting up of the so called UDM.
3. I am happy for you that you have a manufacturing sector. There isn't one left here.
4. Does anyone know how to do bullet points.
I'll throw you out of my clique if you keep arguing.
That's sort of the point about unions, especially in closed shop organisations. To work in some areas, you had to be a member of the union. The Tories got rid of that, as I'm sure you know, as well as force strike ballots. I see that in principle as freeing the workforce from the tyranny of the unions but perhaps you see it differently.
The country has an industry sector, not specifically my local area. Heavy industry has obviously declined but we still have a sizeable industry sector now.
yeah and not long AFTER she got rid of the "closed shop" (I was NEVER a suppoter of rhe closed shop BTW)
I was SACKED on the spot, just for asking if there was a union at the new job I had just started, "we dont need YOUR sort here" was all the boss had to say, cause I had NO employment rights either, thanks to "good old" maggie, cause she had just changed the laws protecting workers employment rights from 3 months to 2 YEARS before you had any, basicaly allowing bosses to hire n fire as they felt like without having to give a reason untill you had worked there for 2 YEARS,
one place I worked used to lay EVERYONE OFF when their contract of employment was getting close to 2 years, they would then wait a few weeks and offer you your job back, of course you then had to wait ANOTHER 2 years before you got your FULL employment rights, when guess what? 1 year and 10 months later it would be
yeah she was GREAT,
quote:Originally posted by Mazzystar:
How fitting that a thread called 'Margaret Thatcher' should result in a meeting of the forum W.I.
Oooh I say
OHG - I sent you a pm hun
quote:Originally posted by old hippy guy:quote:Originally posted by Daniel J*:quote:Originally posted by Garage Joe:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Daniel J*:
1. I had no genuine democratic participation in the decision making process of the miner's Unions.
2. I think we have all read of the dirty tricks involved in the setting up of the so called UDM.
3. I am happy for you that you have a manufacturing sector. There isn't one left here.
4. Does anyone know how to do bullet points.
I'll throw you out of my clique if you keep arguing.
That's sort of the point about unions, especially in closed shop organisations. To work in some areas, you had to be a member of the union. The Tories got rid of that, as I'm sure you know, as well as force strike ballots. I see that in principle as freeing the workforce from the tyranny of the unions but perhaps you see it differently.
The country has an industry sector, not specifically my local area. Heavy industry has obviously declined but we still have a sizeable industry sector now.
yeah and not long AFTER she got rid of the "closed shop" (I was NEVER a suppoter of rhe closed shop BTW)
I was SACKED on the spot, just for asking if there was a union at the new job I had just started, "we dont need YOUR sort here" was all the boss had to say, cause I had NO employment rights either, thanks to "good old" maggie, cause she had just changed the laws protecting workers employment rights from 3 months to 2 YEARS before you had any, basicaly allowing bosses to hire n fire as they felt like without having to give a reason untill you had worked there for 2 YEARS,
one place I worked used to lay EVERYONE OFF when their contract of employment was getting close to 2 years, they would then wait a few weeks and offer you your job back, of course you then had to wait ANOTHER 2 years before you got your FULL employment rights, when guess what? 1 year and 10 months later it would be
yeah she was GREAT,
It was common practice here a few years back to do that.Its only because we went so long without a recession that employers stopped doing it.
quote:Originally posted by Veggieburger:
OHG - I sent you a pm hun
oh right...erm.... now then where..... the...s ok I will figure it out hehe
seen it and replied veggie
quote:Originally posted by Liverpoollass:quote:Originally posted by Mazzystar:
How fitting that a thread called 'Margaret Thatcher' should result in a meeting of the forum W.I.
Oooh I say
I'm more worried about you getting together and making a calender!!!
Just dropping off some scones.Even card carrying lefties bake you know!Thats one thing Maggie didnt take away from me!
quote:Originally posted by Mazzystar:
How fitting that a thread called 'Margaret Thatcher' should result in a meeting of the forum W.I.
It's all Jam and Jerusalem.
quote:Originally posted by Mazzystar:
It was common practice here a few years back to do that.Its only because we went so long without a recession that employers stopped doing it.
yip IF I had a pound for every time I heard a boss say
"if you dont like it there are plenty on the dole waiting to take your place"
I would have.....oh.... 8 quid?