We've wiped out billions for the banks, 20k is peanuts.

You have a good point Cologne LOL. 

Golden rule:  no debt 

Not after the Dave Courtney incident anyway  

but wouldn't that work the same if he filed for bankruptcy ? .... I'm almost certain, if you file for bankruptcy, all your debt is written off .... but it's something like 7 yrs before you can apply for any kind of credit again.

We have no debt either Velvet.  Used to have but gradually paid it off.  I won't go into the whys and wherefores, but we are much much happier debt free. 

and yes, it is a disgrace ..... no wonder people get the wrong idea ..... sqander like a good un for years & just get the whole shabang written off

Well yes this is true Angel, that the same would happen if you filed for bankruptcy, but from what I can gather, this man just pulled some tricks out of a hat and took it to court, and won, and from what I can see, there is no penalty like there is if you go bankrupt.  This guy should have at least been made to pay SOME of the debt back.  I mean the man never even bothered to pay a penny of his debt.  He just walks away... I hope there are some restrictions on further borrowing for him...

He was with them for nearly 10 years so he did pay his debt up until he got into financial difficulties. 

How do you know he "squandered" it?   Maybe he was just trying to survive after his salary lowered.  
These companies make millions through high interest rates and default charges. 

It`s off a very broad back so good luck to him I say.

Maybe 'squandered' is a bit harsh a word to use and maybe he did rob peter to pay paul, and I am not saying he is a bad person or an idiot or anything, but what irks me is how he has just got it written off on a technicality, and according to the report, didn't make 'any' payments when he got into financial difficulties.  Even offering a small amount would have been a decent thing to do.  but he offered nothing...

Maybe it just pisses me off, because me and my OH have actually paid everything off that we have ever borrowed.  When we had drops in income and didn't expect to get our debts written off: we learned to live without some of the time, to try and pay back what we had borrowed, and we paid our dues....  I think it's a bit irksome that someone gets into debt and simply gets it written off with seemingly no penalty.. as far as i can gather.  And if this is so, then it's wrong.  He seems like a bit of a freeloader to me.

To be fair this is an exception though, as people do lose possessions, if not their homes, if they fall into debt. His financial difficulties may have been a lot more complex than the information is giving. Maybe he couldn't claim benefits and had to use his card to just keep a roof over his head? Maybe the amount he did manage to pay back while working was enough to cover all of the accrued interest at the time + part payment of the actual borrowed amount?

Not understanding the technicality, as banks will definitiely not lend unless they have a signed agreement to the terms and conditions of which would have included the repayment terms on the same paperwork, so I would reckon there's more to this than meets the eye.

Well yes you make some good points Karma - like Scotty did -  but I am just going on what the report said....  maybe I am just bitter LOL, because nobody wrote off my debts and I had to work to pay them off myself..   but then maybe some people aren't as fortunate as to be able to do that if they lose their jobs.  Some people do just spend spend spend though and expect people to bail them out... I know a few like that myself.

From what i read he didnt get the Terms/Conditions when he took out the card, so thats why the Judge threw out the case.

I'd like to know under what circumstance those Payment Protection Plans actually pay out.  Certainly not in the event of redundancy and unemployment so presumably under some sort of severe hardship like a critical illness.  For the premiums they charge and the actual claims they accept and pay out- which I'd imagine are almost unheard of, it's really a licence to print money.

I think Good Luck to him - would never begrudge someone a bit of luck!

credit card providers are the  supposed experts, and very happy to take the risk of loaning  people money  and making  huge profits from their inflated interest charges, base rate is currently  0.5% they probably pay a point or  two more, but charge  14 - 18 % on average, if they can't  send  out the legally  required paperwok, that ensures the contract is legal, then tough.

I think everyones case is different if a judge wiped out his debt there must have been circumstances in his case that were strongly in his favour,I have always said no to credit cards the interest rates are ridiculously high, I know a few people who have gotten into real trouble with them, I would imagine it could be very  easy to spend with a piece of plastic and get carried away and before you know it ......

20k on a credit card is just dumb.  Whether he just lost his job or not, he was living beyond his means if he needed that much credit in the first place.  I'm so sick of people whinging about their credit cards, when they're the ones who run them up.

Good point Scotty.  Once you get in that much debt with a credit card they charge so much in interest that you don't have a hope of ever getting it paid off.

We all know if you borrow, you pay back. We also all know about Credit Cards and the T&C's....I have debts but am slowly getting them paid off. i would never expect anyone to do that for me, it's my fault, I spent it!!!!

I also have a top credit rating (999-Excellent) with credit Expert, this is because I owe money, i never have missed a payment, eve,r and the lenders see me as a safe  money making option to them.

I.m on a low income, but i manage and consider my car and phone a luxury, not a necessity, most people think they are entitled to have these things. I would have never even consider Bankrupcy when I owed alot more than I do now, or any sort of consolidation plan, I got myself into the mess I was in and I have almost got myself out of it by going without....

True, but they will agree to a payment plan to recover some of the costs...he could've moved it to a low interest card or gone to a debt consolidator for help....£20k on credit cards is alot....mine was nothing like that...IMO he knew what he was doing when he spent it. I did....

Hi DD  
Good to see you ma darlin` 

He's probably going to be better off than if he filed for bancruptcy. His home and any other assets he has like a pension are safe

Well this is the point I was trying to make D.I.D.  If someone racks up 10s of 1000s of pounds just squandering money and then just gets it written off, then that is wrong, because what if we ALL decided to do that?  It's thoroughly irresponsible, and someone, somewhere is going to have to pick up the tab; with interest rates being higher or insurances being higher or whatever.... But as a few have mentioned, we don't know the exact circumstances of this man's case.  And also, there are probably many other cases where people didn't intend for it to happen...

Although I can believe that it is easy to get carried away and some people who are in severe debt have perhaps lived off the cards when their income dropped, and 'robbed peter to pay paul' so to speak, there are some people who just spend spend spend, just to have a better car, fancy exotic holidays, or flashy clothes, or to buy their kids expensive games consoles or fancy named brand products, and then they get into so much trouble that they realise they can't pay it back.  People really do have to take responsibilty for what they spend, but yes it IS easy to not realise how much you're spending and I am guilty of this myself, (although I and hubby have never had anything written off and paid our dues ourselves..) One of my points about that man, is when his income dropped, why did he pay nothing? Sorry, but WE have had drops in income and periods of ill health and have always paid SOMEthing towards our debts (when we had them...)... I really do believe he got his debt written off on a technicality, and from what I can see of this chap's case; I am somewhat annoyed by it... he didn't have to pay his debt because he 'claims' the card company didn't send him the T & Cs...then again, I am only going on what I have read...

Re; the T & Cs and rates etc, I think people really genuinely don't realise how high the payments are going to be, and it's not til it's too late and their debt is unmanageable that they realise.  I mean, when my friend had £10,000 on her credit card a couple of years ago, she was told that if she paid 'just' minimum payment every month, she would take 15 years to pay it off, and that is if she didn't spend anything else on it! 

As I said earlier in my post, I do really believe though, that most people don't do it intentionally, and sit there and think 'I know, I will get a few credit cards and loans and squander til I'm blue in the face and then get it written off...'  it literally does happen without you realising it....  but people do need to be more careful of course.  I really despair of the banks though, and how they have assisted people into getting into such severe debt.  Like throwing loans and credit cards with £10K limits to people who are only just bobbing above water financially anyway....  And  a couple of years ago, our bank was offering borrowing 5 times your joint income as a mortgage!  I know people have a mind of their own, but there is a little voice in their head that says' if they're lending it to me, then it must be OK.'  And people do it. 

What I have never understood, is when the banks said to someone that you can borrow 5 times your salary, (so if your joint income is £30,000 you can borrow £150,000,) people would 'max out' and borrow the highest amount possible.  I mean, why not buy something that cost less?  It's all right borrowing that money when you're earning a lot, but what happens if/when your income drops, due to ill health/disability.job loss/having children (resulting in going part time and having extra mouths to feed and/or childminding fees...)  You can't cope of course, and this is why such a large amount of adults in this country are massively in debt;and most of them are in such a lot of debt, that they will never, ever, ever pay it off...

Have to admit, the jury is out with me.  I know of two people... both friends of mine, who racked up lots of debt.  One was because her and her husband bought a house for like 135 grand about 6 or 7 years ago, (mortgage about 120 grand,) and about a year or so after, she became ill and he lost his job of 13 years and got no redundancy as the company went under, and he took a minimum wage job, and yet they still had the same outgoings.   

One thing after another went wrong with the house, and resulted in them having to borrow money to fix the repairs as they had no other way to get it, and they ended up 'robbing peter to pay paul' as you said, and nothing went on luxuries.  They had one 12 year old car between them, never went out, don't smoke and haven't been on holiday since 2006.  this couple are 45 and have always worked, and they struggled for 3 or 4 years to pay what they owed, the bank said they need to live off their credit card if they can't make ends meet, as they must pay their loan payments....finally after 4 or 5 years of struggling and having NO luxuries, they threw in the towel, and filed for bankruptcy.  They said they had nothing and went nowhere and bought nothing anyway, so even though with bankruptcy, they would be financially restricted, they were anyway.  The *only* difference was, that they would be debt free.  They said it's the best thing they ever did and now only buy things if they have the money and say it is very liberating to have no debt.  And they just rent now so have no ties at all. 

The other friend, had a rented council house in the 90s and bought it on the 'right to buy' in 2003.  So the house was about £65K and she bought it for about £30K.  Her mortgage was peanuts ... Over 5 or 6 years, she had a new car every year, and her husband had a car too, she spent a fortune on her kids and bought them kids tickets for music festivals and concerts and stuff and only bought their clothes from Next, and her food from M & S.   She bought a caravan for £5000 (second hand.)  and bought bikes for £300 at a times, she had 7 tvs and 6 games consoles in her house, went abroad 3 times a year, spent around £100 some weeks on clothes, and bought jewelery a couple of times a month.  She also had takeaways twice a week and spent about £30 a week in the pub and a further £25 on brandy to drink at home...The place she left her caravan by the way, got raided and it got stolen and she had not got it insured! 

Fast forward to 2007: this friend has £50,000 unsecured debt, from really severely overspending and it wasn't 'general living...' she had a very low £200 a month mortgage and her and her husband had full time jobs.. So anyway, she put her house on the market and sold it after a year, and made about £80,000!  She paid off the £50,000 and had £30,000 left, and within 15 months had spent it ALL, (half of it on a flash 4 wheel drive car.)  She then went into private rent.....  Then last summer, she took out a £20,000 loan, and bought another caravan and gave herself a £10,000 'buffer' to go on holiday with and to have a great Christmas, and so she would 'have money to spend when she needs it.'  Since September, the caravan has been in storage because the private let house does not allow it on the driveway!

Totally dense and stupid with no sense of responsibility whatsover.  SHE would not deserve to have it written off.   But my other friend who I mentioned first is a genuine case IMO, and did not ask for or deserve what happened in any way. So each case is different and would have to be taken on it's merits.  SO like I said, the jury is out with me.  As it depends on the circumstances.  From what it says about that fella though, it sounds like he didn't deserve to have it written off.  But if the judge did write it off then I guess there must have been a reason. 
.

OMG that second friend of yours took the piss cupcake.  Especially after getting a right to buy property for such a low price.  With a mortgage like that, she should not even have needed to borrow money for anything!  THAT is the kind of person that would not deserve to have the debt written off.  And even though she sold her right to buy home, she STILL carried on borrowing?!  What the bloody hell does she keep buying caravans for?!  Your first friend sounds like someone who is more deserving of sympathy and undertanding though, and I am glad they still have no debt too, and only buy things when they can afford it.  They obviously learnt from their mistakes, but the first friend clearly hasn't..

Cupcake your first friends are genuine so yes, there are circumstances I guess, BUT, the fella got it wiped of for not receiving his T&Cs....I bet he hadn't scrimped and saved like your first friends....at least they tried first........

The guy got the debt wiped out because he'd kept orderly records of his dealings with the bank, even the initial email offering him the card, which satisfied the judge that if he had received the T & C's he would have kept a record of them.  So the next joe soap who comes in may not necessarily get the debt written off because of their lack of organisational skills.

I don't consider this good luck at all.  I think the guy was a sly cookie and used a small technicality, got a judge on a good day and got away without paying what he owes.  It's no wonder the banks are in the crapper.

My first reaction would be "Yay, well done that man", but if he's a bar steward, then maybe not. 

if I promise to get your credit card debt cleared will you side with me

 Yes!!! 

Just because he didn't have the terms and conditions in print doesn't mean he didn't know them. If he's that organised that he photocopied every bit of documentation since he took out the loan he's obviously quite smart. 

My opinion is if you run up a debt you pay back that debt. Even if it takes you years at reduced payments.

My own experience is that most people in severe financial difficulties are there because shit happened. Redundancy/illness/death/divorce ... suddenly your whole life changes. 

I don't know what caused this man to ratchet up so much debt but I do know how easily it can be done. I went from perfect bank customer to bank pariah in a matter of weeks when my marriage broke up and the household income fell to a third of what it had been with all the same outgoings. What had been an easily manageable household budget became almost impossible. They would rather charge me £180+ in bank charges a month (of COURSE they would) than agree a short term overdraft of say £300. It just got worse and worse the more they charged ...

I'm still serving my time as a bad credit risk even though I have a decent income and aside from that brief period have always paid my way. I reckon I'll be clear in 2013. 

So on that basis NO sympathy for the bank at all.

Some people have said he should have been made to pay half. Well if the finding was that the agreement with the credit card company was executed incorrectly (and the Consumer Credit Act is a highly technical piece of legislation) and not, therefore, binding then it has to follow that ALL the debt is irrecoverable. It's an either/or situation. Had they decided it was a binding agreement then he'd have been lumbered with the whole lot (unless there was some other argument about interest rates).

precisely my point   cariad  although not expressed  so succinctly as yours.

 xx my lovely.

Yes - I think Cariad did a good job there 

Agree with jackson b Cariad; good post and you have my sympathy and respect and I hope all is OK now...  Sounds like you were more like Cupcake's first friend who paid their dues and fell on bad times, and struggled to make ends meet and robbed peter to pay paul and did their best for 4 or 5 years, with no help from the banks, just them demanding their pound of flesh.  And then they realised that the debt was never going to clear and gave up.
 
Of course, there are 'some' that are more like cupcake's second friend who take the piss, spend like money is going out of fashion, take out loan after loan, and then get someone else to bail them out, or pull some trick out of their arse to get it written off.  There are so many differing circumstances that it's hard to judge anything or anyone without knowing the full facts and circumstances of each case first.

Hey J  **mwah**

It was a bit of a ramble tbh.  

Even if he did exploit a loophole - well it's no more than the bank would have done had the tables been turned. And for every punter who can manage it there are thousands more getting shafted by the banks when a little leeway would make all the difference. I know it's a business at the end of the day but the penalties seemed incredibly vindictive to me with no reference to my previous history as a reliable customer.

sparkles - I managed to clear my debts and escaped bloody and bruised fiscally speaking. I did manage my own small victory when I sued the bank over the bank charges they had levied and they coughed up plus interest. That loophole is closed now of course and it was too late to stop my credit rating being hammered but these days I have one emergency credit card which I only tend to use for larger purchases over £100 as that gives me added protection if the purchase is faulty or the service - flights/holiday etc - fails.

Another good post Cariad.    I have highlighted one line because that is something WE had to put up with too when we had financial problems: we had been excellent customers for 20 years, and when we were struggling, they didn't give a shit and said they couldn't do anything to help...it's a long story but we, like you, got out of our debt....with NO help from the bank...  But it made me very bitter and angry that after so long they basically treated us like a number...

So in some ways, it does no harm for the banks to get a bloody nose now and again!  After all, as someone mentioned earlier on I think; the banks have been bailed out with billions of pounds...

We moved banks not long after getting rid of our debts BTW!