quote:

Originally posted by Mazzystar:Sorry Deej,but I disagree.This isnt just a poor risk assessment choice,it's a diabolical one....and yes.they've paid the ultimate price in losing their child.And I dont suppose an inquest into what possessed them to do such a stupid thing will serve nothing.A sure they know.
Parents take calculated risks about their children every day.The first time you let your child cross the road alone,go to school on their own,when,indeed, you leave them in the house alone.All these children have to learn to do at an age appropriate time.Leaving your preschooler at such risk can never be wise.

Well yeah, I don't want to down play their poor judgement. However, I do want to point out that their poor judgement is not exceptional in any way. As I said, I see people every day driving whilst on a mobile phone and often with kids in the back. That they get away with it without killing or injury others almost all of the time doesn't mean it's not dreadfully poor judgement.

Of course, no-one here will admit to driving around in urban areas using a mobile phone, just as no-one ever admits to smacking their kids in anger, but clearly lots of people do. Catastrophe is very rare, whether by losing your kid or crashing your car whilst on the phone and killing someone - possibly your own kids. No-one expects it to happen to them.

Well said Daniel J

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:
I believe both the mother and stepfather are yet to be sentenced concerning Baby P. Aren't they both still in custody and awaiting sentence later this month?

They've been convicted though. Or at least, he has and she pleaded guilty. Sentencing almost always follows later after reports.

Thanks Daniel.

These follow-up reports always take an age don't they? Their rights have to be considered so psychiatric reports etc have to be assessed etc etc etc.

Where were little Baby P's rights - poor little bairn.

I've left my kids in hotel rooms, with a listening service. I've lost kids, through people leaving doors open and kids going exploring. My OH uses the phone with the kids in the car, sometimes.

The McCanns relaxed, took a risk, thought they were being good parents, by getting their kids fed early and not ruining their bedtime routine. They will pay for that risk for the rest of their lives, probably, so I think the fingers should be pointing at whoever took Madeleine.

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:
These follow-up reports always take an age don't they? Their rights have to be considered so psychiatric reports etc have to be assessed etc etc etc.

Where were little Baby P's rights - poor little bairn.

Well, it sounds like Baby P was let down by the authorities before his death but if I'm reading the tone correctly here then I think there's some important stuff to say about rights.

When we say Baby P or anyone else has a 'right to life', what we mean is that people have a right against the state for protection and a duty to each other not to take each other's lives.

The three people involved in Baby P's death reneged on their duty and the state failed to protect his right to life at the crucial times. Baby P has a right to justice and the rest of us have a right to see justice done.

That the three people involved reneged on their duty does not absolve the state of its duty to provide the three with justice and the right for the rest of us to see justice done. Those are different, and still valid, rights and responsibilities.

We're all equal before the law, including people brought before the courts, and the state cannot arbitrarily renege on its duties and stay legitimate. It does no-one any good if, assuming I'm reading the tone correctly, you're implying that the convicted people should not be properly assessed before sentencing like everyone else.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel J*:

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:
These follow-up reports always take an age don't they? Their rights have to be considered so psychiatric reports etc have to be assessed etc etc etc.

Where were little Baby P's rights - poor little bairn.

We're all equal before the law, including people brought before the courts, and the state cannot arbitrarily renege on its duties and stay legitimate. It does no-one any good if, assuming I'm reading the tone correctly, you're implying that the convicted people should not be properly assessed before sentencing like everyone else.

No, that's not what I was implying Daniel - I merely meant it takes such an age between conviction and sentencing because of the various reports which have to be obtained in each individual case. It just generates so much additional paperwork!

I've worked in law all my life, both in crime and litigation, so have seen first-hand how long these things take but, thank the Lord, I have never been involved in a murder trial.

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:
I still feel sorry for Kate and Gerry McCann. We none of us know how much they reproach themselves on a daily basis for the very bad judgment they made that fateful night.

Me too...Jesus it must be unbearable for them.

PSRs can take an age to do. And in the case of Baby P they will want to get it right: the Government can't risk more public outcry.

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:
No, that's not what I was implying Daniel - I merely meant it takes such an age between conviction and sentencing because of the various reports which have to be obtained in each individual case. It just generates so much additional paperwork!

I've worked in law all my life, both in crime and litigation, so have seen first-hand how long these things take but, thank the Lord, I have never been involved in a murder trial.

Oh, okay. Sorry

The Mc Canns should NEVER have left three young children alone in an apartment, no matter if it was 10yd or 100yds away from where they were dining.
They have to live with the consequences for the rest of their lives.I sincerely hope that Madeleine will be found, but fear that the amount of publicity surrounding her abduction may have had dire consequences for the child herself

anyone seen the clip of the video released by the ex detective in charge of the case, where the sniffer dog trained to sniff death, starts hitting on the bed and car ?

quote:

Originally posted by Akaytee:
The Mc Canns should NEVER have left three young children alone in an apartment, no matter if it was 10yd or 100yds away from where they were dining.
They have to live with the consequences for the rest of their lives.I sincerely hope that Madeleine will be found, but fear that the amount of publicity surrounding her abduction may have had dire consequences for the child herself

my thoughs exactly

quote:

Originally posted by Aimee:

quote:

Originally posted by Akaytee:
The Mc Canns should NEVER have left three young children alone in an apartment, no matter if it was 10yd or 100yds away from where they were dining.
They have to live with the consequences for the rest of their lives.I sincerely hope that Madeleine will be found, but fear that the amount of publicity surrounding her abduction may have had dire consequences for the child herself

my thoughs exactly

quote:

A heart surgeon and a GP do it, and we have quite the opposite story.

Gerry Mcann is not a heart surgeon.

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Originally posted by *BB*:

quote:

A heart surgeon and a GP do it, and we have quite the opposite story.

Gerry Mcann is not a heart surgeon.

But he is a control freak.

BOTH of them should face charges of NEGLECT.

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:

quote:

A heart surgeon and a GP do it, and we have quite the opposite story.

Gerry Mcann is not a heart surgeon.

But he is a control freak.

BOTH of them should face charges of NEGLECT.

I assume you know him personally, if not, you can't possible make that statement.

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:

quote:

A heart surgeon and a GP do it, and we have quite the opposite story.

Gerry Mcann is not a heart surgeon.

hi BB
don't think it makes any difference if he is a surgeon or cardiologist or cardiac spr or whatever, i think the point the poster was trying to make was the possibility of double standards within our society

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:

quote:

A heart surgeon and a GP do it, and we have quite the opposite story.

Gerry Mcann is not a heart surgeon.

But he is a control freak.

BOTH of them should face charges of NEGLECT.

The more I see of those two the more I have a very bad feeling about both of them, but I shall say no more.

quote:

Originally posted by jujubedoo:

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:

quote:

A heart surgeon and a GP do it, and we have quite the opposite story.

Gerry Mcann is not a heart surgeon.

hi BB
don't think it makes any difference if he is a surgeon or cardiologist or cardiac spr or whatever, i think the point the poster was trying to make was the possibility of double standards within our society

Hello. I just don't like to see McCann bigged up in this way and made out to be something he isn't in his professional life.

quote:

Originally posted by cologne1:

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:

quote:

A heart surgeon and a GP do it, and we have quite the opposite story.

Gerry Mcann is not a heart surgeon.

But he is a control freak.

BOTH of them should face charges of NEGLECT.

I assume you know him personally, if not, you can't possible make that statement.

I can make that statement on my veiwing of him over these last couple of years.

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by cologne1:

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:

quote:

A heart surgeon and a GP do it, and we have quite the opposite story.

Gerry Mcann is not a heart surgeon.

But he is a control freak.

BOTH of them should face charges of NEGLECT.

I assume you know him personally, if not, you can't possible make that statement.

I can make that statement on my veiwing of him over these last couple of years.

That's quite a talent.

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:

quote:

Originally posted by jujubedoo:

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:

quote:

A heart surgeon and a GP do it, and we have quite the opposite story.

Gerry Mcann is not a heart surgeon.

hi BB
don't think it makes any difference if he is a surgeon or cardiologist or cardiac spr or whatever, i think the point the poster was trying to make was the possibility of double standards within our society

Hello. I just don't like to see McCann bigged up in this way and made out to be something he isn't in his professional life.

Aaaaaaah sorry BB

They NEGLECTED 3 children under 5 years old, due to their own selfish behaviour one of their children has dissapeared of the face of the earth.. The McCanns (IMO) should face charges on that alone.

quote:

Originally posted by cologne1:

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by cologne1:

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:

quote:

A heart surgeon and a GP do it, and we have quite the opposite story.

Gerry Mcann is not a heart surgeon.

But he is a control freak.

BOTH of them should face charges of NEGLECT.

I assume you know him personally, if not, you can't possible make that statement.

I can make that statement on my veiwing of him over these last couple of years.

That's quite a talent.

You're defending them?

quote:

Originally posted by drum:
They NEGLECTED 3 children under 5 years old, due to their own selfish behaviour one of their children has dissapeared of the face of the earth.. The McCanns (IMO) should face charges on that alone.

That's quite a different matter from you assessing his character by watching him on television.

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by cologne1:

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by cologne1:

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:

quote:

A heart surgeon and a GP do it, and we have quite the opposite story.

Gerry Mcann is not a heart surgeon.

But he is a control freak.

BOTH of them should face charges of NEGLECT.

I assume you know him personally, if not, you can't possible make that statement.

I can make that statement on my veiwing of him over these last couple of years.

That's quite a talent.

You're defending them?

What I think of them is neither here nor there, I question you having the ability to assess his character when you don't know him past the TV pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by HyacinthB:
I still feel sorry for Kate and Gerry McCann. We none of us know how much they reproach themselves on a daily basis for the very bad judgment they made that fateful night.

Hiya Hyacinth

I feel sorry for them because their little girl is missing, but the fault lies with them and whoever took her. We cannot get away from the fact that if they had not gone out that night and left their 3 little children on their own, Madeline would not have been taken. That is something they have to live with for the rest of their lives. Acknowledging what they did in the beginning, may have changed alot of people's perception of them.

Very sad

quote:

Originally posted by cologne1:

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by cologne1:

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by cologne1:

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:

quote:

A heart surgeon and a GP do it, and we have quite the opposite story.

Gerry Mcann is not a heart surgeon.

But he is a control freak.

BOTH of them should face charges of NEGLECT.

I assume you know him personally, if not, you can't possible make that statement.

I can make that statement on my veiwing of him over these last couple of years.

That's quite a talent.

You're defending them?

What I think of them is neither here nor there, I question you having the ability to assess his character when you don't know him past the TV pictures.

I've watched and studied these scrotes for 2 years now.. gerry mccann is a control freak, his wife is a nervous wreck.

quote:

Originally posted by drum:
I've watched and studied these scrotes for 2 years now.. gerry mccann is a control freak, his wife is a nervous wreck.

Well, from where I am standing, he is doing everything to keep the campaign to find their daughter in the public eye and she is a distraught mother who knows that they made a mistake.

Did they not go out and leave their children every night though? Leaving them the once, perhaps could be described as a mistake, but not leaving them every night.

quote:

Originally posted by cologne1:

quote:

Originally posted by drum:
I've watched and studied these scrotes for 2 years now.. gerry mccann is a control freak, his wife is a nervous wreck.

Well, from where I am standing, he is doing everything to keep the campaign to find their daughter in the public eye and she is a distraught mother who knows that they made a mistake.

Keep watching, they are carrion, happy to make a few (million) bucks.

They made NO mistake, they willfully neglected 3 babies, due to their willfull neglect, one baby is now missing.... while they sat and ate and drank themselves merry. They are GUILTY of neglect.

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Did they not go out and leave their children every night though? Leaving them the once, perhaps could be described as a mistake, but not leaving them every night.

NEVER a mistake, you just dont leave babies on their own.. not at home or in a FOREIGN country. There was a FREE nanny service available, they refused. They are wholly to blame for that childs dissapearance.

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Did they not go out and leave their children every night though? Leaving them the once, perhaps could be described as a mistake, but not leaving them every night.

I think everything that can be said about this has been said a thousand times and more. We all have our personal perception about it and I for one think that there are many parents out there who are much, much worse. They were in an environment where they felt safe and took a calculated risk (remember, the others did too). Now they are going to pay for the rest of their lives and to call them scrotes is, IMHO, unnecessary.

This blog makes for extremely interesting reading. He has followed the Madeliene story since the beginning.

Mike Hitchen's blog.

quote:

Originally posted by drum:

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Did they not go out and leave their children every night though? Leaving them the once, perhaps could be described as a mistake, but not leaving them every night.

NEVER a mistake, you just dont leave babies on their own.. not at home or in a FOREIGN country. There was a FREE nanny service available, they refused. They are wholly to blame for that childs dissapearance.

I said "perhaps" could be described as a mistake, I was being generous. Oh and yes I agree, you should never leave your children on their own. They should have been charged with neglect, no question about it.

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:
This blog makes for extremely interesting reading. He has followed the Madeliene story since the beginning.

Mike Hitchen's blog.

As I'm certain you'll agree, blogs aren't necessarily impartial and don't necessarily report fact.

quote:

Originally posted by cologne1:

quote:

Originally posted by Liverpoollass:
Did they not go out and leave their children every night though? Leaving them the once, perhaps could be described as a mistake, but not leaving them every night.

I think everything that can be said about this has been said a thousand times and more. We all have our personal perception about it and I for one think that there are many parents out there who are much, much worse. They were in an environment where they felt safe and took a calculated risk (remember, the others did too). Now they are going to pay for the rest of their lives and to call them scrotes is, IMHO, unnecessary.

I agree that everything has been said a thousand times about what happened. But, you just don't take those sort of risks with your children - sorry but you don't. Suppose one of them had been ill? There is even talk that perhaps Madeline had, in fact, left the apartment in search of her parents and got abducted then.

quote:

Originally posted by Ross:

quote:

Originally posted by *BB*:
This blog makes for extremely interesting reading. He has followed the Madeliene story since the beginning.

Mike Hitchen's blog.

As I'm certain you'll agree, blogs aren't necessarily impartial and don't necessarily report fact.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

quote:

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I said it makes interesting reading. Try reading it.

And someone just took the words right outta mine. Literally.