If  I can find this man I'm gonna buy him as many drinks as he want, Laura the Tory is getting an hammering on twitter about LP's costings when she's never once questioned the Tories on borrowing more in five years than all the Labour governments put together 

Meanwhile the Tories have put publishing theirs off again, so far we have...

Maybe VAT and NI rises.

No triple lock on pensions.

Not ruled out more cuts to the disabled.

One year off work to care for ill relatives...unpaid 

and murder foxes 

I hate the Tories with a passion.Cannot stick that mare May.I have a serps pension .I now live alone in a two bed house,a luxury that must be taxed according to the Tory bastards.The fooking bedroom tax.Fortunately I get the discretionary payment to make up the difference (one good thing about the SNP).I Will always vote labour.

Dame Ann

ive been reading a hell of a lot of corbyn supported the IRA

but

have you noticed that the last time MSM came out with that crap was 2015?

if it was really true the daily mail would be all over it like a rash & wouldnt stop banging on about it

yet

the MSM arent

is it because, in spite of all those pics & news reports from 20+ yrs ago the MSM twisted it around to make him look like a terrorist supporter but he wasnt?

he was trying to achieve peace

now you might say BUT LOOK THE EVIDENCE IS THERE IN PICTURES & STATEMENTS

but was it?

because believe me the media would NOW be on it like a pack of hounds chasing a fox-yet theyre not

have a think about it

He did talk to the IRA Pirate to try and pave the way for peace talks, he did it in the open. Thatcher did it in secret, Willie Whitelaw was flying the IRA into London for meetings in the 70's and Blair had talks with them, at the end of the day it was talks that secured the peace agreement. 

He won the Gandhi peace prize in 2013 for his lifelong work in trying to negotiate peace. They are dragging things up form 30 years ago because he can't be bought....

We deal with the Saudi's, we sell them arms and it never gets mentioned by the right wing media..the labour party said they would stop the sale of arms to Saudi 

 The worrying thing for me is that I work with far too many younger voters who are disinterested and will not be voting.

So true EC my niece is 30 this year,and had voted once in her life,(local and national elections).I rage at her but she "can't be arsed".sigh.

kattymieoww posted:

So true EC my niece is 30 this year,and had voted once in her life,(local and national elections).I rage at her but she "can't be arsed".sigh.

The response I hear is "I'm just not interested".

*sighs*

There was an election just a few months after I turned 18, I voted in it and have voted in every election since. In that first election I voted the same as my parents as I didn't really know anything much about the political scene at that time, but it wasn't long before I felt I knew enough to decide for myself and if I was now voting the same as my parents (and I know there were at least TWO occasions where I didn't) it was purely co-incidental.

Question ....what is going to happen to all those now employed in the private sectors when they get nationlised ? Will they all be employed , or is there going to be some * rationalisation * too ? And will they be paid the same ....or take a pay cut ? And if it's the former how are they going to find the money to make improvements?  

Baz posted:

Question ....what is going to happen to all those now employed in the private sectors when they get nationlised ? Will they all be employed , or is there going to be some * rationalisation * too ? And will they be paid the same ....or take a pay cut ? And if it's the former how are they going to find the money to make improvements?  

I'm assuming they would keep their jobs, I can't remember people losing jobs when we had to take over the East Coast line in 2009. The line was making massive profit up until 2015 and the tories sold it off again... I think customer satisfaction was in the 80% 's. 

We are already pumping huge amounts of cash (£5Bn) each year into the so called private networks.

That 5Bn would become investment in OUR railway and the profits currently taken by private interests, currently 74% of whom are foreign nationalised railways, would become profit back into the nation. Or forgone and given back to users in cheaper fares.

http://www.independent.co.uk/n...xpayers-8866157.html

I know the East coast was profitable ...I just hope it all works out the way you think it will Dame .....but tbh my memory of the nationalised industries isn't quite that rosy  

Baz posted:

Question ....what is going to happen to all those now employed in the private sectors when they get nationlised ? Will they all be employed , or is there going to be some * rationalisation * too ? And will they be paid the same ....or take a pay cut ? And if it's the former how are they going to find the money to make improvements?  

I'm going to start to say ...

Comment - and then say something

A bit like Question and then asking a question  (like wot Baz has done - twit)

Saint posted:

Baz posted:

Question ....what is going to happen to all those now employed in the private sectors when they get nationlised ? Will they all be employed , or is there going to be some * rationalisation * too ? And will they be paid the same ....or take a pay cut ? And if it's the former how are they going to find the money to make improvements?  

I'm going to start to say ...

Comment - and then say something

A bit like Question and then asking a question  (like wot Baz has done - twit)

Baz posted:

I know the East coast was profitable ...I just hope it all works out the way you think it will Dame .....but tbh my memory of the nationalised industries isn't quite that rosy  

I know one thing Baz, we are better putting it into this country than profits going abroad and their railways are cheaper better and pension much higher due to profits made in this country, Private companies will always, always put profit before anything else. 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

I know the East coast was profitable ...I just hope it all works out the way you think it will Dame .....but tbh my memory of the nationalised industries isn't quite that rosy  

 

I know one thing Baz, we are better putting it into this country than profits going abroad and their railways are cheaper better and pension much higher due to profits made in this country, Private companies will always, always put profit before anything else. 

Probably Dame ....but I for one don't fancy being at the mercy of the unions again , been there , done that , lived through the 70s 

Comment - if private companies can run it at a profit then surely the Gov can.

Saint posted:

Comment - if private companies can run it at a profit then surely the Gov can.

 

 

a massive profit Renton and it's not going back into the railways, it's going abroad to maintain their railways, to the shareholders and to pension pots not in this country  Plus, on top of the profits they are making we are also giving the massive subsidies 

Baz posted:

Probably Dame ....but I for one don't fancy being at the mercy of the unions again , been there , done that , lived through the 70s 

Baz, now people have to work on zero hour contracts and can be told on the day we have no work, we have two hours work. Unions gave us a lot of rights, we have none at all now and the unions have little power. I don't want the people of this country to be trying to survive on nothing and that's what's happening now....I hate the tories and will to my dying day.

The  bedroom tax as Katty said she's lucky enough to get some help, many thousands on 50's woman in England that were given no warning that their pension age was going up can't afford to live and don't get help with the bedroom tax. I luckily don't have that problem...but to starve people because in Katty's words they have the luxury of having one spare room is nothing. I remember the 70's and I could easily go back to then rather than now. 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Probably Dame ....but I for one don't fancy being at the mercy of the unions again , been there , done that , lived through the 70s 

 

Baz, now people have to work on zero hour contracts and can be told on the day we have no work, we have two hours work. Unions gave us a lot of rights, we have none at all now and the unions have little power. I don't want the people of this country to be trying to survive on nothing and that's what's happening now....I hate the tories and will to my dying day.

 

The  bedroom tax as Katty said she's lucky enough to get some help, many thousands on 50's woman in England that were given no warning that their pension age was going up can't afford to live and don't get help with the bedroom tax. I luckily don't have that problem...but to starve people because in Katty's words they have the luxury of having one spare room is nothing. I remember the 70's and I could easily go back to then rather than now. 

We wil have to agree to differ on that , but time will tell ..one way or another  

Baz posted:

We wil have to agree to differ on that , but time will tell ..one way or another  

I think on this subject we always will Baz 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Probably Dame ....but I for one don't fancy being at the mercy of the unions again , been there , done that , lived through the 70s 

 

Baz, now people have to work on zero hour contracts and can be told on the day we have no work, we have two hours work. Unions gave us a lot of rights, we have none at all now and the unions have little power. I don't want the people of this country to be trying to survive on nothing and that's what's happening now....I hate the tories and will to my dying day.

 

The  bedroom tax as Katty said she's lucky enough to get some help, many thousands on 50's woman in England that were given no warning that their pension age was going up can't afford to live and don't get help with the bedroom tax. I luckily don't have that problem...but to starve people because in Katty's words they have the luxury of having one spare room is nothing. I remember the 70's and I could easily go back to then rather than now. 

    Although I was younger than some peeps in the 70's (And I don't mean anything by that)    I obviously don't remember as much but it certainly seemed like better times that I do remember  

Sprout posted:

    Although I was younger than some peeps in the 70's (And I don't mean anything by that)    I obviously don't remember as much but it certainly seemed like better times that I do remember  

I can't remember kids going to school hungry Pam, nurses not being able to afford to train...the 11 plus and the working class afforded the same opportunity to go to university as the middle class...better and happier times by far. 

Sprout posted:

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Probably Dame ....but I for one don't fancy being at the mercy of the unions again , been there , done that , lived through the 70s 

 

Baz, now people have to work on zero hour contracts and can be told on the day we have no work, we have two hours work. Unions gave us a lot of rights, we have none at all now and the unions have little power. I don't want the people of this country to be trying to survive on nothing and that's what's happening now....I hate the tories and will to my dying day.

 

The  bedroom tax as Katty said she's lucky enough to get some help, many thousands on 50's woman in England that were given no warning that their pension age was going up can't afford to live and don't get help with the bedroom tax. I luckily don't have that problem...but to starve people because in Katty's words they have the luxury of having one spare room is nothing. I remember the 70's and I could easily go back to then rather than now. 

    Although I was younger than some peeps in the 70's (And I don't mean anything by that)    I obviously don't remember as much but it certainly seemed like better times that I do remember  

I was in my teens and I remember strikes and the winter of discontent.

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Sprout posted:

    Although I was younger than some peeps in the 70's (And I don't mean anything by that)    I obviously don't remember as much but it certainly seemed like better times that I do remember  

 

I can't remember kids going to school hungry Pam, nurses not being able to afford to train...the 11 plus and the working class afforded the same opportunity to go to university as the middle class...better and happier times by far. 

Ted Heath having ink thrown over him

Kinnock falling in the sea

Michael Foot attending Remembrance Day in a donkey jacket duffle coat

I can't remember any of them 

I was the last year that did the 11+ and I consider myself lucky for that. My elder sister and I both went to the senior secondary, which was widely accredited as having superior teaching staff. My younger sister would have gone to (what had been) the junior secondary, which was still considered to be a bit inferior, but we had had to move house as my grandmother was coming to live with us and the new house (whether by luck or design) happened to be in the catchment area for the (senior) secondary

Yogi19 posted:

Sprout posted:

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Probably Dame ....but I for one don't fancy being at the mercy of the unions again , been there , done that , lived through the 70s 

 

Baz, now people have to work on zero hour contracts and can be told on the day we have no work, we have two hours work. Unions gave us a lot of rights, we have none at all now and the unions have little power. I don't want the people of this country to be trying to survive on nothing and that's what's happening now....I hate the tories and will to my dying day.

 

The  bedroom tax as Katty said she's lucky enough to get some help, many thousands on 50's woman in England that were given no warning that their pension age was going up can't afford to live and don't get help with the bedroom tax. I luckily don't have that problem...but to starve people because in Katty's words they have the luxury of having one spare room is nothing. I remember the 70's and I could easily go back to then rather than now. 

    Although I was younger than some peeps in the 70's (And I don't mean anything by that)    I obviously don't remember as much but it certainly seemed like better times that I do remember  

I was in my teens and I remember strikes and the winter of discontent.

I was in my 20s in the 1970s ....and was actually working for a nationalised electric company during some of the worst of it .....the unions went strike/power mad!!  There were scheduled.... and unscheduled power outages lasting hours... hospitals had function to on batteries and candles .....people were forced to take clean bedding and food into their relatives in hospitals .....rubbish piled up in the streets .....there were three/four  day weeks etc.etc.  I NEVER want to go through that again!  It certainly coloured my political views .....from then on in I stopped voting Labour and voted Liberal .....until recently ....

Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:

 

 The worrying thing for me is that I work with far too many younger voters who are disinterested and will not be voting.

 

this is very very sweary but very very true..show your kids..it might just make them vote!

The seventies had a myriad of problems, the miners were striking for a for a pay rise plus the arab states launched attacks on Israel causing oil prices to soar, post offices issued petrol coupons and we had to have a three day working week...Ted Heath was then the Conservative Prime Minister. In the late 70's we had the Winter of discontent when the the then Labour Prime Minister Jim Callaghan  tried to cap wages to try and control inflation...much like what the tories have done for seven years, capped wages to the poorest while the top 5% have had tax breaks and wage increases.

I would much rather put up with a few weeks of inconvenience than watch people being made homeless through the bedroom tax, watch people with learning difficulties not being able to understand bus timetables and being late for Jobseekers appointments and being sanctioned for weeks on end without a penny to live on. Watch someone suffering with diabetes not being able to eat properly or afford electricity to store insulin .Or watch someone who worked all their lives, paid their NI be struck down with Dementia or Alzheimer's and the only asset they own and have worked for to be taken away they can leave to their children...their family home. Or watch pensioners not being able to heat their homes through winter.  Not that any of that would happen now because the Unions have no power, I'm suprised instead of strikes there's not anarchy on the streets. 

I certainly know I would prefer a few weeks of that compared to the seven years we have had and worse to come. Just my opinion on how I see things  

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

 

 

The seventies had a myriad of problems, the miners were striking for a for a pay rise plus the arab states launched attacks on Israel causing oil prices to soar, post offices issued petrol coupons and we had to have a three day working week...Ted Heath was then the Conservative Prime Minister. In the late 70's we had the Winter of discontent when the the then Labour Prime Minister Jim Callaghan  tried to cap wages to try and control inflation...much like what the tories have done for seven years, capped wages to the poorest while the top 5% have had tax breaks and wage increases.

I would much rather put up with a few weeks of inconvenience than watch people being made homeless through the bedroom tax, watch people with learning difficulties not being able to understand bus timetables and being late for Jobseekers appointments and being sanctioned for weeks on end without a penny to live on. Watch someone suffering with diabetes not being able to eat properly or afford electricity to store insulin .Or watch someone who worked all their lives, paid their NI be struck down with Dementia or Alzheimer's and the only asset they own and have worked for to be taken away they can leave to their children...their family home. Or watch pensioners not being able to heat their homes through winter.  Not that any of that would happen now because the Unions have no power, I'm suprised instead of strikes there's not anarchy on the streets. 

 

I certainly know I would prefer a few weeks of that compared to the seven years we have had and worse to come. Just my opinion on how I see things  

I know we aren't going to agree ....I just wanted to point out that things were not rosy in the 70s .....or at any other time......think 69s  Cathy Come Home for homelessness .......and yes, I would like to think that the house I've worked all my life for wasn't going to be swallowed up paying for our care costs .....but on the other hand I guess there is an argument for saying why shouldn't I expect it for free if I have the assets .

I'm sorry I just don't believe Labours * we are going to do everything * promise ...in fact I think you are going to be very disappointed when /if they get into power. Promising the earth is easy in opposition , but it never translates into reality once any party....and  I do mean any party ...gets into power . But time will tell  

Oh and it wasn't a few weeks in the 70s ...it  started in 1970 and went through the whole decade in one form or another....that's why we ended up with over a decade of bliddy Thatcher....  

I think whatever they achieve will be make lives better for some Baz and care is not free, we pay NI all our lives and some don't even reach retirement. You're right though, we'll never agree on this  

Baz posted:

Oh and it wasn't a few weeks in the 70s ...it  started in 1970 and went through the whole decade in one form or another....that's why we ended up with over a decade of bliddy Thatcher....  

I did explain that Baz... Ted Heath was in power in the first half of the seventies ..it was 1973 and again in 78/79. 

Baz posted:

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

 

 

The seventies had a myriad of problems, the miners were striking for a for a pay rise plus the arab states launched attacks on Israel causing oil prices to soar, post offices issued petrol coupons and we had to have a three day working week...Ted Heath was then the Conservative Prime Minister. In the late 70's we had the Winter of discontent when the the then Labour Prime Minister Jim Callaghan  tried to cap wages to try and control inflation...much like what the tories have done for seven years, capped wages to the poorest while the top 5% have had tax breaks and wage increases.

I would much rather put up with a few weeks of inconvenience than watch people being made homeless through the bedroom tax, watch people with learning difficulties not being able to understand bus timetables and being late for Jobseekers appointments and being sanctioned for weeks on end without a penny to live on. Watch someone suffering with diabetes not being able to eat properly or afford electricity to store insulin .Or watch someone who worked all their lives, paid their NI be struck down with Dementia or Alzheimer's and the only asset they own and have worked for to be taken away they can leave to their children...their family home. Or watch pensioners not being able to heat their homes through winter.  Not that any of that would happen now because the Unions have no power, I'm suprised instead of strikes there's not anarchy on the streets. 

 

I certainly know I would prefer a few weeks of that compared to the seven years we have had and worse to come. Just my opinion on how I see things  

I know we aren't going to agree ....I just wanted to point out that things were not rosy in the 70s .....or at any other time......think 69s  Cathy Come Home for homelessness .......and yes, I would like to think that the house I've worked all my life for wasn't going to be swallowed up paying for our care costs .....but on the other hand I guess there is an argument for saying why shouldn't I expect it for free if I have the assets .

 

I'm sorry I just don't believe Labours * we are going to do everything * promise ...in fact I think you are going to be very disappointed when /if they get into power. Promising the earth is easy in opposition , but it never translates into reality once any party....and  I do mean any party ...gets into power . But time will tell  

You're right Baz....after all, the Tories promised the earth too didn't they?   Truth is, I'd much rather prefer Labour's version of promising the earth rather than the Tories. 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Oh and it wasn't a few weeks in the 70s ...it  started in 1970 and went through the whole decade in one form or another....that's why we ended up with over a decade of bliddy Thatcher....  

 

I did explain that Baz... Ted Heath was in power in the first half of the seventies ..it was 1973 and again in 78/79. 

But the point that I was making was that it started in 1970.... with power cuts due to work to rule .....and I think ....although I might be wrong the It was Harold Wilson then.....the thing is it didn't matter which party was in power ....and again from memory there were two Labour PMs and two Conservative ....it was the unions and hardcore Left that caused the problems  

Baz posted:

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Oh and it wasn't a few weeks in the 70s ...it  started in 1970 and went through the whole decade in one form or another....that's why we ended up with over a decade of bliddy Thatcher....  

 

I did explain that Baz... Ted Heath was in power in the first half of the seventies ..it was 1973 and again in 78/79. 

But the point that I was making was that it started in 1970.... with power cuts due to work to rule .....and I think ....although I might be wrong the It was Harold Wilson then.....the thing is it didn't matter which party was in power ....and again from memory there were two Labour PMs and two Conservative ....it was the unions and hardcore Left that caused the problems  

But things have changed now.......this is years on from that and to be fair go with what is happening now, rather than what happened then 

Sprout posted:

Baz posted:

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Oh and it wasn't a few weeks in the 70s ...it  started in 1970 and went through the whole decade in one form or another....that's why we ended up with over a decade of bliddy Thatcher....  

 

I did explain that Baz... Ted Heath was in power in the first half of the seventies ..it was 1973 and again in 78/79. 

But the point that I was making was that it started in 1970.... with power cuts due to work to rule .....and I think ....although I might be wrong the It was Harold Wilson then.....the thing is it didn't matter which party was in power ....and again from memory there were two Labour PMs and two Conservative ....it was the unions and hardcore Left that caused the problems  

But things have changed now.......this is years on from that and to be fair go with what is happening now, rather than what happened then 

And you don't think this manifesto is retrograde ?? It's not me that's going backwards  

Baz posted:

But the point that I was making was that it started in 1970.... with power cuts due to work to rule .....and I think ....although I might be wrong the It was Harold Wilson then.....the thing is it didn't matter which party was in power ....and again from memory there were two Labour PMs and two Conservative ....it was the unions and hardcore Left that caused the problems  

In Sweden and Norway Corby would look quite Liberal, he's a socialist, This country has moved so far right Ted Heath would be called a Communist ..and they do much better than us to be fair. 

Baz posted:

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

Baz posted:

Oh and it wasn't a few weeks in the 70s ...it  started in 1970 and went through the whole decade in one form or another....that's why we ended up with over a decade of bliddy Thatcher....  

 

I did explain that Baz... Ted Heath was in power in the first half of the seventies ..it was 1973 and again in 78/79. 

But the point that I was making was that it started in 1970.... with power cuts due to work to rule .....and I think ....although I might be wrong the It was Harold Wilson then.....the thing is it didn't matter which party was in power ....and again from memory there were two Labour PMs and two Conservative ....it was the unions and hardcore Left that caused the problems  

No: that was Heath. It was the miners' strikes during his premiership that led to him imposing the Three-Day Week, and eventually losing the 1974 election. The strikes ended almost immediately after Labour came to power.

There is a theory that it was the repercussions of Heath's inability to deal with the unions (especially the miners) that partly led to Thatcher taking such a hard line in 1984.

The 1978-79 "Winter of Discontent" was under James Callaghan, though, and that of course led to Thatcher wining the 1979 election...