Skip to main content

Reference:
Whatever people think of those of the liberal persuation, there is no doubt that finding reasons for such crimes, rather than excusing them, has helped and will help to prevent other children turning into people capable of such sadism and cruelty.
I'd much rather be a liberal than (say) a 'sans culottes'.  We'll be having a Committee of Public Safety next, staffed by these modern-day Jacobins.  It's bad enough with these various Czars and Champions being given distorting roles in quasi-government as a sop to all the tabloid-reading 'sans culottes' when they should be sorting out their grief privately and with professional help.
FM
Reference:
I certainly am not ready for sharia law Joe. But, there are criminals who commit crimes that are even beyond evil and should have never been let out in to society on the pretence that they are rehabilitated, only to commit further crimes
Au contraire! There was a guy who lived just up the road from us, we met him a couple of times, and he seemed quite nice. But then bigger boys made him take a number of decisions which led to the deaths of thousands of children. Even now babies are being born with terrible defects.

However the guy is completely reformed and does not now represent a threat to kiddies. Perhaps we should have taken Thomson and Venables, housed them in leafy London Squares, and paid 'em Β£50,000 a lecture?
(Was it Stalin who said, "One or two deaths are a tragedy, thousands are merely statistics?")
Garage Joe
I think your point is well made Joe, as an old rhyme has it:
The law doth punish the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But lets the greater felon loose
Who steals the common from the goose


However just because Blair, Bush and his band of happy murderers should be prosecuted for war crimes/ crimes against humanity etc doesn't mean that people aren't entitled to kick off when someone has committed a heinous crime, been given a (very expensive) second chance and then subsequently reoffended.
Btw I don't hate those kids anymore than I hate the ones who were prosecuted recently (Ican't remember the details of the case exactly) just strongly feel that when someone has been damaged to that extent that it is in the interests of public safety to keep them away from us
FM
I do believe that the vast majority of people can be rehabilitated though Marcus.
But when you are dealing with people who have been brutalised to the extent that these kids who commit those sorts of crimes do then I think, sadly, it is already too late.
We all felt desperately sorry for Baby P but I have wondered (as I have said before) what kind of person he would have grown up to be given what had been done to him.
It might be fraught with legal difficulties, but the older I get the more I believe that we should charge the parents of these kids with making them monsters and imprison them (the parents) until they are too old to produce offspring  that they can damage
FM
Thing about rehabilitation is i think it only works if the person is truly remorseful  and wants to lead a 'normal' life.

Like with say smoking, someone can get all the help in the world but if they don't  truly want to quit they cant.

The problem i think lies in distinguishing between people who really do want help to change, and those who pretend to get lighter sentence and softer treatment
Jen-Star
That's a fair point Marcus and probably one of the reasons that it is really hard to predict who will be a danger when released as people with the same upbringing can react differently in a situation.
The point I was trying to make (clumsily) is that once a line has been crossed - murder for example - especially in children so young, well I'm not sure that they can be rehabilitated
FM
Prison works for some people but not others.  The re-offending rates for some of the lower offences are truly dreadful and prison obviously doesn't work well there.  Re-offending rates for life license people are pretty good, I think.

The problem as I see it is that lots of people see prisons purely as places of punishment.  That's what they want.  Justice means punishment.  Retribution.  Revenge, even.  And that's from people who aren't even involved in a specific case.

We have a very large prison population, relatively speaking, and both Labour and Conservative want to increase the places.  Sentences have also generally got harsher since Labour took power, although I bet that would surprise many people.

However, if I recall correctly, considering the number of prisoners along side the number of reported crimes, the figure is more comparable to other similar countries.  It seems we're quite crime-ridden on the face of it.  What to do?  Lock more people up, and perhaps for longer, or deal with the reasons why.
FM
Reference:
Post ReplyReplies: 247 Garage Joe 5653 Forum Posts Today at 01:46 (Last Edited: Reference: I certainly am not ready for sharia law Joe. But, there are criminals who commit crimes that are even beyond evil and should have never been let out in to society on the pretence that they are rehabilitated, only to commit further crimes Au contraire! There was a guy who lived just up the road from us, we met him a couple of times, and he seemed quite nice. But then bigger boys made him take a number of decisions which led to the deaths of thousands of children. Even now babies are being born with terrible defects. However the guy is completely reformed and does not now represent a threat to kiddies. Perhaps we should have taken Thomson and Venables, housed them in leafy London Squares, and paid 'em Β£50,000 a lecture? (Was it Stalin who said, "One or two deaths are a tragedy, thousands are merely statistics?") Jenstar 1185 Forum Posts Today at 01:51 (Last Edited: Reference: Was it Stalin who said, "One or two deaths are a tragedy, thousands are merely statistics? Profound whoever it was. marcus 265 Forum Posts Today at 02:36 (Last Edited: Prison reabilitation ! stick it up your arse....People are just born bad ! Veggieburger 4528 Forum Posts Today at 02:42 (Last Edited: I think your point is well made Joe, as an old rhyme has it: The law doth punish the man or woman Who steals the goose from off the common But lets the greater felon loose Who steals the common from the goose

How true..... coincidence that the V' story broke at the same time that Brown faced the enquiry..... I think not!Newspapers /sleaze papers are very good at sensationalising little items when they want to bury some serious issues that effect the poplace.... We do not know what V has done ,it is at this moment pure speculation! There are very few honest reporters left... they are in the ownership of corporate organisations such as the like of Murdoc.Writers only report what is required of them and nothing more. They sell the sleaze because sheeple fall for it and buy it!  Sheeple are told what to think because they are no longer able to think for themselves.
What ever those children did is horrifying and beggers belief .. it is a sorry endictment of the society we now live in. We need to ask the question why and how we can possibly rectify such occurances... we as a society are all to blame and the society we have appears to be the society that we want!
F
Reference: Kaytee
Jack Straw has said that the offence is 'sickening'
Has he?

All I could find was this from the Times:

Straw was forced into releasing a statement yesterday after a newspaper claimed that Venables was accused of β€œa sickening sex crime”.

He said: β€œOur motivation throughout has been solely to ensure that some extremely serious allegations are properly investigated and that justice is done.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article7052607.ece
Blizz'ard
Reference:
All I can say is, I was smacked, leathered, beaten constantly as a kid for trivial matters

That is terrible but ...............I'm not being flippant in saying that someone was teaching you right from wrong (albeit in the wrong way) ........some kids have parents who simply dont give a damn .......they're left to bring themselves up with the influence of older problematic siblings and allowed/encoraged to watch sickening, viloent videos. Surely someone has to teach them right from wrong.
In my day we had religious assemblies with examples of 'good' people - Dr Barnado, Albert Shweitzer (sp) and loads of other do gooders ...........we were force fed what was right. Then there was Sunday school where we heard it all again ...................added to that we had caring parents/family and neighbours who would tell you right from wrong. It simply doesn't happen like that these days.
Soozy Woo
Reference:
I'm not sure there would be a trial because he already has a life sentence...so they could just clap him in jail again
Kaytee, (I am reliably informed) that someone who is out on licence, is immediately recalled to prison when they have been charged with a further crime. There still has to be a trial to prove them guilty (or innocent) of said crime. They are kept in prison until the trial takes place. This is the case in Scotland, don't know if it's different in England and Wales.
Yogi19
Reference:marcus
It's too early on a sunday for me to get right into this veggie,All I can say is, I was smacked, leathered, beaten constantly as a kid for trivial matters, Do I now Chastise my son with my hands...NO
Has anybody read the books by a guy called Joe Peters? Cry Silent Tears and Cry Myself To Sleep? He was abused, tortured and had a rotten upbringing, yet he started a foundation and helps kids in a similar position....

http://www.joepeters.co.uk/

I agree marcus, not all kids who have troubled childhoods repeat it as adults....he is a person who turned his bad experiences into doing good for others, he is a remarkable Man
The Devil In Diamante
Guesswork and supposition can be a very dangerous thing, in a situation like this.
Due to the nature of the crime, some people will continue to try to find out the new identities of Venables and Thompson, I just hope innocent people don't get hurt in the process.
BTW, I'm not having a dig at Marcus, just commenting on the situation.
Yogi19
Last edited by Yogi19

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×