Nope , it's not just you .. the " haves" just keep getting away with it .

LOL, thanks Slinki

 

 

Nope not just you...I've just watched a women on look north news...poor bugger needs 24 hour care and DWP are saying she needs to go on a 6 day course to see what work she can manage. I think she's struggling to stay alive, let alone bloody work. I know there's scroungers and cheats, but it's all through society and the higher you are up the pecking order, the more you are quids in. 

  

Yep like the big bank that's trying to avoid paying tax through a loophole.The Mail etc don't have that splashed all over their front pages etc.

Not just you Sparkles.

You'd have to go a bliddy long way to cheat the system out of an amount that would come anywhere close to the amounts that the rich get away with - legally in a lot of cases!

Although I still get irate when people really take the p out of the benefits system - if only for the fact they then give the MPs and Daily Mail readers of this world a chance to slag off 'scroungers' and 'benefit culture'.

Oh yes it is annoying that some take the pee Veggie, but I think there are very few that make 100s of 1000s of profit out of it, and some are just trying to give their families a decent life...  Maybe by going about it the wrong way, but still, I don't think there is any malice in it, or any intention to scam 100s of 1000s out of the system. It's like a 'benefit trap...'

 

Same with incapacity benefit.  Yes there are SOME that could do some kind of work, but TBH, I think that almost everyone who is on it, (and has been on it 5 or more years) who could now work, started off with a genuine complaint/problem/illness...  Then it got a bit better, but they got so used to being on it, getting lots of things paid for (rent maybe, and money towards council tax, and free dental, free school meals etc, and prescriptions and so on,) and they got so used to being with their family and having their freedom, that it became increasingly hard to go back to work.

 

I mean, I know several people (40-plus) who worked for 25-30 years, and never took a bean of benefit, and then went on I.B. and are still on it five years (or more) later.  They were honest hard working people, who paid their dues for years, so they're not lazy, bone idle scroungers; they are just working folk who had an accident or illness, and got used to the life on I.B, and some found they were no worse off financially than when they worked.  I am not justifying staying on it, but I can understand why they do. 

 

Whilst I agree that the big time fraudsters get away with stuff, I still get p'd off with people cheating the benefits system.   Two wrongs don't make a right and the people with fake bad backs etc are the reason that people like the woman Dame's talking about have to jump through hoops (oh, if only) to get the help they genuinely need.

Can't quote, but sparkles.. people who stay on I.B. when they could work because they've got used to it?  sorry.. but they are lazy scroungers, and I don't see how you can dress that up any other way.

The world is just a crazy messed up place

I'm not saying that it's right that they do stay on I.B. if they can do *some* kind of job Kaffy.  I'm just saying that people who have worked 25 to 30 years have already proved that they are not lazy dole scroungers.  What I am saying is that they get used to being on it and find it hard to get off it, as they get used to being at home, and getting paid as much as they would at home.  So I do stick by what I say there.  JMO of course.  I'm not dressing anything up, just saying not everyone on I.B is a lazy dole scrounger.  They get caught in a benefit trap, like many on the dole do.

How do they manage to do it??    Most of the people I know who are genuinely in receipt of, or in need of, incapacity benefit are having to fight like mad  for it.     I've lost count of the number of people who have been turned down or had the amount of money they get reduced to the point where I just sit there thinking "this can't be right, how do they expect these poor people to live"

 

I reckon anyone clued up enough to manage to pull it off, clued up enough to negotiate the bleedin forms and complete them to the point of being awarded IB fraudulently  must have some serious admin skills!  

 

someone showed me one of the application forms the other day...   it was for her 19 yr old son who suffers extreme epilepsy (as in having multiple major episodeso9n a daily basis)..   I'm post grad qualified (in business & admin) & I would be struggling to navigate that form!

Also wonder, are people who stay on incapacity for years, any worse than *some* single mums who have stayed on state benefits for 20-25 years or more, having kids for as long as is humanly possible?  Getting her rent paid, council tax paid, free prescriptions, free dental treatment, free eye tests and optical vouchers, free school trips, free bus passes for the kids and so on....  

 

Seems that people on I.B. are often vilified ; even the ones who deserve the I.B..., Yet I know numerous mums around my area and my daughters school who are around my age (47) and have never done a day's paid work in their lives?  Are people claiming I.B and staying on it, after working for 30 years, bleeding the state dry any more than these mums are?  Not in my view they're not...  JMO of course.  Not trying to attack single mums, as I know not all are in that position deliberately... I think you know the type I mean.  The ones that never intend to work

I stand by my opinion, sparkles.  Just because they've worked in the past when they didn't realise they could get the same money for not working doesn't prove they're not lazy.... it just proves they didn't realise the loophole earlier.  JMO... but I have no respect for people who can work and don't simply because they've found a way to get money from the public purse for sitting on their arse.     If they genuinely are not able to work, or can't find work - totally different matter - and if the ones who are 'just used to spending time with their families' actually did something, there might be more money for the ones who have no choice.    i suppose it depends on how you define self respect.. paying my way as long as I'm able is important to me, but maybe conning the system is enough for some people.

Did anyone here watch Panorama last night?      About the trading of farming subsidies & the millions & millions being claimed by people that are not even farmers?

 

Totally scandalous..   the government need to sort this kind of crap out first, its a quick easy fix that would save millions going into the pockets of the already wealthy

We will have to agree to differ Kaffy, coz I don't think it's as black and white and simplistic as you're making it out to be.. And I don't think that all people actually intend on 'conning' people...  Some are honest people who have worked 30 to 35 years before they claim I.B.  So I think that it an unfair thing to say. Some yes, but not everyone.  You're entitled to your opinion of course.  I just don't agree with it.    Never been on I.B. myself, but I know several people who are.  I have been on the dole though, a few times, but only about 3 - 4 years out of my 30 years of work life.    Guess I have been lucky.  

Gotta go now to put tea on, and as I said, you're entitled to your view of course, and I am not saying it's wrong.  I just have a totally different view.  See ya soon

I will get that on catch up, thanks Ditty xxx  See you soon.

sparkles, I think anyone who is able to work and stays on any kind of benefit long time is just as bad as I.B. fakers.  

 

and Ditty... agree entirely, I don't know how they do it either!    

 

I get really annoyed because severely disabled sis would LOVE to work, and she tried it once... at Remploy... managed a week or so - knocked herself into hospital in the process and for her troubles 'you're working now....' they took her mobility allowance and car from her and it took her a year of appeals to get her back.     She  moved out of her disability adapted house and in with relatives and her house was given to a bloke on benefits with a mobility car, who promptly laid a drive for it... with 4 x 2 concrete slabs which he offloaded and laid himself.

Other papers have been full of stuff about Murdoch products. One of the most amazing ones concerned Jackie Hain ( remember her on crimewatch?) her husband, a senior detective, was about to reopen a murder case. The person being investigated had a word with someone at the NOTW who began a campaign against Hain and her husband. The Sun are just filling the media with inconsequential shieght to turn their readers eyes away from the real news.

see you later, sparkles

Well I guess your view/opinion has been clouded by your sister's experience Kaffy, and has left a bitter taste in your mouth.   And I am sorry that she was so unfortunate,,,,  Nevertheless, I think your views are a bit harsh and unfair.  But that is just my opinion of course.  Like I said, we will have to agree to differ.  No offence intended towards you.  

nor you sparkles, and none taken.   Like I say, I'm only talking about people who make it lifestyle choice because 'why should I work when I can claim benefits I'm not really entitled to and live quite comfortably'   That's immoral imo.     

 

None of that takes away from the serious big issues that need tackled obviously  

 

 

I agree Kaffy......

Blairs worth a small fortune now and pays next to FA through one of these company loopyhole schemes.

 

Makes you puke.

 

Couldn't agree with you more sparkles.

Well I do agree with you there.  I don't agree with people who DO think like this all their lives and as I said before, (on this thread,) I get irked by *some* single mums staying on benefits all their lives, with no intention to work....EVER.

 

I guess I thought you were only seeing the absolute worst in people, even people who weren't purposely scamming, and you thought I was 'okaying' people scrounging.  Both which are not correct..  Daft arent we ?  Gizza hug!  

Now I really MUST make TEA!  

Thank you

Reckon if they can get away with it...then good luck to them!
There are plenty of parasites out there that we actually pay for willingly!  

I agree with that too

I was on Incapacity Benefit for a while ( luckily, short-term) while I recovered from a serious illness ( I was working on temporary contracts when I got ill , so my employer's sick pay scheme didn't really work for me)  Trust me, Kaffy, there's no financial incentive to stay on IB !It was a whole £2 per week more than N.I. based jobseekers allowance, and a helluva lot less than I had been earning before I got ill. My mortgage payments weren't a helluva lot less unfortunately, and there was no assistance with them . The difficulty in returning to work after a long period of absence/ illness is more about confidence than money, in my experience.

I caught a wee bit of that ditty, a real scandal. 

Look,  you need to  grasp the whole point of  being on the fiddle,us working  class oiks are just so crap at it, when we do it, we scale  the dizzing heights of  filching £20 a week, and  live in fear of getting our collars felt.

 

The ability to  fiddle,on a grand scale, is some thing  reserved for those that  already have and want  to have more. its a club and we aren't in it!

 

so lets just get over it,  and try to do better next time....

 

I think its outrageous! What makes me angry is people like a woman i heard of once (a while ago now) who got done for claiming carers allowance on a job where only some weeks she earned slightly more than the £90 (or whatever it is she was allowed to earn) then some weeks she would earn £40.  She rightly thought that in a world with common sense that would balance itself out, but WRONG. They are the people that are wrongfully made a target. But the woman in this link is a fraudster, a criminal.

 

She is just a big a criminal as the criminals in our own government and the boss of top shop!

ill post this again, because he makes so much sense.

 

 

slinks    glad you're ok now    I'm probably getting the names of the benefits mixed up!   I'm talking about people who are claiming long term benefits like high rate DLA and mobility allowance fraudulently - not sure exactly how much that comes to, but it's more than jobseekers, I'm sure, when you count it all together.      

 

I watched something on daytime telly when I was on holiday... a bloke who didn't work, had no intention of working (don't know what benefit he was claiming) but he said quite openly that with his benefit, paid rent, etc, he chose to stay home and do nothing rather than work for the same money... and he told his 16 year old son he shouldn't bother trying to find work either.     I just can't get my head round that.   

 

  

Brilliant, jackson  

Ta baffywumman! I get you now  

 

 

So is Davey boy Velvet, his dad got around inheritance nicely  

There's a video at the bottom of this page that illustrates the benefit trap pretty well 

 

http://www.communityallowance.org/