Apols for long post... also Adam is a relative

The trouble is that the triple jab worried parents. I remember my daughter agonizing over it, but ppl should have gone for it.

 

Although I remember myself and my mates all having it and no lasting damage.

If i have read correctly, isn't this the argument put forward by that Dr Wakefield. He has been struck off.

Maybe it is Joe im a bit of a noob.

 

But there is research of all sorts of 'jabs' given to our kids that shows they do have side effects...

I'm sure that I read somewhere that the current outbreaks are laid at his door. We listened to a lot of people older than me talking about how many deaths were caused by Measles in the old days, and the worry that it might happen again.

Well Mmr is a murky area..

 

Swine Flu Vaccine Caused Narcolepsy in Thousands: BMJ Claim

The Pandemrix vaccine has condemned thousands of children to lives constrained by narcolepsy. An autoimmune disease was entirely predictable because the adjuvant used was squalene—but warnings were ignored. Now, the BMJ has produced a study that proves the AS03 adjuvant of Pandemrix causes narcolepsy.

The narcolepsy toll from GlaxoSmithKline’s Pandemrix swine flu vaccine is far more rampant than already recognized with 800 European children’s lives devastated. The British Medical Journal (BMJ) has revealed that the numbers worldwide must run into the thousands. Suggestions that there was something unique about the Scandinavian population that first noted the problem have now been shown to be untrue.

Narcolepsy is a devastating neurological disorder characterized by suddenly dropping off to sleep as the result of emotion—any emotion. Sufferers can suddenly collapse into sleep simply by laughing. Can you imagine a life in which laughing could be dangerous? This is not the only symptom of narcolepsy. It can also cause hallucinations, temporary paralysis, difficulty concentrating, restlessness and difficulty sleeping normally, vivid nightmares, cataplexy, and continuing to carry out actions while sleeping.

There is no known cure, and its victims are generally given strong drugs in an attempt to control symptoms. These include amphetamines and amphetamine-like drugs such as Adderall. All of these drugs can cause severe adverse effects, including tachycardia, nervousness, diarrhea, fatigue, vomiting, anxiety, palpitations, tremors, and manic episodes.

The Study

The researchers examined the records of children who’d been diagnosed with narcolepsy during the time that the Pandemrix vaccine was being delivered. They were provided with lists from the British Sleep Society and the British Paediatric Neurology Association, which referenced 23 centers that deal with narcolepsy. They initiated strong standards to rule out any child whose condition wasn’t definitively narcolepsy.

Questionnaires were sent to their GPs to ascertain whether they’d received the Pandemrix vaccine and on what date. This information was compared with the timing of onset of narcolepsy. What they found was definitive:

This study shows a significantly increased risk of narcolepsy in children who received the AS03 adjuvanted pandemic strain vaccine in England. Our case coverage method gave an odds ratio of 14.4 (4.3 to 48.5) for the primary analysis and is consistent with the relative risk of 13 reported from Finland in a retrospective cohort study.

Squalene, the Adjuvant that Destroys Lives

The researchers also clarified that they believe it’s the AS03 adjuvant used in Pandemrix that caused narcolepsy. Many people warned of the risk, because the active ingredient in AS03 is squalene.

Even if squalene is banned, the problem of dangerous adjuvants is far from over. Researchers are demonstrating that the old standard, aluminum, is causing a huge array of adverse effects from vaccines, including lupus erythematosus, macrophagic myofasciitis, rheumatoid arthritis, antiphospholipid syndrome, and many other severely debilitating disorders.

And then there’s the new generation of bioengineered adjuvants, made by engineering bacteria so that they manufacture antigen-like particles. These are used both as antigens and adjuvants, and they carry a risk similar to squalene: They are all lipids. Injecting a lipid has been known for decades to cause devastating autoimmune diseases. In the early years of adjuvant experimentation, it was determined that they are too dangerous for use in vaccines. In fact, they’re used in animal experiments to cause autoimmune disorders so treatments for the human diseases they duplicate can be studied. How can such adjuvants be justified as safe?

The fact is that this tragedy was completely avoidable. Squalene’s danger has been known for decades. There is no excuse for its use in vaccines.

I am not a doctor, but, I believe pretty much all injections (and most medicines in general) have potential side effects.

When you go for a flu jab. you're asked if you're alergic to eggs. I was recently placed on a course of antibiotics: they cleared the infection, but gave me a bout of diarhea.

 

The question is: are the risks of not having the injection greater than the risks of having it? Recent events would suggest that - at least in the case of MMR - the answer is "yes"...

The vaccines effects haven't worn off, Jen. The reason the outbreak is affecting 10 to 19 year olds is because 'Dr' Wakefield published his fraudulent study in 1998, so lots of 4 year olds (now 19) didn't get their pre-school booster and other younger kids didn't even get their first injection. Parents have gradually accepted that Wakefield's study was a load of carp, so, presumably, the under 10s have had a far better uptake.

 

Also, the quoted report:

An outbreak of measles occurred in a high school with
a documented vaccination level of 98 per cent. Nineteen (70 per cent)
of the cases were students who had histories of measles vaccination
at 12 months of age or older and are therefore considered vaccine
failures. Persons who were unimmunized or immunized at less than
12 months of age had substantially higher attack rates compared to
those immunized on or after 12 months of age. Vaccine failures
among apparently adequately vaccinated individuals were sources of
infection for at least 48 per cent of the cases in the outbreak. There
was no evidence to suggest that waning immunity was a contributing

factor among the vaccine failures. Close contact with cases of
measles in the high school, source or provider of vaccine, sharing
common activities or classes with cases, and verification of the
vaccination history were not significant risk factors in the outbreak.
The outbreak subsided spontaneously after four generations of
illness in the school and demonstrates that when measles is introduced in a highly vaccinated population, vaccine failures may play
some role in transmission but that such transmission is not usually
sustained. (Am J Public Health 1987; 77:434-438.)

So, some vaccines fail and this only adds to the urgency to keep the herd protection as high as possible, to protect as many as possible. I'm not sure whether there were booster vaccines in the US in 1984, as it's not mentioned (so probably not), but that may be a factor as well.

I wish that I could have posted more last night but I was supervising the snaffle thread, and the repetitive nature therein made me sleepy. Mention of Vitamin A always rings alarm bells. Don't forget that it is possible to overdose and it can have very toxic effects to the liver and bones. The above point about anti-biotics! They can be very powerful and do what it says on the tin. They kill all bacteria including the useful ones in the gut. Some recommend that you take inboard live yoghourt to replace your needed cultures. Thus you may avoid a case of "dish otters" or "Chris straits!" Your GP is always the best person to ask rather than T'internet, Dr Wakefield, or I.

My point (not made very well) is these vaccines are made as cheaply as possible, they know safer ways/ingredients but that would make them less profitable to mass produce.

Interesting piece Jen 

That makes sense about breastfeeding 

I'm old enough to remember catching all these diseases that we immunize against now.Scarlet fever.measles(caught twice)German  measles, Chickenpox all before i was 11 years old.me and my older brother were not allowed out the door when we had scarlet fever and had to have throat swabs taken weekly,even when we both felt ok,six weeks off school,yes! I  didn't feel particularly poorly with any of them,itchy yes.

Vitamin A is given to children with the Measles and does help in recovery. The mortality rate from Measles has gone down massively in countries where children's nutrition has improved, but there will still be some kids that end up with permanent damage from the disease and even some who die. A hundred years ago, the mortality rate for Measles in Britain was 14% for under 5s, now it is 0.03%. Improved nutrition was the major influence on that, but vaccination has improved things still further.

 

During the last three months of pregnancy, antibodies are transferred from the mother to the baby and this carries on, if the baby is breastfed in the early weeks. This gives the baby some protection, as long as the mother has immunity i.e. has either had the disease, or been immunised at some stage.

Both my kids are teenagers and theyve both had measles in the last few weeks.Its not pleasant but no worse than flu.I treated them both with homeopathic remedies and their symptoms were greatly relieved.They are both fine now.Im in the Swansea area by the way.The hysteria surrounding the measles is disproportionate in my opinion.

without his concerns they would still be putting mercury in the MMR

Its also worth mentioning that several parents of kids who were given the MMR have told me that their kids have had measles recently but the doctors refused to accept it was measles as they had been vaccinated and refused to swab them and add them to the figures.......something not right here

Seriously?    My brother's deaf in one ear now thanks to measles.

It called "massaging the figures" Amythist 

Sorry to hear that but when my daughter started having ear problems she got treatment and all was well, fortunately....if you lived here you would understand what I mean.A bad flu kills more people than measles does.

I know, the drug companies are loving it

A few more tens of millions into their coffers off the back of misery 

But the MMR vaccine never contained mercury. 

I don't doubt it (my brothers in his late 50s now btw - time have changed)   I just don't see the point in putting your kids in danger when they don't have to be.    I never got the 'let's have a chicken pox party' stuff either.

From http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/ph...tions/measles2.shtml

The infection isn't usually serious but there are potential complications that can be fatal, even for otherwise healthy children. These include otitis media, pneumonia, hepatitis, conjunctivitis and encephalitis (inflammation of the brain, which occurs in about one in 5,000 cases).

Although complications involving the nervous system occur in fewer than one in 1,000 cases, the long-term effects can be devastating.

Encephalitis or inflammation of the brain may develop a few days after the rash has appeared, and a quarter of those who get this complication will be left with brain damage. A devastating but extremely rare progressive illness called subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) may develop many years after the first bout of measles and is eventually fatal. Fortunately, it's very rare, occuring in fewer than one in 100,000 cases.

 

didn't roald dhal have a daughter who died from measles?, or was it another author? remember reading something about it a while ago

Yes, he did. Heartbreaking.   http://www.blacktriangle.org/blog/?p=715

 

I remember being quite poorly with measles and being confined to a darkened room . It can be a nasty disease .

I can't remember being Ill with it but I too stayed in a darkened room 

My mum has photos of my brother and I, lying in a darkened room, when we both had measles at the same time.

I had all three of mine vaccinated against everything, although they all got chickenpox at some point, as there was no vaccination for that.

How terribly sad.

All three of mine had measles together when they were young (I had reasons for not vaccinating) - it was horrible. I've got a photo of them somewhere - wish I could post it. The ad for the measles jab at the time was 'Measles is Misery' - Mr Woo said I should have sent them that photo to front the campaign.

It used to contain mercury and was cleaned up, but still contains aluminium and formaldehyde....both known toxins

Yes it can....I had it as a child too.

Everything I've found has said that MMR never contained mercury.

 

This explains it all well - http://immunize.ca/en/publicat...tions/additives.aspx

 

Formaldehyde
Formaldehyde may be used early in the manufacturing process to inactivate some viruses and toxins. Purification removes almost all of the formaldehyde. Formaldehyde occurs naturally in the human body and helps with metabolism. There is approximately ten times the amount of formaldehyde in a baby’s body at any time than there is in a vaccine.

Aluminum
Aluminum salts (aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, or potassium aluminum sulfate) are used as adjuvants, substances added to a vaccine to enhance and strenghten the immune system's response. Adjuvants used today make it possible to reduce the amount of antigens (parts of weak or dead viruses or bacteria) in a vaccine. Monitoring of vaccines over seven decades has proven adjuvants are safe. Aluminum is the most abundant element in the earth’s crust and is found in air, food and water. Aluminum is present in breast milk and infant formula in similar amounts as in vaccines.

Mercury
An ethyl mercury derivative call thimerosal is used as a preservative. No vaccine made in Canada since March 2001 for routine use in children contains thimerosal, with the exception of the influenza vaccine. DTaP, polio and Hib vaccines have not contained this preservative since 1997-98. The MMR vaccine used in Canada has never contained thimerosal. 

My neighbours son had encephalitis during a bout of mumps he was vaccinated and both his parents are doctors.

 

He was ill for a very long time and never fully recovered. Very sad and just goes to show that being vaccinated isnt a 100% guarantee.

 

 

That's so sad.

 

Yes, there are failures in vaccines and that is another reason why we need to keep the 'herd immunity' as near to 100% as possible. Some kids can't have it and for some it doesn't work, so the less chance there is of those coming in to contact with the diseases the better.

As an aside _ Blizzie,nice to see you - purleeese stick around I really miss you on here  Place just aint the same without you.