Has she made it known to you that it upsets her? For example, one of my sons wanted to become a Sith and go to the 'dark side' for a while...but we just let him carry on with it...sorry it still makes me laugh 

*deletes post* Sod it, you obviously aren't interested in what I have to say.

I think you have said more than enough.

One thing about religious education that I would just like touch on, is the fact that it teaches multiple faiths, not just one. There is a massive difference between teaching and preaching. I don't think it is fair to associate RE with being forceful. At least not in this day of age.

At the end of the day, there can be preaching from both sides. From Religious types and from atheists. In my experience, both can be as bad as each other. Some atheists feel hell bent on openly denouncing the existence of a god and in attempting to force their opinion onto religious people. The same can be said for some religious types. That's just the way it is unfortunately.

Personally, I dislike preaching. I think it is far healthier to learn and then make a decision for yourself. I don't like all this "God doesn't exist! Why can't you see it?! Science says you're wrong! I'm right!" business. The same applies to the other end of the spectrum. Which is why I feel that Dave came across very well in expressing his views, without sounding preachy or forceful. He remained respectful and spoke only of his own perspective.

I don't - I think she's free to say as much as she likes and if you don't approve, tough! Don't read or reply to her posts if they offend you that much

I don't think we should have to accept that we have an established (i.e. state) church in this country and if I sent my child to a non religious school, I would not want anything apart from RE lessons, which should teach facts about religions, not facts about God, or gods.

I have nothing against religious people (I used to be one myself), but I do have a problem with those who decide to accept teachings which, to me, are obviously immoral, without questioning how those teachings came to be in their 'good book' and why those teachings have survived all the reinterpretations that these books have gone through, when other, obviously immoral, or ridiculous, teachings ahve gone by the wayside.

It's all very well saying, "Hate the sin, love the sinner", but you are still calling them a sinner.

That's a useful point of debate. I remember you, you felt entitled to call my wife "Mrs Dim" . That was very adult of you too.

It's funny you should mention that, because in times of frustration when I see wrong doing (or see it in myself) that saying brings me out of any anger or intolerance and reminds me that a Human has committed an act (that I may find distasteful) and that I am fully capable of myself. This in turn leads to a sort of acceptance, then to some form of forgiveness and I truly believe that a loving God would view us all the same. That's my take on it anyway. I see it as a form of unconditional love 

This is a stirring and very interesting debate, and I take points from both sides of it.
However, I take isssue with the Voltaire quote as he goes on to say that religion is a form of social control(which it was in 18thC France) and God would have been 'invented' to keep women and servants in their place. To me, that has always been my problem with any organised religion...human dictats and dogmas aimed at keeping their respective congregations in line and increasing the power of the various churches.

As a result, although not an atheist, I am spiritual and I have my own beliefs which I won't expound.

I think this post says more about you tbh.

On a lighter note, the Civil Partnership Bill/ same sex marraige is up for discussion in our Dail today (Irish Parliment) so perhaps we'll see every human being affoded the right to marraige in Ireland. I live in hope

so where exactly can we find this loving God?  I've read the Bible back to front and I can't find him

All I can find is story upon story about a psychopathic egomaniac nutter who kills, burns and maims thousands on a whim, whether men, women, chidren, sometimes for the most trivial of thing

It's his sense of humour.

Taking offence over a remark I made months ago - in which all I did was refer to your other half "Mrs" plus the name you post under, says a whole lot more about you.

Hope the bill goes through!

Thanks Leccy Me too

That would be great

That's fine, but the problem comes when people still see homosexuality as a sin. There is plenty of evidence that it is not a choice, but how someone is, and yet they are expected to live celibate lives, or to live a lie in a heterosexual relationship.

I would read it all the way through tonight, just incase they are lying.

Many nasty digs going round. Have you read the bible on that one

Spot on! This "sin" that they hate is an integral part of who I am. It's exactly like hating the colour of my skin.

God hates figs!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/f...t-72157614979271411/

The cursed fig!

Noooo. mention not the sacred fig! Do you remember when I got banned on C4 for arguing with that nutter who hated gays and kept quoting the bible?
It was a fig related comment that got me banned

Poor Veggie

Maybe you should have mentioned that God hates shrimps?

http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

Whoo Lecs, am I glad that I'm vegan and eat not of the abominations

Hope it goes through Fairfax, I've had this discussion so many times with a good friend of mine, she's a Christian...I'm afraid we've agreed to disagree. I've even read Rowan Williams views on the matter and a great interview by Reverend Cheri DiNoivo and will she read it...no. Seems some have a mindset and will not consider any other opinion 

Cheers Dame Ann will keep you all posted

I don't know. I found him, but I'm not you 

Well they will have to answer for themselves, and Peter Cat people were/are hated for the colour of their skin and some even use Biblical justification. White Supremacists all over the world are still peddling that angle. The Bible is a book about human beings and there is a lot that still relates today. I agree that people can cherry pick whatever they want to justify whatever agenda they have...but the same can be said about other books like eg. Plato's Republic.
Kaytee, thanks for the historical context to Voltaire's quote, the French were very good at complex philosophical ideas...Voltaire, Descartes and Rousseau can be interpreted in a multitude of ways.

Yes, I knew of that too, suzybean. The trouble is, as I know you're aware, that the Bible can be used to justify many points of view and many of those are diametically opposed to each other. All I was saying was that I won't let some Christians get away with the "love the sinner, hate the sin" thing, because if you're on the receiving end then it all amounts to prejudice. I prefer people who are honest enough to admit their bigotry.

Well then it depends on what you define as a sin. I don't view homosexuality as a sin. Like I said bigots can be found in all walks of life, even homosexual ones. My non-religious brother freely admits to finding the whole idea of homosexuality repulsive, and that is not based on Scripture or reason. I still manage to love him and find his views almost sinful 

I know I'm late to this party, but I'd just like to remind you all that you are free to disagree with each other (which you do admirably ), but please do it without personal attacks or disrespect towards each other.  Just because you've tacked a smiley onto your comment doesn't make it nice.

I think we're mainly in agreement, suzybean, except that we don't share the same faith which is fair enough.

Absolutely Peter Cat 

You can't beat a Good Book.

Yeah I said it, and what?

Where has it gone sooozy? Repost it if you wish