WOW! It sounds like the Big Brother House

I do hope that you are not suggesting I was ramming my my non-beliefs down anybodies throat.

Well thank you very much Vicar....I have always known this, of course, but ever since I have walked a humble path I am not inclined to declare this 
Sooozywoo, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried! But surely I am not the only one to feel this way!!!! (that's one of your sayings and you can put that in your pipe and smoke it you judgemental old bat) I wish you peace 

Blimey Suzy I know loads of people that practice that religion


Seriously I don't care whether people believe or don't believe in any particular religion or philosophy as long as they don't use it to justify cruelty to others.
My belief system starts with ' First, do no harm'
I don't always stick to it, mind

Petercat, the one and main thing about you is that you most certainly are judgemental, you seem to have issues with those who aren't like you.

Did I say you were? I think if you read back I said some atheists. Looks like you may have recognised yourself though because you had to comment on it? Who knows?

He's alright now though veggie. Since I became a Christian I find it easier to forgive him.  
Seriously, he's the baby of the family and got a little too indulged and grew up telling me and my older bros. what to do and what to think....but we love him  Funnily enough, even though he follows no organised religion, he is the most intolerant and almost homophobic one of all my siblings...now that's ironic 

I've never seen PC be like that with anyone Videostar *shrugs*

I'm quite intolerant of Tottenham fans though  

Takes all sorts eh Suzy! The older I get the more perplexing I find people.
I shall be a mad old laydee who preserves her sanity by only talking to her cats

I was simply saying that you're family sounds like a melting pot .........and all good. Wasn't meant to be offensive.

That God is a bit of a card.


 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor..._canada/10331358.stm

Awww, Videostar doesn't get my humour. *weeps into frilly hanky*

Touchy subject. I think so long as both sides are respectful of one another, it's all good. A marriage under god is obviously a religious affair, so it stands to reason that a deeply religious person like Dave (someone who knows of his God's commandments, and has faith in the bible and in his religious beliefs) would feel against religious marriages between homosexuals. In a religious person's view, it is contradictory to what the bible teaches. It is not really for anybody to say "Well no, you're wrong. God wouldn't mind. Trust me".

I personally think that Dave explained his reasons to Josie perfectly well. He was respectful in his delivery of his views, and he didn't come across as bitter or preachy.

I am not a religious person and my motto is "to each their own" (people should be allowed to find comfort in whatever they please), but at the same time I can understand WHY some religious people would feel against something that is, according to their teachings, wrong. To marry two homosexuals would jeopardize his faith, and losing favour with God, I would guess, is not justifiable.

I can't remember the housemate's name now (Mikey possibly, but not the rubbish blind comedian) he was the one who "became a Muslim" because he disagreed with the Iraq war.  I can't help thinking Dave's religion is just attention seeking.  How can you get 'high on' Jesus anyway?  It's not as if the New Testament has different words in it every time you read it.

I take it you've never seen the book of Mormon then.

No need to apologise for that.

Wow this thread is really interesting! I have an O Level in RE and I never knew about all the raping and incest and stuff!

But what about all the gay Christians who have to live a lie and are told that they are sinners, just because church leaders have decided that they will not disregard those parts of the Bible, even though many, many other parts are ignored?

It's just that when one wanders into the happy aftermath of a debate and congratulates ONE SIDE on their maturity and debating that the other side, especially when it's the side that you personally disagree with, tend to feel that there would be a reason that you have left things unsaid.  I didn't recognise myself which is why I felt the need to comment on it so your suggestion is a little uncalled for.

Some Atheists may shove things down your throat but at the moment at school I have a teacher who has just taught my child a song about how great god is when we have clearly stated in a letter to the school that we do not wish her to be taught songs like that.  She is taught bible stories and has a preacher come to the school, and this is not even a C of E school.  The environment tries to teach my child god in the context of a fact when we try to teach her god in the context of a belief.

I have already mentioned earlier in the debate that Dave is getting preferential treatment in the house and in the Cumbria shootings for some reason the church felt the need to comment when it had nothing to do with them.  A couple of atheists may and try and shove it down your throat but try looking at it from the other side and do as you would be done by.

What an interesting thread!


I agree with the OP - there are many people who hide their homophobia behind their faith, claiming that Jesus or Mohammad or the Wicked Witch of the East says it is wrong.  Since I have never studied Islam or witchery, I can't really comment on those faiths, but I do wonder about the Christians who claim homosexuality is against Christ's teachings.


When I was growing up, back in the middle ages, at Sunday School we were taught to emualte Christ and try to live a life he would be proud of.  That included not judging others and being tolerant of differences.  And to love each other.

You've just got to laugh at the "atheists shoving things down the throat" comments.  As your example illustrates, compared to the persistent brain washing programmes from cradle to grave that are perpetrated by the religious in our communities, the mouthiest of atheists is but a drop in the ocean

For what it's worth (probably nothing), I though Suzy and LLF both debated their differing positions in a good natured, reasonable and mature way.

Yogi, I tried I must admit I have never been accused of shoving it down someones throat before but I guess if you freely express a view that is contrary to the norm then at some point it's going to happen.

Seriously LLF, I found your debate with Suzy to be very interesting and I thought you both gave your differing opinions, without being rude or agressive.

Me too, I've really enjoyed reading this thread... both sides have put their points across well

How was it un-called for I wasn't actually adressing you but you obviously felt the "need" to comment and then comment further.

By the same token I could say your commenting on it was also uncalled for because I was addressing my post to suzybean and not to you.

As for the essay about the school, what has that to do with me exactly?

Thanks  I also felt that LLF gave a compelling and passionate case. There's no point falling out with someone on something that neither side can categorically prove nor disprove. LLF is polite because she probably respects other's choices, and seeing as we both believe that faith is a choice and we all possess free will then there isn't much left to argue about. No one dragged me in to Church kicking and screaming (well not when I was an adult anyway) so I'm not going to convince anybody to be like me either. One of my favourite sayings is ....'I'd rather see a sermon than hear one any day...I'd rather someone walk with me than merely tell the way'.....

I absolutely agree. Maybe she should have left it at that.

You could always apologise for any misunderstanding Rev. It's entirely your choice of course 

Really? I'm afraid I can't agree ....how I got dragged into it with a nasty dig I simply have no idea.

You bring out the worst in me sooozy 

You said the comment on a public forum where both people were going to read it.  If it was unintentional then fair enough but the fact that you complimented one viewpoint and then made a negative comment about the other position, if not about me specifically, then as I am reading then I am probably going to be a little offended by that as that is your only expression of opinion about my viewpoint and therefore I am likely to read into that as being your opinion of me.  I am not fishing for compliments from you but all it would have taken was a comment that the picture you were painting did not include our debate but you chose not to do that.

The 'essay' of one entire paragraph about what has happened at school to my child is an expression of my thinking that it's a bit rich to complain about atheists ramming their views down your throat when atheists have to put up with that constantly. Other people have agreed with me and if you don't 'get' that then that's fine but if you are going to tar me with the brush of other atheists actions then you have to prepared to understand that atheists have a rather large bug bear about how some christians assume that everyone should be subjected to their beliefs almost constantly.

Suzy

One of the best debates I have ever read on this forum.BRILLIANT

suzy and LLF - two master debaters  

Just Christians? I imagine that other faiths can be just as uncompromising

As I have some knowledge about world films, I find it interesting that possibly the most authentic film of Jesus' life "The Gospel According to St Matthew" (1964) was directed by Pier Paoli Pasolini. Pasolini was a homosexual atheist. Some of his later films such as The Decameron and The Canterbury Tales however would cause some outrage at their views on religion and sexuality, but they are thoroughly entertaining as long as you are prepared to accept that they are very very rude, and definitely for adults only.

LLF, I'm sure that you appreciate that the UK is a state where Church and Constitution are merged. If I moved my family to Saudi Arabia, I would have to expect that my children would be receiving an Islamic education. There's nothing wrong (IMO) with children experiencing some taste of religion at school so they can make their own minds up when their own opinions are forming. With all due respect, isn't that kind of imposing your view on them if you chose to opt out of them taking part in any religious activity or assembly with their cohorts? The same way you found your path, your children will find their own...no matter what the school does, what you as a parent say or believe, or what any institution tells them is right or proper.

Really? I get called out for something I didn't say....................

I opt her out of collective worship but I let her do RE as I do think she should learn about people's beliefs and culture even though they aren't some that we share, it's just when they teach her to cant 'god is great' without any sort of questioning when we don't even believe in god is a bit off.  If we are to treat people's beliefs with respect and they want to teach her to do that then they should treat our beliefs with equal respect.