I enjoy a good contentious thread ................I think we all do TBH  - otherwise why would we reply?

Talk of reporting PP is rather silly ..............she can post whatever she wants as long as it doesn't get nasty! This forum has been a tad dull of late and here we have a lively six pager.

Keep em coming Hevva! There's room for everyone on here - it's not a pre requisite that we all agree is it?

He does have savings, but after a few months he would have wiped his savings paying back the mortgage. What would be the point of selling up when the family would have to move to another house anyway, wither that or rent, which would be putting money in another man's pocket money that wouldn't be far off the rate of the mortgage itself. Would it be feasible to just shift a young family potentially from their schools?

Go Soozy

He does have savings, but after a few months he would have wiped his savings paying back the mortgage. What would be the point of selling up when the family would have to move to another house anyway, wither that or rent, which would be putting money in another man's pocket money that wouldn't be far off the rate of the mortgage itself. Would it be feasible to just shift a young family potentially from their schools?

Needs must - changing schools is surely better than being homeless.  You move to a cheaper house - resulting in capital behind him to pay the mortgage on the new house.  It's not great but there are times in life when everyone has to make sacrifices.

But what if he was just keeping his head above water providing for his family with that and didn't have much to spare 

the problem with this is firstly the Government cap the amount they pay for mortgages and any shortfall has to be picked up by the mortgagee.  If the mortgage is hypothetically as Riverock suggests around £400 pm, then only about a third approximately will be paid so the mortgage payments will still be quite high.

As we are experiencing a depressed housing market, selling properties is really hard.  If you can sell, you are lucky to get market value.  Most people are within the last few months, experiencing negative equity whereby the property sells well below what you have paid therefore you are again left with the deficit and the Government offers no assistance for that!

I know Saz, we keep trying 

Ref: PP
He could also look towards selling the house - though obv this could take time.

Hevva, statements like this are the reason so many fms have problems with you I think. Factually you are correct with that statement but honestly! If the man sells his house (always assuming anyone wants to buy it - and he isn't in negative equity) then he will still have to live somewhere. Would you honestly want to sell your home because of circumstances that aren't your fault? Moving home is one of the most stressful life experiences, even more so when you are forced out and your dreams go up in smoke.

You are an intelligent person, keen on current affairs and I think that the forum is better for you being here but you seem to have zero compassion or empathy for anyone. I truly hope that you never find yourself in any of the situations that some people find themselves in and that you find so undeserving of sympathy

Not too many places you would get a mortgage rate lower then £400.

But what if he was just keeping his head above water providing for his family with that and didn't have much to spare 

Then that for me is living beyond his means - earning £40k and not able to save anything is pretty bad imo.

No, it's other expenses and government/other people wringing the most out of him

Hevva you really do talk a good text book. Once you're out there in the 'real world' trying to keep food on the table, a roof over your head and paying utility bills also with dependents then come back and tell us how to do it.

Text book economics really doesn't do it for those in the 'real world'.

In my case study I said that he had put money away, however it would be quickly ate up after a few months.  There was no imminent shortfall warnings for the construction industry so how were people to know any different?

Hevva, statements like this are the reason so many fms have problems with you I think. Factually you are correct with that statement but honestly! If the man sells his house (always assuming anyone wants to buy it - and he isn't in negative equity) then he will still have to live somewhere. Would you honestly want to sell your home because of circumstances that aren't your fault? Moving home is one of the most stressful life experiences, even more so when you are forced out and your dreams go up in smoke.

You are an intelligent person, keen on current affairs and I think that the forum is better for you being here but you seem to have zero compassion or empathy for anyone. I truly hope that you never find yourself in any of the situations that some people find themselves in and that you find so undeserving of sympathy

It's called life Veg - obv he probably wouldn't want to however we all have to do things we don't want to.  No it's not nice and sure anyone would be sympathetic but surely selling his house is better than losing it and ending up on the streets.  Life is not a bed of roses unfortunately - I don't particulalrly want to go to work in the morning but I have to.
 My post you quoted was one of facts so how you can say I have no empathy is beyond me - no it's not nice but I am a realist and if someone asks me a question I will answer it - what I was supposed to say instead god only knows.

All this talk of selling his house and moving on. 2 years before the Construction industry crashed property prices were already being affected, with more people expanding their homes as opposed to selling up and moving, mainly because the affect of the American sub-prime market was starting to have ripple effects in the UK. (late 2006 -2007). By the time the industry crashed, most properties were in negative equity, some houses had reduced in value by nearly 80k in some parts, so for a person to try and sell a house in those conditions was near enough impossible. Your idealism of this guy being able to just sell his house is totally unrealistic.

Also Council waiting lists were bad enough but when people started losing their homes it went off the scale, people were in B&B's or hostels, and that was mainly families. Some single occupants ended up homeless.

As for savings, most people used their savings to try and hold on to their homes in the hope they would find alternate work. People who had savings over a certain amount were not entitled to any help from the Government either.

But bare facts don't take into account how they will impact on real human beings. We can all be dispassionate when the situation doesn't affect us personally. I think one of the marks of a humane person is to care about a situation when we have nothing to lose/gain ourselves.
I say your posts lack empathy because that is how they come across. You could show a bit more feeling for the straits people find themselves in. I think you do get a lot of negativity now on here aimed at you (rightly or wrongly) but I remember when you used to get a lot of helpful practical advice when you were posting that you were ill or having a hard time with your degree etc. Fms were kind and supportive towards you for no other reason than it is a decent way to behave.

Hello I am new to this forum and I haven't read every page on this topic but the rise in vat is not as simplistic and clear cut as the writer of this thread thinks.  Yes it may only be 2.5p in the pound on goods we are buying direct but then you have the added costs of the extra vat on the fuel which hauliers pass on to their customers and we as the general public are their customers so the ripple starts there and will then go on and on so it really is not just a case of 2.5p in every pound it will in reality be a lot more than that.



Very strange to me that anyone believes that people are moaning only for 2.5p in the pound, maybe the writer should have taken business studies at college, maybe then she could grasp the bigger economic picture!

The point you are avoiding PP is that the house he is currently in is pretty much the lowest mortgage for a house that he needs so wheres he supposed to move to a garden shed?

You sound as if you really know that. I know that you have no debt and live within your means ..........good on you but ............have you ever experienced hardship for reasons out of your control?

If someone has a modest mortgage because they're on a modest income - what happens if they're made redundant in an area of high unemployment? The cliche 'bed of roses' says it all ..............some people never, ever live on a bed of roses but just about manage - then when the shite hits the fan their lives are turned upside down. Until you have taken on 'proper adult responsibilities' like home and family I really don't think you are qualified to comment. You're a young girl who (I imagine) has not faced real hardship. I grew up in real hardship - my circumstances (so far) are far better now but it's not always easy and I'd never take it for granted. Who knows what's round the corner for all of us?

I think you really are showing a complete lack of understanding and empathy .............not everyone has new kitchens, conservatories and two holidays a year. Many, many people live from day to day .........savings are something they dream of.  I'm not criticising your youthful ideals - I'm just saying that life really isn't all about what you read in the text books in your economics class.

Great post. A sympathetic ear costs nothing!

Careful now you may be deemed as 'picking on' or 'attacking' PP with that sort of statement!

Hello Freespirit, and welcome. 

Hello FreeSpirit! Welcome to bedlam


She wont answer me, but it seems that Hevva is under the impression that people should have saved/tried harder, when I do wonder if she knows anyone or worked alongside anyone who suffered due to that recession. Anyone I know did their absolute best to keep a roof over their heads and were willing to take ANY job going, but there weren't any. Approximately 180 candidates for every job circa 22k per annum at one stage, it certainly was no picnic or down to idleness or pride as to why people suffered. Money families set aside for a rainy day was being used just to survive. And it wasn't just down to people taking advantage of an easy credit market either. These were people who DID live within their means, but circumstances meant their income drastically reduced but their means didn't, and that's just essential basics.

(Unless of course you expect people to go without heat, hot water, light and cooking facilities)

If anybody could think my part in this discussion could be deemed as picking on or attacking PP -oh well!    When you talk about things you dont fully understand it's very easy for someone that has a better grasp of things to look like they are picking on or attacking the person that has started a thread.



Just to be clear though as none of you know me yet, absolutely not picking on or attacking anybody xx



Also to make one other point, whilst I am financially extremely secure I have the ability to empathize with people in a less fortunate financial position than myself.

 if my memory serves me correct didn't Hevva claim to be studying accountancy/finances,surely if this were the case they would be well aware the negative impact the 2.5% VAT increase would have on many folk.

Thank you Brisket and Karma for the welcome x

No Lee, because they are taught the Milton Keynes Laissez faire crap, which only works for the rich.  

Sorry Col can't seem to quote,any road I wonder if the University of Life has any available placements.

Hi Lee

Only for those that really want to be in it Lee  

At least the University of Life doesn't have any bliddy tuition fees 

What do you think PP, should the University of Life have tuition fees? I mean we can't have people walking around breathing in free air willy nilly can we?

Quite Lee (can't quote either in IE). I agree though, we go on about the places at University, but I think we need good old fashioned apprentices, not the Alan Sugar once mind.

Sorry can't quote,Hi River Rock and Bean....I've had an idea,if by chance the University of life isn't an option at the moment perhaps the good old school of hard knocks can oblige....Cologne you blasphemed,you dared mention the forbidden word old in the presence of certain folk,

A little poem to lighten the mood. 

Cameron and Clegg, kissing in a tree. They finally got it on, out popped pretty p.

Noooo prom, you turning her into a hero.

Lee, I forgot myself, (((bows and scrapes))).

Hi Lee    Ummmmm, I'm not so sure but............. 

Anyways, allthough I'm on holiday tomorrow but have to get up early,  otherwise I would be working to cover my VAT rise I'll bid you all goodnight 

Night Pam, I wont be far behind you.