Well it is really cos it has to find extra money (or not) that should be sitting in the coffers for things that everyone needs not just those on benefits!

lol @ tax evasion, sorry *cough* avoidance, not costing the country money. 

You have a point there.. difficult to compare those who steal millions at a time from the tax coffers with benefits claimants .

Some plan to be on the dole forever. As I said earlier it's like a career choice. We can all say different depending on the areas that we live in but the truth is there are people on benefits in this country who don't need them. People who know chapter and verse what they're entitled to if they don't work. There are also the people who know about it and say nothing. Who's worse? 

There are plenty of jobs out there......just happens to be jobs that most Brits deem beneath them. Cleaning etc.  These are the jobs that foreigners take and then we vilify them for it.

Well said Joe.Alas we have the Murdoch empire etc spewing out Tory propagada at an acelerated rate now.Oh and Tory "advisers" etc with offshore accounts,tax free etc .Yes there are fraudsters ,but  they are  at all levels.
I hate going into personal details so,I'll be brief,my late brother worked all his life as a hot metal plate compositor in the printing industry.This before comps etc.The printing industry has changed so much etc .He had a stroke over twenty years ago,it left him disabled,he did not admit how much to the "authorities" pride and all that.He could no longer write freehand..only print,it left one side of his body weakened,bad leg and arm.

He died four years ago aged 53.Now I will say "new Labour" started to bring in "assesments",they took him off incapacity benefit and stated he could do certain work.This was the usual "training" flipping phone calls and working on a comp.

I'd kick all government arseholes into touch!

I agree cags, but it's been like that as far as I can remember back. In Germany, the government brought in people from Italy and Turkey as cheap labour for the jobs the Germans felt were beneath them. Now they have the third generation of Italians and Turkish people who are on the dole, have been for years and creating mary hell. When I visited my brother last year I saw it first hand, no different from London or any of the other bigger cities in this country. We are paying the price of macro economics gone wrong years ago. .

Oh forgot to mention he was a widower bringing up a daughter since she was two when her mum died.My niece who I often mention. She's 23 now.

That is very true.

So who are we to complain? (that's not directed at just you...it's all of us)

I've heard it so many times everywhere I go....high street shops, restaurants etc is all foreigners. Ask the same people if they'd work there and they'd say no because the pay is crap. Who's gonna do it then? We all expect people to serve us in shops

It's not foreigners we need to worry about it's born and bred British people with a lazy attitude to life who sit on the dole and have a better  life than most hard working people.

Now I know it probs wouldn't have made much difference for him if pride prevented him from telling the authorities everything - but just imagining he did wouldn't it be a much better system if the so called "pot" was shared between a smaller group of people with circumstance like his rather than across a larger group of people which includes a great proportion whose only problem is laziness.

I don't want to be contrary, but I think after everything is said and done, we have always been at the mercy of the people that rule, here and everywhere in the world. Unless you are a mover and shaker, you have no input other than be told that you have to keep your nose to the grindstone, get on your bike, root up your family, all for the sake of the overall economy. Ireland is on the verge of bancruptcy, is that really the fault of the plebs (and I'm saying that sarcastically) or is it the gamble they took when they joined the Euro? We have no say, some people vote, but most people are resigned to the fact that nothing will ever change.

I still question your facts PP that the "Great proportion" are lying etc. Don't believe all you read,that's all I'm saying.We really are heading towards darker times.Old fok etc with barely basic care etc."Brave new world" indeed.

Cleaning,shop jobs etc pay the minimum wages for long hours. I don't think that for one minute it is because Brits think it "beneath" them.
More likely because  they cannot afford to live on them as Britain has one of the highest cost of living's in the world.

Clearing £20k (a year), mobilty TT and three en-suites.

It's who you know  

But foreign people are coming over and they are doing those jobs so surely it must be providing a living wage for them.  I think the real problem is that most British people know that they can probably get more money on benefits so why bother - that needs to change.

Is that because British people can't afford to live or can't afford to live the life of "luxury"? We may have one of the highest costs of living in the world but what are we classing as "living"? 50' tvs, games consoles, cars etc. None of those are essential. Food and a roof over your head are. Everyone wants to have more, better but it's not essential. This leads to debt. Why do people live outside their means?

Those who come and work in our country often come over with nothing and stay with family members who are already here. People who have been made unemployed often have a mortgage and family to support.
I think it is extremely judgemental to say that British people do not want the jobs - maybe a minority don't . But the majority do want to work and want to support their family.

Well now, lets ask the last government that - they were the ones who encouraged these ridiculously high mortgages that people took out.

Its all a culmination of all sorts of things I'm afraid.

A lot of foreign workers are totally exploited by "Gang Masters" especially in the rural economy,on farms etc washing and picking our veg.A few generations ago it was Irish,Portugeuse workers etc that did the work.Now they use Eastern European workers,often they are living in appalling housing ec,crammed into huts.Many farm owners won't have most of them registered or paying insurance or tax for them.Well they want the profits etc.
The same farmers that probably moan about scroungers etc when they are the next "Hunt" meeting etc.

The chinese cockle pickers spring to mind...

Encouraged but not forced. I know it's a huge amount of things but what we were saying was there are a lot of British people who are workshy and can "earn" more on benefits. It's obvious to anyone who wants to see it.

My post looks stupid now 

I was talking about mortgages

No, you are fine and yes you do have a point

Oh and we do have slavery in this country too,poor migrant workers in the sex trade and sweatshops etc.All this is part of the black economy,that barely gets a mention in the gutter tabloids.

there was a programme a few months ago where I think it was Ch4 got some people a job - factory, Indian Restaurant and one job offered was on an asparagus farm.

On the farm, they had mainly had Polish workers who were used to this back breaking work and because they'd been doing it for many years were quite proficient.  They were paid by the weight of how much asparagus they had picked.  The English people they introduced to this work were obviously slower and couldn't pick as much.  The end result was the farmer ended up having to pay the English workers more to ensure their wage came to that of the minimum wage so he said he wouldn't employ English workers as they are too expensive!

If you're not used to manual working it takes a while to adjust and this showed that Farmers were only interested in profit and they'd only get that if they employed foreigners used to outdoor working.  The English people honestly wanted to work in this job.

It did also show a young lad who couldn't be bothered to get up for the job he'd had organised for him as he preferred to sleep late and play with his Xbox!

Well a few weeks ago we had Eastern Europen children picking Spring Onions etc on British farms,with inadequate clothing for the weather...well they are poor so they must be grateful for the work.

Isn't this the same with builders? The firms pay the poles less

Yep   they do it because they know they can get away with it.  Exploitation doesn't prejudice on the basis of ethnicity or nationality 

Worcestershire - some of the kiddies were as young as 9 and the oldest 15 

Right I'm leaving this thread or I may blow my top!

Not at all, cags.

Have I said something to upset you Katty???  

I don't get this. Why would it take longer to adjust? Not everyone is born a manual labourer. Those with the stamina to do the work will do it if they have to. If it means putting a roof over their head they'll meet the standards required. English, Polish blah blah blah. If needs must you do the work to make ends meet. Why were the English people slower?

I went tattie picking when I was a kid. I loved it apart from the forky tails 

I am sure it is more the subject of exploitation Pengy - not you personally. xx

I went tattie picking a few months after I first came to Scotland and just had a baby. They both had to be with me, (0 and 2.5) because my husband was working as a stocksman on a farm. That was the worst time of my life, bar none.

If I offer you a job tomorrow asparagus picking which you've never done before along with Isadora who has lots of experience of doing this for years, which of you will be better and quicker at the job?  isadora obviously because she's used to manual labour.  Over time you would get quicker but my point was that farmers won't wait long enough for that to happen.  You'd be sacked long before you'd get used to doing manual labour.  Stamina is built over time you aren't born with it.

Hope that explains things more

Oh Lord no Pengy...I'm just not going to rant on anymore.Nothing to do with you at all.

   that's OK then I don't like to upset people